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Post Post #36775 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:14 am

Post by zoraster »

I think it was done to address his concern that tanks don't scale that much. Being super duper tanky isn't that much better than being just super tanky. Not sure I buy it, but it explains the design philosophy.
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Post Post #36776 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:16 am

Post by quadz08 »

I mean, Riot has already done that with at least one of its support champions (Braum's q scales off of his health). It's not like he pulled that concept out of his ass.
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Post Post #36777 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:27 am

Post by notscience »

Still very patiently waiting for my new LB skin
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Post Post #36778 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:31 am

Post by animorpherv1 »

Shen needs damage on his E. probably %hp damage.
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Post Post #36779 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:34 am

Post by notscience »

I think Shen's ult should add in thornmail effect.
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Post Post #36780 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:42 am

Post by Klazam »

who wants to play with me?
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Post Post #36781 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:42 am

Post by notscience »

I can play with you at xx30
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Post Post #36782 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:33 am

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

Shens Q should add morello passive
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Post Post #36783 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:33 am

Post by KaleiÐoscøpe »

Poppy's Q should cause homeruns to the nearest tower though
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Post Post #36784 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:17 am

Post by CultivationTheory »

In post 36776, quadz08 wrote:I mean, Riot has already done that with at least one of its support champions (Braum's q scales off of his health). It's not like he pulled that concept out of his ass.


True, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the case on
every
tanky champion. I want to say it was Season 2 where everyone was nerfed to the point that they did no damage, so the tanks and bruisers stomped everything. I worry that would repeat itself in a situation like this.
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Post Post #36785 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:43 am

Post by Ankamius »

Oh hey, the old days where tanky DPS stomped everything! I hated the hell out of that meta.

The bans were permanently Blitz/Malph/Rammus/Amumu every soloq game and it everyone instalocked one when it wasn't only to feed and be useless.

Also, sunfire stacking. Those were the days.
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Post Post #36786 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:44 am

Post by FakeGod »

I dunno

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Post Post #36787 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:48 am

Post by Ankamius »

Idk, it kinda sucked being an ADC player against a champion that you literally can't escape from.
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Post Post #36788 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:49 am

Post by FakeGod »

I dunno

it was kinda fun killing ADCs when they literally cannot escape from me
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Post Post #36789 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:52 am

Post by Ankamius »

I found it fun to stack Philo's on Cho and never have to leave lane ever too, but that doesn't mean it was fun to fight.
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Post Post #36790 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:53 am

Post by BROseidon »

Philostone 2x hog 3x j4 was pretty much the best
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Post Post #36791 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:54 am

Post by FakeGod »

but do you even bankplank
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Post Post #36792 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:54 am

Post by Ankamius »

RIP Innervating Locket Udyr.
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Post Post #36793 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:57 am

Post by quadz08 »

In post 36791, FakeGod wrote:but do you even bankplank

I wish bankplank was still a thing :(
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Post Post #36794 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:57 am

Post by FakeGod »

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Post Post #36795 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:04 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

(P) Focus - Scrapped and reworked. New functionality: Basic attacking a target causes Ashe to Focus on the target. Focused targets take 4% extra damage from Ashe's basic attacks and abilities. Stacks 5 times. Basic attacks on any other target switch and reset the Focus debuff.

I actually kinda like this change. Granted, I do enjoy being able to R-W-Passive boosted Q burst people to death (and it helps to have the mastery that ups AS with crits), but giving her the ability to do more damage over time might make her into viable hypercarry.

Also, I am 100% for AD scaling on her ult because it's just stupid that you can do practically nothing in regards to increasing your sniping ability with it unless you forsake her W and aa's, unlike with Jinx's ult (inherently does so 'cause based on missing health) and Ez (scales with both AD and AP, and Ez naturally gets some AP from Triforce, which you never build on Ashe). Okay, yes, it's mainly utility and not damage, but I would like to scale off SOMETHING relevant to Ashe's kit and items instead of just eternally languishing at (X damage based on rank+0) unless you specifically build AP Ashe for ult damage, and scaling off AD (even it's, like, .2) is the best fit.

(If that kind of change does get implemented, though, I do want Focus to stick around because it's not a terrible passive, just perhaps not suited for Ashe anymore).

In post 36774, chamber wrote:Here's a champion thats been perfectly fine in the past but doesn't fit into the current meta, lets fix that by making his damaging moves scale with HP?? (number of times this was done is silly).

Some of the make
some
sense (like Cho'gath, though not on his W; that makes zero sense), though.

