Hi everyone. I see I'm being threatened before I even get my first post in.
VOTE: Mathdino
In post 77, Newbie wrote:I find it weird that wgeurts unlynched wisdom when he started to receive a bit of heat for it.
In post 30, VictorDeAngelo wrote:In post 28, Mathdino wrote:Well Newbie, that explains your wallposting, haha. Are there any records left of one of your scum games and town games?
Hey Math, why so keen to get some early meta off Newbie?
In post 93, Malakittens wrote:
In post 86, SilverWolf wrote:I'm getting a slight town feel on Mathdino due to the detail of his posts and willingness to discuss and share info. I also like his line of questioning of the other players. Not getting much from anyone else yet except the 3 I have mentioned.
UNVOTE: Mathdino
VOTE: VictorDeAngelo
Better vote.
Why?
It looks like a lot of this playerlist will probably be scrutinized by me from me. The many scum games that I have either modded/played with by VDA it doesn't seem to mirror them, but it doesn't mirror VDA's town play either. Something feels off about him, but I'm not exactly sure of what yet.
In post 120, acryon wrote:
Here's the thing. I have seen this type of thing happen many times IRL and several times in my few games on here, and it almost always comes from scum. I always try to call it out when I see it, because it tends to be the beginnings of scum controlling the flow of conversation, something I'm not interested in seeing happen. There is a difference between questioning someone for the sake of getting information with which to base reads and questioning someone about how they are playing the game. The former is more often town and the latter is more often scum.
In post 229, Mathdino wrote:
Actually I'm kinda disappointed in today's activity, so:
SilverWolf: Whatcha think of TTH and her reads on Wisdom and NM?
In post 39, Wisdom wrote:Yeah, I also feel Victor's question was kind of useless and maybe even a little loaded. There are not many reasons one wants to get meta.
In post 108, Wisdom wrote:@TTH
I don't appreciate how you talk about me and N_M in the third person instead of trying to engage either of us. Do you care about hearing a defense to your accusations, or would you just like to get others to vote with you?
In post 187, Wisdom wrote:@wguerts
Can you stop talking about links and masons and everything related to this? You may not realize it, but it does help scum and nobody else.
In post 244, wgeurts wrote:Yes, however whatever I say you'll lynch me anyway. Seriously, I'm town and I'd rather die quickly and give you info than let the scum further run the town.
In post 299, Wisdom wrote:It slightly troubled me when Silver defended me in 238 but I didn't give it much thought. You might actually have a point about her.
In post 295, Mathdino wrote:You know, the funny thing about this is by post 279 I started to rethink my read on wgeurts and saw this as frustrated town again.
BUT THEN HE PUSHES MASON CLAIM AGAIN.
wgeurts, if you're town, and I don't think you are, think about this: a mason is basically an innocent child. Now some setups let inno childs wait and PM the mod when they want to be confirmed town, instead of confirmed on D0.
Which innocent child do you think is more powerful?
That is why we don't ask masons to claim until they can actually use this info for their benefit.
In post 296, VictorDeAngelo wrote:I can recall times I self voted in frustration as town, but to be honest this doesn't feel the same. Particularly considering how early it is (in fact one slot still hasn't posted yet) so it's pretty anti-town to be pushing towards the end of the day with your own lynch. Still happy with my vote on Wgeurts.
In post 258, SilverWolf wrote:Also, wegeurts, there is only 4 votes out of 7 on you without your self-vote. So help me figure out who the scum is on your wagon if you are town?
wgeurts-VictorDeAngelo, Newbie, mathdino, blindmewithscience (L-3)
Like I said earlier, I'm pretty sure mathdino is town. Newbie leans town to me so far. So, is it VDA or blindmewithscience do you think and why?
Or is wagon analysis bad right now in the game without a flip?
Yeah, wagon analyse is generally useless preflip. And if your interested in wagon analysis why not wait for more people to join the wagon? Wouldn't this have been the point where opportunistic scum would have been jumping on?
In post 265, Wisdom wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: wquerts
Yeah, I don't like this quick recovery. A moment earlier you were on the brink of suicide and now, after getting people to think you're a newbtown flailing and beg you to unvote yourself, you act like nothing happened. Conviniently, this all happens just as there's momentum on me building.
