NY 177: Simple Complexity (GAME OVER: Scum Wins!)

[House]

Investigation immune?

Yes.

[Pine]

After sleeping on it, I have to walk back my no ii's statement just a bit. I don't think we are dealing with a Godfather situation but I feel there's a good chance the SK is ii. My newb gut feeling is having two roles that are ii is a bit too favorable to the dark side.

Hmm. I'm very seriously considering whether this is a newbie scumslip. Here, Skybird is taking it as a given that there's no Godfather on the scum team, something that Town has hotly debated and is trying to figure out. I'm not seeing a good reason for Skybird to assume otherwise.

I'm also thinking that if there's scum between {Psyche, Marquis} it's Psyche. Fakeclaiming Masons with a Townie is practically suicide from a scum perspective, but a plausible (if asinine) Town gambit. Psyche's waffling on confirming or denying the Mason claim looks scummy to me in light of recent revelations. It looks like a deer in the headlights "Oh shit what do I do here, is this a trap?" response.

At this point, biggest suspects are PV, Psyche, Skybird. House also feels

off

to me, but that could just be the awkward middle experience point he's at. Would be good with any of those three lynches today, House and Gameplay on the back burner depending on flips

[Psyche]

well yeah i was wondering if it was a trap
this dude claimed masons with me
and we weren't masons

[gameplay506]

Didnt you claim masons with him?
Also if you werent masons why didnt you say anythig

[Pine]

Yeah, but Town wouldn't be worried about that trap. They've got zero to lose by just saying "Nope, not masons, wtf are you talking about?"

It's not a trap to Town

Vote: Psyche

[Psyche]

it seemed like a new and exciting opportunity
and made it easier to prevent my lynch
i really do hope i get replaced soon
i haven't had enough time/energy for this game for months

[Psyche]

Yeah, but Town wouldn't be worried about that trap. They've got zero to lose by just saying "Nope, not masons, wtf are you talking about?"

It's not a trap to Town

Vote: Psyche

that's moon logic, man

no one has anything to

lose

from saying "Nope, not masons"
but look at all there is to gain

[Pine]

It's not moon logic. Town can't be trapped in that way, you were worried about it being a trap.

Ergo, scum

[Psyche]

does no one else understand my thirst for adventure

[Psyche]

It's not moon logic. Town can't be trapped in that way, you were worried about it being a trap.

Ergo, scum

What are the ways that scum can be trapped in that way that town cannot.

[reinoe]

does no one else understand my thirst for adventure

I do. I often get lynched because of my adventurous playstyle. I'd rather the sk sort this situation but if you're the sk I'm going to look really silly...unless one of you is the sk and the other is mafia. That would be hilarious and explain the hesitation to not cc each other. I'm thinking as I type as I phone post.

[Psyche]

I do. I often get lynched because of my adventurous playstyle

it's as if you've slapped me

[PeregrineV]

After sleeping on it, I have to walk back my no ii's statement just a bit. I don't think we are dealing with a Godfather situation but I feel there's a good chance the SK is ii. My newb gut feeling is having two roles that are ii is a bit too favorable to the dark side.

Hmm. I'm very seriously considering whether this is a newbie scumslip. Here, Skybird is taking it as a given that there's no Godfather on the scum team, something that Town has hotly debated and is trying to figure out. I'm not seeing a good reason for Skybird to assume otherwise.

I'm also thinking that if there's scum between {Psyche, Marquis} it's Psyche. Fakeclaiming Masons with a Townie is practically suicide from a scum perspective, but a plausible (if asinine) Town gambit. Psyche's waffling on confirming or denying the Mason claim looks scummy to me in light of recent revelations. It looks like a deer in the headlights "Oh shit what do I do here, is this a trap?" response.

At this point, biggest suspects are PV, Psyche, Skybird. House also feels

off

to me, but that could just be the awkward middle experience point he's at. Would be good with any of those three lynches today, House and Gameplay on the back burner depending on flips

Glad to see you're scumreading me still. Tells me you haven't been taken over by the pod people yet.

