Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[wgeurts]

Getting something out of RVS is not necciserily a read for any side in my oppinion. I'd call it null.

[Mathdino]

So I was starting to second guess myself, because I honestly didn't think that Newbie was sheeping people. So I actually checked the friggin ISOs, and I found:

I find it weird that wgeurts unlynched wisdom when he started to receive a bit of heat for it.

Newbie was literally the first person to actually display

suspicion

for what you did, rather than simple criticism. She was also the first person to openly say that you unvoted Wisdom due to outside pressure. If anything, everyone else (Silver Wolf, Wisdom) followed HER on that. She voted you based on her own reasoning 3 pages prior. Congrats though trying to BS us on that.

On question #3: I didn't ask you to link any games. But you told us that we should ignore the meta that Newbie provided (which I directly asked for) because she'd be aware of it. Yet you, 2 posts beforehand, told us to look at your meta and then made a point about it.

Consider this, folks: We asked Newbie to provide some past games. She took the time to go find them, but didn't say anything about it. Does this mean that she's aware of her meta? No, just that she's willing to be read by us.
No one asked wgeurts to provide his meta. He took the time to point out his being consistent with other games. Does this mean that he's aware of his meta? Yes, and he's using that as an argument that he's town.

Which meta are you more likely to discount?

[wgeurts]

Dino, it's the fact that Newbie said that, let it drop and only made a push on it once others started to siscuss it that makes it oportunistic.

[wgeurts]

Also, yeah you should ignore meta in general. Even the wiki says 9 times out of 10 it's wrong. Meta is the worst thing to use as a case.

[reinoe]

MOD STUFF

Symbol used by Friends' service organizations since the late 19th century.

VOTE COUNT!!!!

Wisdom-TellTaleHeart (L-6)
DukeC-
wgeurts-VictorDeAngelo, Newbie, mathdino (L-4)
The Undertaker-
Newbie-
Malakittens-
SilverWolf-
Not_Mafia-
TellTaleHeart-blindmewithscience (L-6)
VictorDeAngelo-acryon, Silverwolf (L-4)
Mathdino-Wisdom (L-6)
blindmewithscience-
acryon-malakittens (L-6)

not voting-DukeC, The Undertaker, Not_Mafia,

With 13 Alive it's 7 to lynch.

I fell asleep on the couch. When I woke up, I had a serious case of the munchies!!! Thank God for Jack In The Box. This post had nothing to do with a cruise vacation or friendship but it is based on a touching true story about one man fighting for survival against starvation. It's a story about my wit, $10 in my pocket, and one Kia Spectra vs the world. I think it's a story that could be a number one best seller.
(expired on 2014-10-29 07:00:00)

[wgeurts]

yowza

yowza to you too.

[Not_Mafia]

Sorry for low activity everyone, I haven't read since my last post due to time constraints but I should be able to catch up this evening.

[SilverWolf]

OK, I have not yet played a game with masons in it so excuse my ignorance but I'm not sure where the mason fishing came in. I think this 182 is terrible and doesn't make wgeurts look good at all. However, Mathdino appears to be making a bigger issue out of the Masons being in the game and drawing attention to it, then wgeurts did with his comment from what I can see.

[acryon]

@Acyron:

The problem I had with you answering a question that was for someone else is you could influence their answer. if I'm looking for a certain reaction or someone else is looking for a certain answer and you injecting explaining how you feel automatically removes any intent to do so which isn't something that town should do. In fact you doing that is something scum does in order to protect a scum partner. So yes I hated you doing it because it influenced an answer while giving the feeling you are trying to protect someone.

I definitely agree with you in theory. But in this circumstance, it wasn't exactly an overly-complicated question and there was only one real, and very simple answer. In this case, I don't think what I did stopped any extra information anyway.

Eh. Tbh I feel like scum wouldn't do it so blatantly.

Yes, but the problem is the rest of his posting this game has shown a lot of newb-tells, which means it's hard to say what wgeurts scum would do in that spot, so the WIFOM applies even less. A lot of his posting could be applied to newb-town, newb-scum, and regular scum, which one I am not quite sure yet.