In post 307, Newbie wrote:In post 265, Wisdom wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: wquerts
Yeah, I don't like this quick recovery. A moment earlier you were on the brink of suicide and now, after getting people to think you're a newbtown flailing and beg you to unvote yourself, you act like nothing happened. Conviniently, this all happens just as there's momentum on me building.
I don't like this post. Wgeurt was asked repeatedly to unvote and make an actual case against someone. I actually agree with the case he made against you.
unvote
vote: Wisdom
In post 316, Wisdom wrote:In post 305, SilverWolf wrote:
I disagree with this vote and reasoning behind it. I see nothing wrong with Wgeurts unvoting himself after several people asked him to do so. I don't think this is more likely to come from scum vs town.
This is, once again, looking at the surface. "unvoting is normal because he was asked to do so". No. It's weird that a newbtown listens so easily and complies with what people are telling him to do. It's weird that all of his frustration is gone and he's back to playing like nothing happened. His breakdown was not genuine, that's what that tells us.
In post 320, Wisdom wrote:In post 318, SilverWolf wrote:In post 316, Wisdom wrote:In post 305, SilverWolf wrote:
I disagree with this vote and reasoning behind it. I see nothing wrong with Wgeurts unvoting himself after several people asked him to do so. I don't think this is more likely to come from scum vs town.
This is, once again, looking at the surface. "unvoting is normal because he was asked to do so". No. It's weird that a newbtown listens so easily and complies with what people are telling him to do. It's weird that all of his frustration is gone and he's back to playing like nothing happened. His breakdown was not genuine, that's what that tells us.
Actually, I've had breakdowns like this in other games when I've been so damn frustrated with being tunnelled as scum when I am town that I have voted myself and threatened to replace out and been talked out of it and changed my mind and gone back to playing. This is something I can relate to as coming from a town mindset based on my own experiences with it which is probably why I see it as a newbtown action.
How easily did you change your mind? I am not arguing it can't be done, I am arguing it can't be done in a heartbeat.
In post 319, Wisdom wrote:One of {SilverWolf, Newbie} is scum, both for this unwarranted WKing of wgeurts and for jumping on the easy wagon with rehashed reasoning. I don't think they both are, seeing as they voted together in a short time using the same reasoning.
In post 322, Mathdino wrote:I like how Silver is engaging in conversation with her top suspect who she thinks is scum
but is completely ignoring me.
Thanks for that one.
In post 325, blindmewithscience wrote:
So there's two sides to this town forming. There's mathdino and Wisdom, who are both suspicious of wgeurts and Silver. (VDA, based on his last post, appears to be part of this group). And then there's Finn, Silver, Newbie, TTH, Malakittens, and wgeurts, who believe that wgeurts' play was simply that of a frustrated townie (and are somewhat critical of Wisdom). Not_Mafia seems to be part of this group based on 274. And then acryon, who's been V/LA for this whole thing. (Also the Undertaker, because he's a no-show). At the moment, I'm leaning towards the former group, as wgeurts has been incredibly suspicious, but I want more info before completely deciding (aka when wgeurts responds to stuff). Including me, that's a 7-4 split, with 2 abstaining. Although this is all just a really big simplification of everything that's happened so far.
In post 328, Wisdom wrote:In post 323, SilverWolf wrote:In post 319, Wisdom wrote:One of {SilverWolf, Newbie} is scum, both for this unwarranted WKing of wgeurts and for jumping on the easy wagon with rehashed reasoning. I don't think they both are, seeing as they voted together in a short time using the same reasoning.
Actually, my reasoning is pretty solid and I'm sticking with it for now. I am not really caring for the sheeping comments from mathdino or the comments from you either so if you guys get me lynched, I'll flip town, and be out of the game and then you guys can go back to leaving the new players alone-newbie, wegeurts, myself and actually go after real scum, unless of course one or both of you is scum doing this in which case, it would make sense.
I don't see where this comes from, do you feel like you'll be lynched? You have like one vote on you.
Also I don't get the "new players cannot be scum". Last I checked everyone has the same odds of drawing scum.
In post 330, Wisdom wrote:And no, your reasoning is not solid at all, it's a rehash of everything that has been said already: "omg wgeurts unvoting is so normal, he was asked to do it" when it's not and I have said why already.
In post 336, Wisdom wrote:Then why'd you say that we should leave the new players alone and "focus on the real scum"? That implies that you believe the new players can't be scum.
Your opinions constantly feel as if you're echoing the consensus there is around, there is little if any original reasoning. That's why you're being attacked for them.
