Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[St Constantine the Hermit]

wgeurts, I'm interested to see the case you said you had on me yesterday.

Expect it in an hour or so.

The lord knows a liar when he see's one. You're on the clock child.

[wgeurts]

Ok, you first with me say you thought my unvote was suspicous without further reasons. You then post a long post using all reasons others have worked out and discussed for a while. The discussion was a few pages long and you didn't find my vote so scummy at first otherwise you would have pushed it and/or voted me. You did neither and decided to lurk, that isn't scummy in its self however one of your forst posts afterwords instantly used others reason right after discussion to jump on me.
Then the same happens with your vote on wisdom, you lurked and then suddeneley you jump on wisdom

Using arguments others were alreay discussing

. You didn't even help discuss, you just jumped, like that. Your not scum hunting, as you said you are new. A new scum I would expect to see taking their chances when they pop up and you are. There's no scum hunting on your behalf, most if your posts contain nothing new and are worthless fluff. Your trying to look town but are faking it badly like a newbie.

I also heavily suspect wisdom.

[wgeurts]

wgeurts, I'm interested to see the case you said you had on me yesterday.

Expect it in an hour or so.

The lord knows a liar when he see's one. You're on the clock child.

The lord must then be pleased.

[Newbie]

The discussion was a few pages long and you didn't find my vote so scummy at first otherwise you would have pushed it and/or voted me.

I don't know what you mean by this. Can you elaborate?

You did neither and decided to lurk, that isn't scummy in its self however one of your forst posts afterwords instantly used others reason right after discussion to jump on me. Then the same happens with your vote on wisdom, you lurked and then suddeneley you jump on wisdom

Using arguments others were alreay discussing

.

Actually, the only other person really suspecting Wisdom as that point was TTH. Also, my reasons for suspecting Wisdom were a bit different than TTH's, so...

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm looking at Victor's ISO trying to make myself happy with a townread, but posts like 296, 356, 365, and 370 make me think I went wrong somewhere and he's actually scum.

There are pieces of 296 that I don't love, but the others seem pretty neutral to me. Anything specific that's pinging you?

Yes. Quite a bit, actually.

In post 296, I dislike how closed-minded this wgeurts push is. Post 356 is entirely devoted to talking about how blind could be scum with wgeurts based on associations but wgeurts somehow committed some cardinal sin by "banding people together." The questions in 365 seem kind of pointless and serves only as filler. Post 370 is a strained angle on Silver Wolf, who I'm reading as town.

But what's more important isn't all the little detailed stuff in the previous paragraph. It's mostly the fact that he's completely tabling the Wisdom read even though that wagon is at L-3. I would think it would have higher priority than that, but I feel like it's repeatedly getting swept under the rug.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Hello, the lord bears news, VictorDeAngelo is scum. Why has he not been stigmatized yet?

[acryon]

Do you think Victor is scum protecting his buddy Wisdom?

Hello, the lord bears news, VictorDeAngelo is scum. Why has he not been stigmatized yet?

For the love of all that is good, please make a post that contains some read/reference/information and not just base-less crap. Eloquently worded garbage is still garbage. Be a good townie,

read the thread

, and enlighten us on the conclusions when you get there.

Actually, the only other person really suspecting Wisdom as that point was TTH. Also, my reasons for suspecting Wisdom were a bit different than TTH's, so...

What is your reasoning for suspecting Wisdom outside of disliking his interaction with wguerts?

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH
Are you still happy with your Wisdom vote?

I am.

For someone who absolutely demands explanations from everyone else, getting Wisdom's opinions on the game as a whole is like getting blood from a stone. I understand that he's townreading MathDino, which is a very popular opinion anyway, and scumreading wgeurts but everyone else in the game remains at a blank. The recent interactions with Mala seem halfhearted at best. Even the push on wgeurts feels oddly lethargic.

What do you find redeeming in Wisdom's activity? I'd really like to know.

[TellTaleHeart]

Do you think Victor is scum protecting his buddy Wisdom?

Possible, but that kind of thinking is somewhat damaging because of how wildly speculative it is.
Independent of what Wisdom is, though, I think it's odd for someone to completely ignore the elephant in the room that is the Wisdom wagon.

[Newbie]

What is your reasoning for suspecting Wisdom outside of disliking his interaction with wguerts?

Posts #1 and #2 by Wisdom are weird because they came after wgeurts' voting/unvoting of him as well as the

obvious

suspicious behavior that wgeurts was getting hounded for. I find it hard to believe that Wisdom didn't see why wgeurts' behavior was extremely scummy, especially with that odd unvote. Therefore, Wisdom's questions come off as fluff and as an act of trying to look town by asking questions.

There also hasn't been any real scum hunting from Wisdom, just a few comments here and there about certain players and questions towards certain players. It almost seems like Wisdom is skirting through this phase, asking just the right amount of questions in order to not set off any alarms.

I also think it's possible that Wisdom could've been trying to inch by inch put suspicion on VD with posts 1, 2, and 3.