[Wisdom]

I don't see him blatantly stating "Are you a mason" as a newbscum. As regular scum imitating a newbtown maybe.

[acryon]

I don't see him blatantly stating "Are you a mason" as a newbscum. As regular scum imitating a newbtown maybe.

Well certainly. I said "most" of his posting. There are some things he has said that are far more likely to come from one or the other, but I think overall a lot of it could come from any of them.

[Mathdino]

Agree with Wisdom, there's no way noobscum would keep up the act that he did, along with the reaction fishing in RVS. But like I pointed out acryon, he already pretended to be noobtown during the Slayer. He said something that benefits a scum agenda, and I think we're doing exactly what he wants this time: wave it off as just more noobtown.

Did another check by the way, wgeurts changes his story on Newbie again. Here he (implicitly) claims that other people created the reasons Newbie used to vote him, yet here he admits that Newbie did in fact say those reasons first. I should note that Newbie had a total of 1 post between her casting suspicion and her vote; it's incredibly likely Newbie came to the decision to vote him later on after reading his responses to people questioning him. Whether or not Newbie is scum, she's at least being consistent here.

@SilverWolf: "The fact you're saying this shows a weak link woth Newbie, if he flips scum I'll be suspicious of you." And then of course he pointed out that I'm making a point to not deny it because that would basically be a claim. I think he said that specifically to take note of my reaction in the hopes he'd nailed 2 masons off the bat.

And then he lines up my lynch if he's right about Newbie. Seems a bit confident, no? If Newbie IS in fact scum, which I doubt, I'm 90% sure wgeurts is trying to bus her off of shoddy reasoning and then line up lynches on anyone who called him an OMGUSer.

[acryon]

Honestly it is probably a lot more gut than anything for me. I probably shouldn't let that primarily drive me, but I have just seen people like wgeurts lynched so many times for being really scummy when they are actually just newbie(not to be confused with Newbie).

[VictorDeAngelo]

My days are a little in flux right now so I will posting when I can. Technically I could say I'm vla but really I doubt I'm going to be gone more than 24 hours.

Well Newbie, that explains your wallposting, haha. Are there any records left of one of your scum games and town games?

Hey Math, why so keen to get some early meta off Newbie?

I'm not sure what the problem is. I would think getting meta would be sharing useful information. I intend to look at meta of the players here. So even though you said you wanted to know why mathdino wanted that particular info. I guess I fail to see the problem with this and your explanation really didn't help me much. You are making way too much of a simple question as though you are looking for a reason to suspect someone. It's possible you just want to question Mathdino like you said, but this seems an odd thing to question him about. This is something else I am taking note of. FoS VictorDeAngelo

So do a lot of players, but I was wondering why he was looking to get meta off that player so early on. Often people looking for meta in the first few pages would have a particular reason, and I wanted to know his.

Mala looks pretty damn townie off her opening posts. I think I should be able to metaread you fairly well now, so I last long enough I will see if your scum.

I don't like Wguerts 105. This post doesn't fit the play at all.

Nor do I like Wisdom's 108 - particularly since he accused me of reaching and asking loaded questions earlier.

I like both the vote and point from Newbie in 124.

Awful rvs in 127.

@TTH are you really implying in 130 it's a waste time asking for reasoning because if a player is scum they will simply lie or have I misread that?

132 & 134 (this should really be one post anyhow ) Asks to meta read to help players understand his style and then tells everyone to ignore Newbie's meta because "the fact he's provided it probaly means he's aware of it and able to manipulate it."

If Wguerts is scum I can see Silverwolf being scum with him for 135.

Is the reason this game is so many pages because wgeurts is multiposting. Actually wgeuers and Newbie. Any chance we can keep it to one post at a time folks?

Blindmewithscience is sitting back too much with this post. Especially considering it's his only one outside of rvs.