In post 343, Mathdino wrote:Do you think I'm scum?
In post 343, Mathdino wrote:
I'd like you to flesh out your case on Wisdom, because as it is, it completely relies on wgeurts being town and Wisdom's votepost. Contrary to your belief, I can be swayed on this issue.
In post 343, Mathdino wrote:Who would you want to lynch if not Wisdom? If your answer to the 2nd question is 'yes', who if not me/Wisdom?
Any other reads? I really don't want this town to turn into the Wisdom and Wgeurts Show; it lets people pretty much cruise by with minimal effort and just pick a side.
In post 360, acryon wrote:In post 358, SilverWolf wrote:@acryon-tell me exactly why I am such a good lynch. So far you've said AtE and vote parity because you don't like the Wisdom wagon. Is that it so far?
I thought I said more than that? And others said things that I didn't feel I needed to repeat. But I will for posterity.
-Use of AtE more than once.(323, 347)
-Very weak defense that lacked any real conviction. (335)
-Terrible argument about Dino "fabricating" a case on you. (437)
-Agreement with Newbie's weak argument that you back up with similarly flawed reasoning. (308)
-Agreement with Newbie another time where Newbie's argument wasn't necessarily bad, but your post added approximately nothing (84)
-Reasoning for voting Victor was just an argument I made much earlier; nothing original added at all. (98)
-In 121, after just saying in 98 that you thought the questioning of Victor was making a problem out of nothing, you question my questioning of Victor on it, asking where it might have gone even though in 98 you eluded to the fact that it wasn't an actual problem, and was thus, going nowhere.
-135. Not sure how that vote from Newbie would have been opportunistic at all. It was completely in the spotlight and was the second vote on the wagon. I would hardly call that opportunistic. If Newbie was 3rd or 4th maybe, and if Newbie's reasoning was bad, but it wasn't terrible.
-247 is another seemingly pro-town comment that lacks any real original content.
TLDR; other than the first two points I made, a lot of it has to do with you piggy-backing off of others' content to make it seem like you are scum-hunting. Opportunistic, in short.
In post 363, acryon wrote:In post 362, SilverWolf wrote:In post 360, acryon wrote:In post 358, SilverWolf wrote:@acryon-tell me exactly why I am such a good lynch. So far you've said AtE and vote parity because you don't like the Wisdom wagon. Is that it so far?
I thought I said more than that?And others said things that I didn't feel I needed to repeat. But I will for posterity.
-Use of AtE more than once.(323, 347)
-Very weak defense that lacked any real conviction. (335)
-Terrible argument about Dino "fabricating" a case on you. (437)
-Agreement with Newbie's weak argument that you back up with similarly flawed reasoning. (308)
-Agreement with Newbie another time where Newbie's argument wasn't necessarily bad, but your post added approximately nothing (84)
-Reasoning for voting Victor was just an argument I made much earlier; nothing original added at all. (98)
-In 121, after just saying in 98 that you thought the questioning of Victor was making a problem out of nothing, you question my questioning of Victor on it, asking where it might have gone even though in 98 you eluded to the fact that it wasn't an actual problem, and was thus, going nowhere.
-135. Not sure how that vote from Newbie would have been opportunistic at all. It was completely in the spotlight and was the second vote on the wagon. I would hardly call that opportunistic. If Newbie was 3rd or 4th maybe, and if Newbie's reasoning was bad, but it wasn't terrible.
-247 is another seemingly pro-town comment that lacks any real original content.
TLDR; other than the first two points I made, a lot of it has to do with you piggy-backing off of others' content to make it seem like you are scum-hunting. Opportunistic, in short.
So far you are just disagreeing with the points I am making and using the same old argument mathdino and Wisdom are using regarding the piggy-backing without using any real original content. I've already answered to this. You just don't like it. Where's your original content in your case above?
Which is why I only posted the original parts in my post with the vote on you, as I mentioned in the very post you just replied to...
In post 365, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
@Silverwolf- Why do all players scumreading you need to provide original content?
In post 368, acryon wrote:In post 367, SilverWolf wrote:In post 365, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
@Silverwolf- Why do all players scumreading you need to provide original content?
That is the reason they are giving for scumreading me. Telling me I am sheeping other ideas without providing original content. I've answered to this but it continues to be used.
So why is it a problem for me and not for them?
