Open 570: Making Friends and Enemies (Mafia Wins!)

[Wisdom]

Maybe they weren't masons with npiup, but they could be masons with someone else.

Dave already explained his though process well enough and he doesn't need to go any further.

Move on.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Just to clarify, his read on a Mason is not independent. It was reliant upon NPAU being Mason, which he obviously wasn't.

[davesaz]

He really does not have to do that. And we should avoid talking about who might be a mason in general.

Yeah, he does. He was wrong, whoever he thought was Mason

with

NPAU is obviously not so there is no reason not to explain his thought process behind that read.

I'm not asking him to out a Mason. I'm asking him to explain how he came to an incorrect read on somebody being Mason

with

NPAU.

If the person who was not Mason with NPAU is still mason, talking about the reasons I thought that person was mason with NPAU would out their role.

I know you're not this dense. Your play has otherwise been very strong, both in this game and the completed newbie game. Therefore you're trying to get me to identify one of the masons for you, while still espousing the belief that outing them is bad.

VOTE: BBT

[Wisdom]

Just stop talking about mason read related things...

Pedit: oh ffs. Dave, bbt might be annoying but he's town.

[Huntress]

Yeah, I don't blame him.

Why don't you blame him?

The game seemed really inactive. I like the fact that it's picking up now, though. Idk how you're drawing any conclusions from this.

What conclusions have I drawn from that comment?

What I did point out, and you haven't responded to, is your implication in 1048 that you had been active and everyone else was lurking, whereas you had hardly done anything yourself up till then and almost everyone else had posted as much or more than you had.

What I don't get is why nobody has bothered to look at who Scripten would be dangerous to. Or if you're looking, nobody is saying anything about it.

Have you looked yourself? If so, what did you find? (And if you didn't, why are you expecting others to do it for you?) I think most of us look and at least one person has already got something from it.

@ Josh:

In post 1038 you said that the NPAU wagon set off alarms and that 701 actually seemed townish, but looking back at 758 you said that on play alone, NPAU still appeared scummy. Was your townish read on 701 made later? If not, why not say it at the time?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

If the person who was not Mason with NPAU is still mason, talking about the reasons I thought that person was mason with NPAU would out their role.

I know you're not this dense. Your play has otherwise been very strong, both in this game and the completed newbie game. Therefore you're trying to get me to identify one of the masons for you, while still espousing the belief that outing them is bad.

VOTE: BBT

Tut, tut, tut.

The person who you were reading as Mason was

NOT

an independent read, it was

based

on the

assumption

that NPAU was Mason. Now, we know that NPAU is

NOT

Mason, therefore, your read on who you thought was the Mason becomes invalid because it was

NOT

a stand alone read. The person you were initially reading as Mason can no longer be correct because the connection to NPAU

didn't exist

.

Explain it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can we get some more votes on Dave please.

He is quite clearly lying about his supposed Mason link. He has used that to try and keep himself alive.

Josh & Mala, vote Dave please. Heph can join in as well.

[Wisdom]

That is not happening. Stop it and vote Peabody already

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Stop defending him otherwise I'll be forced to lynch you after he flips scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

In fact, Wisdom, can you explain your town-read on Dave?

[Malakittens]

Wisdom explain to me how you are townreading Heph for me?

[Josh_B]

I said you were trying to fake town conscious.

Ok. BBT, This is kind of reaching. What causes you to think his statements were fake?

[Wisdom]

Nah, I'm lazy. Read his posts without being fixated on the silly things you are and you'll see it

Pedit: sec, I'll explain that one

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Hi Mala,

Vote Dave?

PEdit - Seriously Josh, that's the part you're going to pick out after everything I have said?

If you had an inkling that someone was Mason, even the slightest inkling, would you lynch them? Would you jump back on their wagon?

Vote Dave?

[Wisdom]

Except he already explained that he discarded the thought afterwards and decided he might be scum.

You are acting like you've spotted a huge scumslip while in reality it's nothing. You are ignoring dave's defences even though he makes complete sense. If I didn't know better, I'd call you scum for this, but I know (from myself) that there are stubborn townies who act like this.

Stop it. Move on. Let it go and read the total of dave's play. He's town.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I find it astonishing you think that's all my case on Dave boils down to.

His explanation is nowhere near satisfactory. Please see 1130 for why I am not yet satisfied.

[Malakittens]

BBT right now I'm not confident in leaving my vote anywhere when I barely have stable internet in case a yoloQL appears or some voting shenanigans happen. I'll vote when I'm home in my bed on monday night until then you get unstable internet posts when I can post.

[Wisdom]

I saw it. It doesn't make any sense. It's not relevant if he thought that someone was a Mason on his own or a Mason with npiau. He explained all of his actions and his explanations make sense. You just don't want to let go.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Yes it does make sense.

I want to see what Dave

thought

he saw that made NPAU Mason. That's all I'm asking for this part of my case.

[Wisdom]

@Mala

I like all of hephaestus posts starting with 933. It's a change in tone that tells me that hephaestus had been apathetic and mostly trolling up to that point. There he decides to post a little more seriously and I like how he does it.

Then 944. I like that reaction because it's the same I had while reading uctriton's posts. He voices his immediate thought.

His posts today are again serious and he looks like he wants to get involved again.


I'm not positive on him being town, especially since he looked like scum earlier, but it was enough for me to change my mind and consider the possibility that everything I found scummy could just be bad/apathetic town play.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Wisdom, why won't you explain town-read on Dave?

[Wisdom]

Yes it does make sense.

I want to see what Dave

thought

he saw that made NPAU Mason. That's all I'm asking for this part of my case.

That would involve discussion about who might be a mason. Can you seriously not comprehend that no such discussion should happen?

[Malakittens]

Wisdom can you do me a quick favor especially if you are the meta person type. I *think* you are semi open to it, but can you look at two games of BBT that I have played with.
One is a micro that just completed modded by Micc, the second is a newbie game and it will be one of his first games on site, but i forget the number and the mod off the top of my head.

Can you just read his ISOs and tell me which one you think mirror his current play because I'm really undecided. I feel like part of his current play here might be his scum play, but then sometimes I see a glimmer of similarities of our recent encounter.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, why won't you explain town-read on Dave?

Because I don't need to. You're being stupid and don't want to let go. You will eventually.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Mala. if you're referring to our first game it was Newbie 1495, modded by JacobSavage.

PEdit - I can promise you right now, I will not let this go. Ask Mala.