I still like my vote on Wguerts, but I really wish I had a second one for blindmewithscience. Not too sure on anyone else right now. A few players on the list need to show still so we'll see.

And like that - I am gone.

[Wisdom]

Nor do I like Wisdom's 108 - particularly since he accused me of reaching and asking loaded questions earlier.

What is your issue with 108?

[Mathdino]

Mala's 2nd post, Mala's 3rd post, wgeurts's 105, Wisdom's 108, Newbie's 124, wgeurts's 127, TTH's 130, wgeurts's 132, Silver's 135. If you could cite, that'd be great for easy reference

127 isn't RVS. I think you misread 130 but it was a bit rambly so I'll let TTH explain, haha. I think scum nowadays like to distance themselves more than they like to buddy; I doubt Silver-scum would drop the suspicion so quickly at 135 just because of wgeurts's answers. It seems fairly natural town reasoning, IMO.

I like your post, Victor. Making me more confident that wgeurts is scum and not you.

[VictorDeAngelo]

Wisdom, TTH was directly questioned about you and N_M so it's a little rich going after her for discussing you with other players and it's also unfair to accuse a player voting you of not engaging. As for your question, it was far more of a loaded question than the one I asked earlier which you accused of being loaded.

PEdit: Sorry Math, I'm a tad rushed and meant to go back and add post tags. Cheers for helping me out.

[Wisdom]

I define engage as "try to reach out to the other player and attempt to read them". Voting me and talking about me with others doesn't count as engaging.

My point with the question was that the way she did it looked like she was more interested in convincing others I'm scum than actually attempt to read me.

[acryon]

V/LA until Monday morning CST.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH are you really implying in 130 it's a waste time asking for reasoning because if a player is scum they will simply lie or have I misread that?

You misread it only slightly. I'm saying that

for me

it would be a waste of time because it's not going to give me any information of value. If other people think they do best in the "interrogator" role in a conversation, more power to them. I fully acknowledge my weaknesses as a player and that's one of them.

I'm currently working from townreads on Victor, Newbie, mathdino, Silver Wolf, wgeurts, and Malakittens for varying reasons. Everyone else, I'm still in the process of sorting.

[TellTaleHeart]

But since I'm not totally sure on you, might as well ask: Whatcha think of Victor? Whatcha think of wgeurts?

I'm townreading Victor for a couple reasons. The most important one is that I think he received a considerable amount of criticism for somewhat superficial reasons from some questionable corners to begin the day, which wouldn't seem to be indicative of someone who has allies (i.e. scum). Others are just gut feelings I get from the tone of his posts and I can't explain well.

I'm also townreading wgeurts, mostly because of the way he's pushing Newbie, which is probably best summarized in post 127. The "

Gotcha'

" tone of that post and other subsequent posts seem indicative of someone who sincerely think he's caught scum.

[Mathdino]

Request replacement for DukeC; he's already been replaced out of some other games.

TTH, not having supporters definitely doesn't make you town. Scum in general is very very keen to bus and distance themselves from each other, especially if someone slips.

Also, I'm guessing you have no thoughts on the rest of wgeurts's posts? (shamelessly asking for your thoughts on my analysis turned case)

[Malakittens]

Be here in a btit

[Malakittens]

In post 158, Malakittens wrote:
@Acyron:

The problem I had with you answering a question that was for someone else is you could influence their answer. if I'm looking for a certain reaction or someone else is looking for a certain answer and you injecting explaining how you feel automatically removes any intent to do so which isn't something that town should do. In fact you doing that is something scum does in order to protect a scum partner. So yes I hated you doing it because it influenced an answer while giving the feeling you are trying to protect someone.

I definitely agree with you in theory. But in this circumstance, it wasn't exactly an overly-complicated question and there was only one real, and very simple answer. In this case, I don't think what I did stopped any extra information anyway.

Still, but I just rather you not.

[Malakittens]

Also, yeah you should ignore meta in general. Even the wiki says 9 times out of 10 it's wrong. Meta is the worst thing to use as a case.

Um no. Actually meta is not the worst thing to use in a case.