Wrong. The reason for you isconsistentsheeping. Scum are never usually scummy for singular actions, but for patterns.
In post 370, VictorDeAngelo wrote:In post 367, SilverWolf wrote:In post 365, VictorDeAngelo wrote:
@Silverwolf- Why do all players scumreading you need to provide original content?
That is the reason they are giving for scumreading me. Telling me I am sheeping other ideas without providing original content. I've answered to this but it continues to be used.
So why is it a problem for me and not for them?
But there's a distinction between sheeping in general and finding the same things scummy about a player. If you ask for the scum case against anyone then the cases should overlap (in fact when they don't is when you tend to have a problem). It isn't scummy for a player to be scumreading you for reasons already mentioned, especially when multiple people have presented a case. It sort of feels like your looking for an easy thing to counterattack Acryon over.
PEdit: Acryon seems to have beaten to the punch.
PPEdit: Gees, can you wait like five seconds guys.
In post 375, VictorDeAngelo wrote:Do you think Acryon is scum or misguided town Silver?
In post 376, acryon wrote:Ok, here are some specifics SilverWolf.
In post 354, acryon wrote:
In post 347, SilverWolf wrote:
The fact that you pulled posts based on an ISO of me, gave your interpretation of my thoughts, and asked others what they thought of me, with zero questions directed at me or giving me any chance to explain or defend myself.
How is that bad at all? Some people like to question players directly, and others like to present some information and poll the audience.
In post 354, acryon wrote:In post 308, SilverWolf wrote:In post 307, Newbie wrote:
I don't like this post. Wgeurt was asked repeatedly to unvote and make an actual case against someone. I actually agree with the case he made against you.
unvote
vote: Wisdom
This is a good point and it is worth pointing out that as soon as wgeurts said Wisdom may be scum pushing his wagon from the sidelines and not backing it up with a vote, he immediately votes wgeurts on the faulty reasoning that he unvoted himself even though he was asked to do so by several and asked to give the reads he did on his wagon. This was a no-win situation for wgeurts. Something I can see scum pushing.
I don't actually like this argument at all. It has been abundantly clear where Wisdom's intentions were. As someone that tends to prefer questioning over voting for pressure, I can relate to this somewhat. If a wgerts lynch went through, I doubt anyone would be ignorant enough to think that Wisdom wasn't involved in getting the wagon going. Wisdom is still a null to me at this point, but I think this argument is bad.
In post 378, acryon wrote:You haven't discussed either of the posts I just quoted above with anyone.
In post 381, acryon wrote:*Sigh* Nobody discussed the two posts I was commented on from you, nor are there answers to the comments I posed in the quotes I re-posted above.
For the sake of avoiding beating a dead horse, I'll make things very simple and clear. Forget what I think about the rest of your posting history and everything else, and just answer me these questions.
Question 1:
How is MathDino making a case on you based on your ISO rather than engaging you directly bad?
In post 381, acryon wrote:Question 2:
Do you really think that just because Wisdom didn't have his vote in place that people would forget his push on wgeurts? Do you not think that his intentions and actions were clear enough even without the vote?
In post 387, blindmewithscience wrote:On mobile, will post as well as I can.
The wagon on Wisdom (IIRC) is mainly because he criticized wgeurts (who many think is town) and because of his weird immediate voting for wgeurts after he received from heat for not voting him. Please correct me if I'm wrong. This wagon is largely based on the argument that wgeurts is a frustrated townie. As I said before, I'm leaning towards this assumption being correct but I want more information. And so I'm basically against this wagon-the premise is wrong, and the conclusion is wrong (AKA Wisdom isn't scum). Of course, this entire thing is all based on assuming that wgeurts and Wisdom are on opposite sides. TL;DR: I think wisdom leans because I think wgeurts leans scum.
In post 310, blindmewithscience wrote:
But also, I like the point that Silver made about Wisdom only voted after wgeurts' argument. Again, not sure how much this affects my opinion of Silver, but the Wisdom case is getting stronger.
In post 387, blindmewithscience wrote:And silver is still a mystery. The arguments against her are much, much stronger than her (pretty weak) defenses. 347 was an interesting one to me. At first, it seemed like a really obvious frustrated townie post: but the recent arguments made against her (the AtE is strong with this one, and the actual defense isn't that good). I'm slowly being convinced by the arguments against her. So in order to prevent my conversion, I'd like to see a good defense by silver.
