NY 177: Simple Complexity (GAME OVER: Scum Wins!)

[Wake1]

Vote Count 5.3

Gameplay506 (0):

House (1):

PeregrineV

Marquis (0):

notscience (0):

PeregrineV (3):

Marquis, Shaddowez, reinoe

Pine (2):

Gameplay506, notscience

Psyche (2):

House, Pine

reinoe (1):

Psyche

Shaddowez (0):

Skybird (0):

Not Voting (1):

Skybird

~ With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to lynch!
~ Deadline expires 10/27/14, @2PM Central.
~ Please stop threatening to replace out, Psyche. Play the game. If it happens again I'll have to replace you.

OP | Game Rules | Day Start
1.1 | 1.2 | 1.3 | 1.4 | 1.5 | 1.6 | 1.7 | 1.8 | 1.9 | 1.10 | 1.11 | 1.12 | 1.13 | 1.14 | 1.15 | 1.16 | 1.17 | 1.18 | 1.19
Aegor's Lynch & Flip
Elyse and T S O's Murders & Flips
2.1 | 2.2 | 2.3 | 2.4
Aeronaut's Lynch & Flip
Texcat and Josh_B's Murders & Flips
3.1 | 3.2 | 3.3 | 3.4 | 3.5 | 3.6 | 3.7 | 3.8 | 3.9
tn5421's Lynch & Flip
Titus's Murder & Flip
4.1 | 4.2 | 4.3
OkaPoka's Lynch & Flip
Majiffy and Mirhawk's Murders & Flips
5.1 | 5.2 | 5.3 | 5.4 | 5.5
PeregrineV's Lynch & Flip
Gameplay506 and notsciences' Murders & Flips
6.1 | 6.2 | 6.3

[Psyche]

you really should have replaced me the first time
the fact that i'm still posting doesn't mean you don't have a job to do

[Skybird]

Psyche, do you have a link to a scum game of yours?

[Skybird]

VOTE: Psyche

For now. I still want to hear Marquis' explanation for claiming masons.

[Skybird]

House, what was your read on zMuffinMan before he replaced out?

[Pine]

you really should have replaced me the first time
the fact that i'm still posting doesn't mean you don't have a job to do

Actually, it does. Replace out or don't. Don't say you want to, then continue to contribute. It's disingenuous, and smacks strongly of using a non-game factor to affect in-game play. It's a lot like active lurking, but you can just deny responsibility

[Psyche]

There is nothing disingenuous about wanting to replace out and posting before that happens. At all.

[House]

House, what was your read on zMuffinMan before he replaced out?

I didn't have one. He's a big ol' pile of wtf to me.

[Skybird]

I was leaning scum on Muffin, but Pine seems to be town at the moment.

[Skybird]

^ not to mention majiffy's posts about pv are very limited- only interacted basically to say "no, vote tree/marquis", always downplaying the idea of a pv lynch in comparison to other lynches, and never directly gave any sort of read about pv while joking around with him, which signals a comfortable scumpartner interaction

Yeah, if he talks to me too much then I'll figure out he is scum.
Majiffy also had no interest in lynching Masons.

Vote: Marquis

OK, Jiffy, let's see money where your mouth is.

Get it past 4 votes and I'm in.

You won't vote your top scumread unless someone else runs them up to more than four votes for you?

Needs to be a viable wagon to consider leaving a viable wagon.
Or are you new here?

I went back and found this post by PV. I really think there's scum between Psyche and Marquis. Maybe not both, but definitely one. That's the only way the mason claim makes sense. I really want everyone to weigh in and tell everyone what they think of Psyche's responses since he outed the fake claim.

[House]

^ not to mention majiffy's posts about pv are very limited- only interacted basically to say "no, vote tree/marquis", always downplaying the idea of a pv lynch in comparison to other lynches, and never directly gave any sort of read about pv while joking around with him, which signals a comfortable scumpartner interaction

Yeah, if he talks to me too much then I'll figure out he is scum.
Majiffy also had no interest in lynching Masons.

Vote: Marquis

OK, Jiffy, let's see money where your mouth is.

Get it past 4 votes and I'm in.

You won't vote your top scumread unless someone else runs them up to more than four votes for you?

Needs to be a viable wagon to consider leaving a viable wagon.
Or are you new here?

I went back and found this post by PV. I really think there's scum between Psyche and Marquis. Maybe not both, but definitely one. That's the only way the mason claim makes sense. I really want everyone to weigh in and tell everyone what they think of Psyche's responses since he outed the fake claim.

I think they both are, tbh.

Maybe not both team scum, but I don't think either is town.

[Marquis]

i was about to replace out of this game like my others due to rl and health problems.
but i'm going to do this first:
1) i claimed masons with psyche because i was damn sure that pv was scum, and i had a hard townread on psyche. i didn't want any distractions from the pv wagon which is what appeared to be forming
2) i was paranoid earlier, but psyche's recent posting makes me confident in my townread on him anyway
3) psyche is a distraction anyway; scum is trying to redirect attention away from the neighborhoods, which there is sure to be scum in (remember these people saying "there's scum in the neighborhoods" and now saying "nah there totally isn't" once they're whittled down)
now i'm going to ask
given that my activity from now on will be extremely limited, with a focus on moderating my games
should i stay or should i go

[Psyche]

it'll be hard to sort us out if one of us doesn't stay

[shaddowez]

you really should have replaced me the first time
the fact that i'm still posting doesn't mean you don't have a job to do

Actually, it does. Replace out or don't. Don't say you want to, then continue to contribute. It's disingenuous, and smacks strongly of using a non-game factor to affect in-game play. It's a lot like active lurking, but you can just deny responsibility

I

slightly

disagree with Pine here. If somebody has legitimately requested to replace out, be it for time constraint reasons or whatnot, continuing to post until they've been officially replaced is fine with me. There may be outstanding questions posed to them, or specific things they want to bring to light for their replacement.