Of course, if wgeurts flips scum, all of this will most likely become null.

[acryon]

@TTH
Are you still happy with your Wisdom vote?

I am.

For someone who absolutely demands explanations from everyone else, getting Wisdom's opinions on the game as a whole is like getting blood from a stone. I understand that he's townreading MathDino, which is a very popular opinion anyway, and scumreading wgeurts but everyone else in the game remains at a blank. The recent interactions with Mala seem halfhearted at best. Even the push on wgeurts feels oddly lethargic.

What do you find redeeming in Wisdom's activity? I'd really like to know.

I wouldn't say I find parts of his activity redeeming; I just don't find the other pieces damning. The main reasons I see for the wagon on him are due to the way he was pushing the wgeurts lynch. Maybe it's just me, but I certainly don't see scum being at the head of a wagon like wgeurts'. To anyone that feels wgeurts is town, I would be far more suspicious of both Victor and Blindmewithscience. It is almost always the subtle pushing that is by scum, not the hard pushing that Wisdom is doing.

[acryon]

What is your reasoning for suspecting Wisdom outside of disliking his interaction with wguerts?

Posts #1 and #2 by Wisdom are weird because they came after wgeurts' voting/unvoting of him as well as the

obvious

suspicious behavior that wgeurts was getting hounded for. I find it hard to believe that Wisdom didn't see why wgeurts' behavior was extremely scummy, especially with that odd unvote. Therefore, Wisdom's questions come off as fluff and as an act of trying to look town by asking questions.

There also hasn't been any real scum hunting from Wisdom, just a few comments here and there about certain players and questions towards certain players. It almost seems like Wisdom is skirting through this phase, asking just the right amount of questions in order to not set off any alarms.

I also think it's possible that Wisdom could've been trying to inch by inch put suspicion on VD with posts 1, 2, and 3.


Of course, if wgeurts flips scum, all of this will most likely become null.

I am always nervous of reads like this that are so dependent on the alignment of a certain player, especially since we won't get it without one of them dying. I am just not at all in favor of a lynch that is based on the alignment of the most reads-polarizing player in this game.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

The lord says that if victor is scum, then mathdino is most likely his buddy. Jesus would know, he's ISO'd most of the player list.
@Acyron - I love you too, now how about you live up to my godly example, and stop sinning with rage?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Mala, when you get on, tell us your read on acyron please.

[acryon]

The lord says that if victor is scum, then mathdino is most likely his buddy. Jesus would know, he's ISO'd most of the player list.
@Acyron - I love you too, now how about you live up to my godly example, and stop sinning with rage?

I'm not mad. I am frustrated when the game is mucked up by people totally unwilling to give a rhyme or reason for any of their declarations.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I usually don't explain my reads or thoughts until many questions have been asked. Most people on this site suck at playing mafia, or let their ego's drive their decision making.
Everyone's so sure that they know who scum is, that no one's willing to cooperate. I would like to cooperate, and I would like to win this game. Please help me do that.

If you want my statement, you're going to need to give it some time. Lord know's we have plenty of it. I always like seeing what others think of my vote

before

I tell them why I chose it. It really defeats the purpose to feed reasoning scum can easily refute. Encouraging people to think for themselves goes a mile longer than me telling them why to follow my lead.
With that said,

why do you think I might be scum reading him

?

God grace's to you, and hopefully you understand my position better.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm also not a big fan of "democratic" mafia. The kingdom of god is a theocracy, people just get in the way of justice.
The chances of actually catching scum through...
A) Cooperation
B) Authority Figure's

... are about 100% guaranteed. I dont want other people's opinions, because unless what you're saying is very thoughtful, it is just clutter which confuses decision making.
I would like to lynch Vincent or Mathdino today, and am not to eager to look for alternatives. Let's just get the job done. With that said, if you haven't clarified your RFV (Reason for vote) yet, now is the time to do so.

[reinoe]

VOTE:

To Excommunicate VictorDeAngelo

That vote is still unacceptable. I have zero tolerance for flavor in votes. You may have flavor everywhere else

[Mathdino]

Alright, sorry, my site activity's been driven down considerably for the past few days. I can't say I agree with wgeurts's case on Newbie, but Newbie's already been responding to that. For one, if your (wgeurts's) reads are correct, Newbie pounced on her teammate for no real reason when it's not even clear that's going to be the lynch. Wouldn't it make more sense for her to jump on your wagon (obviously assuming you're town for this response).

Agh, SilverWolf replacing out kinda ruins a lot of today's momentum.
UNVOTE: SilverWolf
Gonna ISO wgeurts's posts since coming back to the thread and maybe rethink my read on him.

I usually don't explain my reads or thoughts until many questions have been asked. Most people on this site suck at playing mafia, or let their ego's drive their decision making.
Everyone's so sure that they know who scum is, that no one's willing to cooperate. I would like to cooperate, and I would like to win this game. Please help me do that.