Also, my mind is pretty dead right now. Could someone explain post 385 to me? Silver wolf, are you just accepting the arguments against you or something else?
In post 390, Mathdino wrote:
But hey, let's compromise(this goes to everyone voting Wisdom). I think Wisdom is town and Silver is scummy independent of him. But I'm going to assume Wisdom is scum and try to take an objective view of this.
Open up this ISO of the two of them. I find it notable that they have ZERO interaction up until isolattion #42, where I had to literally ask Silver what she thought of Wisdom. Spoiler: She approves of him. Hell, even Wisdom is troubled by this (isolation #63). Note that I've pretty much been townreading Wisdom the whole game; if he's scum, he's only pointing out Silver because a wagon could easily form against her from my case while keeping me as a buddy.
So why then, does Silver decide to vote Wisdom instead of the dude who made a crap case against her? Answer: She recognises that Wisdom is bussing her and goes along with it because A. Wisdom is more likely than me to get lynched, and B. She wants towncred for going after scum (she got it from you, Newbie). Now, you may say that Silver just found Wisdom scummier, but everything that was said about Wisdom applies to me as well. Read the post. She didn't mention his votepost like everyone else did.
Not many other singular posts apply, I highly recommend just reading the ISO yourself and coming to a conclusion. How me-who-thinks-Wisdom-is-scum interprets it: Wisdom and Silver don't interact AT ALL until my case on Silver, which suddenly makes them start distancing each other to hell. Silver actually starts ignoring me and tunnels Wisdom for a page. They're banking on one of them getting lynched and the other getting MASSIVE towncred for it due to their bickering.
And yes, this is absolutely a 'damned if you do damned if you don't'. Silver is scummy enough IMO to transcend Wisdom's flip; if Wisdom flips scum, it points to Silver, and if he flips town, it negates your entire reason for a townread on her.
So let us come together, wgeurts-tunnelers, and Wisdom-tunnelers, lurkers and spammers, one-liner-ers and wallposters, let us come together to banish the wolf of silver hide from this town. /endrant
I'm welcome to reasonable critique of the above case, since I AM trying to put myself in a mindset that I wouldn't normally. However, I'd appreciate if you didn't discount it simply because of that.
In post 390, Mathdino wrote:
But hey, let's compromise(this goes to everyone voting Wisdom). I think Wisdom is town and Silver is scummy independent of him. But I'm going to assume Wisdom is scum and try to take an objective view of this.
Open up this ISO of the two of them. I find it notable that they have ZERO interaction up until isolattion #42, where I had to literally ask Silver what she thought of Wisdom. Spoiler: She approves of him. Hell, even Wisdom is troubled by this (isolation #63). Note that I've pretty much been townreading Wisdom the whole game; if he's scum, he's only pointing out Silver because a wagon could easily form against her from my case while keeping me as a buddy.
So why then, does Silver decide to vote Wisdom instead of the dude who made a crap case against her? Answer: She recognises that Wisdom is bussing her and goes along with it because A. Wisdom is more likely than me to get lynched, and B. She wants towncred for going after scum (she got it from you, Newbie). Now, you may say that Silver just found Wisdom scummier, but everything that was said about Wisdom applies to me as well. Read the post. She didn't mention his votepost like everyone else did.
In post 390, Mathdino wrote:Not many other singular posts apply, I highly recommend just reading the ISO yourself and coming to a conclusion. How me-who-thinks-Wisdom-is-scum interprets it: Wisdom and Silver don't interact AT ALL until my case on Silver, which suddenly makes them start distancing each other to hell. Silver actually starts ignoring me and tunnels Wisdom for a page. They're banking on one of them getting lynched and the other getting MASSIVE towncred for it due to their bickering.
And yes, this is absolutely a 'damned if you do damned if you don't'. Silver is scummy enough IMO to transcend Wisdom's flip; if Wisdom flips scum, it points to Silver, and if he flips town, it negates your entire reason for a townread on her.
So let us come together, wgeurts-tunnelers, and Wisdom-tunnelers, lurkers and spammers, one-liner-ers and wallposters, let us come together to banish the wolf of silver hide from this town. /endrant
I'm welcome to reasonable critique of the above case, since I AM trying to put myself in a mindset that I wouldn't normally. However, I'd appreciate if you didn't discount it simply because of that.