If either Pscyhe or Marquis are scum with me, then pushing the fact they are fake masons is stupid scum-play and would be against my win-con. So think again.

Marquis needs to answer Skybird, since Psyche is the one outting it. There is less scum incentive to out it at this point, since 95% of the players are buying it.

[Pine]

Scum is in a position of being offered this big get out of jail free opportunity. They grab at it too eagerly, the Townie makin the claim say "Nnnope, reaction test, you're super eager, scum."

Townie, on the other hand, has no real incentive to play along. They don't gain or lose anything by shooting it down, and in the Town/Town fakeclaim youd have us believe, can actually lose a lot by backing it falsely. You make both players targets, and set up an unnecessary mislynch when one of you flips non-Mason

Further, the waffling is the real problem. Town would look at this and decide whether to take the risk or not. Scum wants to hedge their bets, ultimately deciding "Eh, we just won't NK Marquis and I'll ride ConfTown to endgame

This is my interpretation, take it or leave it. I just don't see Town looking at someone faking Mason with them and thinking "Trap"

PE: PV has a point, sure. I'm thinking that Psyche is worried that Marquis will draw the SK kill, screwing him, or that he'll draw the kill himself

[Pine]

do not fakeclaim as town
do not fakeclaim as town
do not fakeclaim as town

Hmmm

Also this

[Skybird]

Pine, yes, investigation immune.

House, from reading the wiki, an sk is usually either bullet proof or ii. I admit I'm guessing at set up when I state I think the sk is ii.

[Skybird]

Hmm. I'm very seriously considering whether this is a newbie scumslip. Here, Skybird is taking it as a given that there's no Godfather on the scum team, something that Town has hotly debated and is trying to figure out. I'm not seeing a good reason for Skybird to assume otherwise.

The reason I don't think we have a GF in this game is I have played several games that Wake has modded at a different site. From what has been revealed in flips so far I don't see a GF fitting into the set up. If you look through my ISO, you will also see that shortly after I replaced in, I mentioned that I didn't like the masons claim and asked about it because it was something that didn't seem to fit the set up. Since everyone else seemed to believe it, I didn't push it further. Now we see it was a fake claim.

And after reviewing what I just typed, I'm sure you will see that as scummy too. But I'm not going to change it because this is town me trying to figure out who the scum and sk are.

[Pine]

Yeah, out guessing the mod is always a super bad idea. It almost always backfires. Basing it on patterns from another site is actually worse than arbitrary guessing

Also, SKs are sometimes II, yeah. But Town has zero reason to assume there's no GF, nor to assume that the SK is. Further, SK hunting is classic scumplay

[House]

Further, SK hunting is classic scumplay

This is the second time I've seen somebody mention this, but nobody would tell me why before.

Why is it scummy to want to cut the night kills in half with one lynch? Wouldn't that be beneficial to town's win con?

This is the first game I've played with a sk in the set-up, so the tactics are new to me.

[Psyche]

it's scummy because it's a thing scum disproportionately do

[Psyche]

whether something is beneficial to the town's win con has more to do with whether something is pro or antitown

[Psyche]

of course,
i found no relationship between talk of SKs and town/scumhood back when i was doing psience,
so

[Pine]

Standard SK play is to mimic Town Vig, both because it's the go-to emergency claim and because their biggest threat is the Mafia team. SK wants the scum team dead just as much as Town does

Given that, the scumteam's biggest threat is the SK, and they're out to eliminate the SK ASAP.

From a Town perspective, it is not productive to focus on the SK, as the SK is scum hunting the same as Town is. Plus, SK looks a lot like Mafia in terms of their behavior, and is just as likely to be lynched on suspicion of being Mafia.

Therefore, when you see someone that's focusing suspiciously on finding the Serial Killer, you suspect Mafia team

[House]

Cool beans. Thanks for that.

[reinoe]

I do. I often get lynched because of my adventurous playstyle

it's as if you've slapped me

Well it wasn't meant to be. I've done some crazy shit so regardless of how this has all been weird it would be a ridiculous display of hypocrisy on my part if I voted for you.