However, that being said, what Psyche has been doing is not the same thing. Based on Wake's note in his latest VC, it does not appear that Psyche has officially requested replacement. He just keeps saying things in thread making the rest of the player base think he's going to. I honestly can't see why somebody would do that either way, but definitely can't see town motivation in it at all. I also don't understand why town would randomly accept a fake masons claim, and then not say anything until being seriously looked into Days later. I'm completely throw off by this reveal, and honestly can't see both Marquis and Psyche (if either) being town right now. Since Psyche is the one that never countered and eventually outed it, that reeks more of scum to me.

VOTE: Psyche

@MOD

- I believe reinoe had changed his vote to Psyche before your VC.

[Marquis]

I have decided not to abandon this game after fucking up.

One or both of PV/Shadow is scum. The above vote and reasoning was horrible.

[shaddowez]

I have decided not to abandon this game after fucking up.

One or both of PV/Shadow is scum. The above vote and reasoning was horrible.

Please explain why it's horrible, other than the fact that you're town reading Psyche?

Tell me, if you were in the reverse position as town, would you blindly accept somebody else claiming Mason's with you, and then out it as we're getting closer to Endgame?

[Psyche]

I HAVE OFFICIALLY REQUESTED REPLACEMENT. A LOT.

[Marquis]

If I was Vanilla, of course I would go with it.

It would increase the chances of scum wasting their nightkill on me thinking I'm a PR.

There is little to no precedent on this site for lynching out of a pair of claimed Masons, especially with how Psyche and I treated each other previously (strong townreads, no hints of scumreading).

In fact, as far as I can remember it was mainly Majiffy who continued to push lynching me in spite of the mason claim- the only effect it had on him was making him change his tune from "Marquis is scum" to "Marquis and Psyche are scum". It was because of him that the Mason paranoia was built up so high, and I think scum are and have been excited to have this paranoia exist as a distraction from themselves.

If you're not scum, then who is scum between me and PV? It's incredibly frustrating that both you and PV are ignoring the 2/4 and 1/4 living neighborhoods without flipped scum already, and I'm thinking you two are scum for it. Neighborhoods of this size and with all-town flips so far are great benefits to have in terms of scumhunting/process of elimination, and at the very least PV should know it.

That's it for now, the medicine is kicking in. Night.

[Marquis]

Last time: even if you think Psyche is scum, the best course of action is to lynch one of me/PV/Shadow (last members of neighborhoods whose other members were town) today.

[shaddowez]

If you're not scum, then who is scum between me and PV? It's incredibly frustrating that both you and PV are ignoring the 2/4 and 1/4 living neighborhoods without flipped scum already, and I'm thinking you two are scum for it. Neighborhoods of this size and with all-town flips so far are great benefits to have in terms of scumhunting/process of elimination, and at the very least PV should know it.

How was I ignoring PV? I voted him on D3, and then was voting him toDay until I just voted Psyche due to the Mason BS. I never said I don't think he's scum, I just also think Psyche is scum.

Also, while I hate to defend him, how the hell can you say that PV has been ignoring the neighborhoods? He's been the one pushing for a scum in each hood

forever

, which is why he thinks I'm scum (unless he has a better case against me, which I haven't seen). It's also the reason he's been pushing you as scum, since he says he's town. I know you thought about replacing out, but have you even been reading this game?

[Skybird]

UNVOTE:

Marquis, from what I remember, PV has been the one pushing scum in each neighborhood.

[Pine]

I have decided not to abandon this game after fucking up.

One or both of PV/Shadow is scum. The above vote and reasoning was horrible.

Disagree

I don't have any clue where this ironclad townread came from, nor why you had it so early and never questioned it, but I'm forced to deduce that you're tunneling that read super, super hard, and can't accept that you were wrong all game

[Pine]

UNVOTE:

Marquis, from what I remember, PV has been the one pushing scum in each neighborhood.

Which is a super sketchy assumption. Remember, scum KNOWS the percentage of scum in each neighborhood. If there were even one all-Town hood, or one hood that you don't have members in that might contain our SK, charging full steam ahead on the notion that there has to be scum in each is practically required. It's a free action that looks like legit scumhunting, when it's just bad logic.

I've said it repeatedly, I'll say it again. Wake stated in the first post that there's a twist to this game. All bets regarding setup are off the table

[Pine]

Unless contradicted in bold, please refer to this post should I die

I am highly confident that {PV, Skybird, Psyche} contains 2-3 scum

[House]

I think Psyche is scum, and it wouldn't be too hard to nudge me over on PV.

Not seeing it for skybird, though. What am I missing, there?