If you want my statement, you're going to need to give it some time. Lord know's we have plenty of it. I always like seeing what others think of my vote

before

I tell them why I chose it. It really defeats the purpose to feed reasoning scum can easily refute. Encouraging people to think for themselves goes a mile longer than me telling them why to follow my lead.
With that said,

why do you think I might be scum reading him

?

I'm also not a big fan of "democratic" mafia. The kingdom of god is a theocracy, people just get in the way of justice.
The chances of actually catching scum through...
A) Cooperation
B) Authority Figure's

... are about 100% guaranteed. I dont want other people's opinions, because unless what you're saying is very thoughtful, it is just clutter which confuses decision making.
I would like to lynch Vincent or Mathdino today, and am not to eager to look for alternatives. Let's just get the job done. With that said, if you haven't clarified your RFV (Reason for vote) yet, now is the time to do so.

First of all, I just want to say from reading the thread yesterday "I love this guy", and his posts really aren't that hard to read. Impressed that he manages to keep up the posting style. But that's got nothing to do with his content...

Brother, you don't get to replace into the thread and set yourself up as town leader to strongarm reads out of people and say your ego isn't driving your decision making. ISO me and you'll find plenty of reasons I have for my reads; I don't care to repeat because it saves you the work of going through my more detailed cases. So no, I'm not participating in your "encouraging people to think for themselves"; I think I'm doing fine without it.

"Cooperation" and "Authority figures"??? By that you mean "Cooperation WITH Authority Figures", which is very much not cooperation with each other. I don't appreciate your arrogance about ignoring what everyone says because it's "clutter" while asking people to clarify themselves.

Understand that I don't think you're scum for all of this yet, but my opinion of your reads is going to be reduced considerably if you keep up the arrogance, since you're scumreading a townie. I want to note though that ASKING to be town leader is really suspicious.

Victor

, I think you're town. If you are, you're the only other one with confirmation this guy is wrong. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

wgeurts, wgeurts, wgeurts

, you're seriously trying to PL this guy while you have a case on someone going? I swear to god, you're playing like a jester...

[St Constantine the Hermit]

The lord gives me the authority to cooperate. Mathdino, patron saint of foolishness, it is you who is arrogant. Arrogant to the passion of christ.
You should be stigmatized for you ignorance. Don't you realize you're the main reason why god wants VictorDeAngelo Dead?
Yes, the lord suspects an unusual early connection and rvs ploy in the works.

The lord has given me the 10 commandments from his second holy advent. Number Five went like this....

If the fool wont cry, he's likely caught in a lie or has something to hide.

Fool, I didn't cry, not because I am caught in a lie, but I had several cards to hide. Victor's vote was a calling to the lord.
For you to come out and show your true colors. Me and Lucifer made a wager. He said that you wouldn't defend victor, but the lord led me to disagree.
Now that you have come out in his defense, without me having to reveal my intentions, I can justly say, I am sure Victor and Mathdino are scum buddies.

The question is who's a bigger threat. Enie Menie Miny Mo, Catch a Tiger by His Toe, My Mother Says to Pick the Very Best One.....it, is, not, you
VOTE: VictorDeAngelo
Come all with common sense. Read through Victor and Mathdino's lustful interactions. Homosexuality! Abominable!

[St Constantine the Hermit]

It feels good to catch scum on D1. Don't you think my precious?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Aye, a new revelation. It turns out that Mathdino could also be a homosexual lover with silverwolf. I ask the citizens to give me your opinion.
Should we lynch thy Mathdino, or thy Silverwolf. I'm eager to see Mathdino finish the silverwolf wagon. I'll join if he rehashes his vote.
I mean, 10 posts ago you were spouting and preaching all kinds of evil about SilverWolf, and now you drop your vote?

Please, let's finish him off, or else the lord will finish you off.
UNVOTE: Victor

[Not_Mafia]

Okay so I'm going to start catching up, should be able to get through about half a dozen pages or so. My first is question is wtf is this @ the above 3 posts

[Not_Mafia]

Got to page 9, if wgeurts is faking a newb town it's a persona he's carried to the whole site, which I seriously doubt.

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

[Mathdino]

I came to his defence because I've been reading him as town. Furthermore, as I said before, I was having a real hard time seeing a Victor/[insert any of my suspects here] scumteam. I've ISO'd him. If you want to convince me he's scum, then build a case instead of tunneling.

Brother, I'm not responding to your questions because whatever I post on Silver will be much less detailed then the case I wrote on her. I want you to read it. On wgeurts, blindmewithscience pretty much summed up all the reasons I have. My major one was mason-fishing.

Sorry, you want me to lynch someone who's replacing out? There's no pressure left to put on Silver, no posts left to analyse, and thus no lynch to push. I'm very much going to scrutinise her replacement though.

Constantine, the majority of the town is townreading me and a good few are townreading Victor. I, for one, came to my Victor conclusion by looking through his posts, and I'd like to think most people did the same for me and him. Asking us why you're voting for who you are is almost worse than acryon answering people's questions for them. I don't mean to be rude, but back yourself up or get out. I'll respond to any actual reasoning you have to offer.