In post 398, Mathdino wrote:Silver, you misunderstand me. I know you listed the reasons you find Wisdom scummy. But every one of those applies to me as well. So why hop on the Wisdom wagon? Is that not opportunism in itself? All 305 says is you disagree with Wisdom's vote. Well good for you. I voted wgeurts too, as did a lot of people. And then 308, as I mentioned previously, is just a repeat of what Newbie said.
Associative tells are useful after a flip, yes.
So why do you keep using them for your Wisdom case? It relies on wgeurts being town, does it not?
My point is that you being scum doesn't even rely on Wisdom's flip. It's essentially a refutation of Newbie's read on you (she thinks you're town because Wisdom is scum).
In post 397, Mathdino wrote:
I don't think Wisdom is scum, and I didn't change my mind. It's called a compromise. I think if Wisdom flips scum, it would very much make sense that you guys would be bussing each other, so I'm asking the Wisdom wagon to at least consider it. And no, it's not a fantasy, it's called basic logic. If A implies B, and not A implies B, then B is true. A = "Wisdom is scum". B = "SilverWolf is scum". Do the Math.
In post 401, SilverWolf wrote:Some basic reads-
Mala and N-M-null-not enough content
Blindedmewithscience-I would like to hear a response to my 391 before sorting him one way or the other. But that post also outlines my suspicions of him a little bit.
acryon-despite the earlier problems I mentioned in 377, upon further review of his ISO I can see many of his posts as coming from a town mindset, so he is leaning town for now
wisdom-explained
Newbie-getting a newb town feel
wgeurts-while I was pretty convinced he was newb-town, his absence from the thread for several days is making me wonder if this is correct, he needs to answer for himself
FinnLaw-303 strike's me as very town and 253 looks town also.
mathdino-I don't like tunnels-I can see this coming from town or scum, while his posts look detailed, effort is not indicative of alignment and he seems all too willing to give blindmewithscience a pass simply for sharing the same thought process as he does-to be determined
In post 406, blindmewithscience wrote:
I'm fencesitting because I WANT MORE INFO. I will not make a final decision until I feel that I'm informed enough to make the correct decision. And I think that I've only been fencesitting on Wisdom/wgeurts, which is dependent on more posts. And if it came down to the wire, I would vote wgeurts (for now).
About 310: I think I can see where you're coming from about being opportunistic. I think at the time, I was trying to share the information that I had recently got from you that was relevant to the discussion. But how is it not adding to the conversation? I'm pointing out how your criticism of mathdino's argument didn't respond fittingly to mathdino's post, which no one had said before.
And for a defense:Hm, Silver, how about a full response (as in a lot more than "Sounds good to me") to acryon's arguments, as pointed out by math in 384, as you haven't responded to those yet. If you do this, I think I'll be satisfied.
In post 408, SilverWolf wrote:In post 406, blindmewithscience wrote:
I'm fencesitting because I WANT MORE INFO. I will not make a final decision until I feel that I'm informed enough to make the correct decision. And I think that I've only been fencesitting on Wisdom/wgeurts, which is dependent on more posts. And if it came down to the wire, I would vote wgeurts (for now).
About 310: I think I can see where you're coming from about being opportunistic. I think at the time, I was trying to share the information that I had recently got from you that was relevant to the discussion. But how is it not adding to the conversation? I'm pointing out how your criticism of mathdino's argument didn't respond fittingly to mathdino's post, which no one had said before.
And for a defense:Hm, Silver, how about a full response (as in a lot more than "Sounds good to me") to acryon's arguments, as pointed out by math in 384, as you haven't responded to those yet. If you do this, I think I'll be satisfied.
I will admit I was in a bad mood when I wrote this 385 in response to 384. I'll respond to 384 in a separate post. Hold on.
In post 412, Mathdino wrote:Not much to say on the last bout of posts. I want to point out to Silver that I don't find voting scum scummy, and I don't find voting town scummy, it's all dependent on the context. The "Let's assume Wisdom is scum" started as a thought experiment on my part after Newbie claimed that you being town relies on Wisdom being scum.
I'm also not giving blindme a free pass because I agree with him; I have a townread on him because I find his thought process townish. You'll note that I did point out the slight buddying and IIoA, but I'm willing to discount that on account of his experience level. IIoA is fairly common for people's first few games.
Thanks, Wisdom, I'll keep that in mind if Silver continues to contribute. The fact remains, however, that it seems unlikely we'll get a lynch on wgeurts.
@FinnLaw: So I'm assuming you don't like detailed/analytical?
I would attribute the apparent wishiwashiness to the fact that if I were in charge, we'd lynch wgeurts and Silver in succession. My vote is just indicative of which one I find scummier at that particular point in time, but I'd gladly vote for either, hence my willingness to switch so much. Watch me.
UNVOTE: SilverWolf
VOTE: wgeurts
UNVOTE: wgeurts
VOTE: SilverWolf
And thanks, I look forward to it.
In post 412, Mathdino wrote:
Thanks, Wisdom, I'll keep that in mind if Silver continues to contribute. The fact remains, however, that it seems unlikely we'll get a lynch on wgeurts.
In post 417, acryon wrote:In post 405, Wisdom wrote:Mathdino, I could see SilverWolf being town actually. There is a passion in her defenses that makes me think they might be genuine. I also think that as scum she would more try to appease you than antagonise you.
I feel wgeurts is the much better choice for today.
I would much prefer a SilverWolf lynch, but if that can't get going then I do think wgeurts is the next best.
In post 407, SilverWolf wrote:
Revisiting wgeurts-181 and 182are horrible and I am wondering if scum would be so blatant about 182 but it was extremely scummy. Many of his posts in his defense of himself to mathdino I can totally relate to as are his emotional responses. 264 looks like a town post. 287 I can completely understand. 288 was scummy as hell.
Yeah, So this is a tough read. I feel he is frustrated town but some of his posts are so scummy that it's hard to ignore. Not sure here. Would like him to come back to the thread.
This post to me reads like an opportunity to kill the momentum on his own wagon by adding onto the existing wgeurts wagon.
In post 418, acryon wrote:In post 416, SilverWolf wrote:In post 412, Mathdino wrote:
Thanks, Wisdom, I'll keep that in mind if Silver continues to contribute. The fact remains, however, that it seems unlikely we'll get a lynch on wgeurts.
There is no reason to believe a wgeurts lynch won't happen today. Your logic is faulty.
I disagree. I think it is reasonably likely that, at this point in time, the momentum doesn't exist for a wgeurts lynch.
In post 422, acryon wrote:In post 421, SilverWolf wrote:In post 418, acryon wrote:In post 416, SilverWolf wrote:In post 412, Mathdino wrote:
Thanks, Wisdom, I'll keep that in mind if Silver continues to contribute. The fact remains, however, that it seems unlikely we'll get a lynch on wgeurts.
There is no reason to believe a wgeurts lynch won't happen today. Your logic is faulty.
I disagree. I think it is reasonably likely that, at this point in time, the momentum doesn't exist for a wgeurts lynch.
I'm not sure where you come up with that idea since we have a week or more until deadline and several haven't contributed enough yet to even determine where they stand yet.
386 is a good example of where the town is at generally. I think it would be hard for wgeurts to do anything even scummier than he has done so far, so I doubt new actions by him will change much of the case. At this point, you either think wgeurts' scummy actions are probably scum, or you think they are probably town. I don't think many people are truly on the fence. Either you are willing to vote the kind of play from that kind of player, or you're not at this point. That's my thoughts at least. Reading back over this, it is kind of confusing, but I'm trying to say that basically there is a small chance someone is going to "connect the dots" with wgeurts posts and crack the case wide open. It kind of is what it is at this point.
In post 445, blindmewithscience wrote:
Now for my entire conclusion:
We all agree that a Wisdom/wgeurts scumteam is incredibly unlikely. While the cases against Wisdom are legitimate, the argument against wgeurts is much stronger IMO. And so I believe that Wisdom is the townie and wgeurts is scum. With Silver somewhat defending wgeurts, I could see a scumteam with her and wgeurts (but I'm still waiting for a response to my 406, as I can also see the frustrated townie in her). I'll try to add more and expand on this later: have some tests tomorrow that I'd like to study for. Probably won't check this again for another few hours.
In post 446, Malakittens wrote:Wge would have to be really ballsy scum and be confident that his partners are good at playing scum to intentionally mason fish in thread.
Wisdom and wge will not be scum together. I could see Silver scum.
Is it really bad that I keep confusing TTH & BWMS' posts as one player.
Anyways townreads in no order {Mathdino, Finnlaw, TTH, BWMS} leaning town {N_M & Wge}
Wisdom explain why I should be townreading you?