I really don't like his idea for Galio's W. Not without it's cooldown being close to 20-30 seconds long, being .5-1.5 seconds long instead of two, and not auto-reset from his passive (which is kinda okay so long as it's not possible to constantly reset from allies dipping back over and under 30% due to heals/lifesteal/spellvamp). The idea of giving ADCs a mini-zhonya's of their own without buying the item is not terrible, but making it a literal second zhonya's seems a tad OP. The other two changes to his Q and E I actually rather like, but with his R I think there should still be some scaling based on damage received, but perhaps vastly reduced.

The GP rework actually looks pretty good. The firebreather part of the W may be a bit silly for him, but I like the general idea behind it. As one commenter stated, though (unless I missed it in the guy's original writup of the rework), not being able to remove CC kinda ruins the point.

Garen looks nice on paper, but I do question the reliability of the new W. How would you do that anyways? Hit W, move to where the aura will be, hit w again, and then swipe for the desired affect? Will this work slightly like TF's Pick a Card with a timer so you're allowed some time to choose the aura you want? How big will the aura be?

Gragas's W change is 50/50 for me. It makes sense because Riot wants our jolly fat man to be a displacement tank instead of the S3 AP guy, but is it better for it to scale off himself or off his enemies?

Graves's is alright. Probably will make players be more reckless (Rekkles? Hue?) in trying to up Q damage, but it's not terrible.

JIV is where the whole "maximum health scale doesn't really work. It should be instead based on nearby allies instead of nearby enemies, which IMO allows for top/damage Jarvans to have a passable defense instead of having to buy a Warmog's or something to get any real effect.

Karma's changes feel pretty decent, and his point about having more versatility without sacrificing damage does make some sense. Maybe include some kind of cooldown reduction if the mantra'd Q and E successfully proc on champ (or if the E does damage to champs), though? Unless CDR will affect those internal CDs.

Katarina...you can't remove her resets without removing her identity. Like, resets
are
Katarina. Putting emphasis away from her R (if that is where most of her damage is centered; I dunno, I don't play her) may make sense if that's true, but I don't like the passive change. Somewhat of a similar deal with Kha'Zix, although resets aren't
as
integral to his play as they are to Kat's. Probably should go to a 5 second cooldown instead of 20 for Kha.

I dislike making Mimic act as a literal 2nd ability for her others as far as damage goes, but I do like the idea of allowing Mimic'd abilitys have their own unique parts.

Some of Maokai's changes are good (20 stacks on his passive isn't bad, although that might just be nerfed to 10), but blah to his ult. It's basically combining his old stationary ult with the centered-on-self aspect of his new one, and it's terrible. At least his old ult had the option of being placed somewhere. Making it interact with his passive is nice (and certainly something that should be implemented if the new passive is used), but this particular change would make it pretty much be a poor man's Galio ult.

Master Yi is one champion where I'm arguably more lenient on the reset removal, mainly because the resets for Kat are offset by the fact that she largely stays in one place for most of her damage while both Master Yi and Kha can jump around. The new Q sounds confusing to me, W change isn't bad (although I wouldn't make it break from basic attacks except maybe for when toggled skills would proc like Aatrox's W), but I'm just not a fan of the new E. Maybe because I want that kind of thing to be Riven-only.

I like the health scaling on Nautilu's passive, though I do hope that the AoE portion of his W stops with the shield breaking.

Nid's traps get a cap? HELL YEAH!

Looking at Olaf's rework on paper turned me off of it initially (especially because his passive was one location where health scaling actually worked), but the rest actually looks really fun and seems to mesh really well with his "dive the carry, fuck everyone else" style. Although him gaining more speed when attacked doesn't seem to mesh with being a berserker. Getting more AD does, though, or AS.

Poppy...okay, first of all, "Whomper"? Is that seriously the name of her hammer? If not, fucking change that, please. *deep breath* okay, now that that's done, this rework is actually pretty okay. I think that the CC removal should be CC reduction, but allowing other champs to hurt her during the ult is fairly okay.

Shen is another champ where health scaling works, given he is supposed to be a tank in the first place.

For Swain...the tactical aspect of the Q change is decent, but I guess I'm leery of putting ward/lens-style vision control into regular abilities like this.

Taric's is...okay. Cool, fits his
outrageous
flair, but I can't help be feel ambivalent. Maybe it's just me.

In comparison, I feel unnaturally giddy for the changes to Volibear, though that may be because I like the champion overall. My one big gripe is in how his E is a skillshot that's the same length and width as Morg's Q. That's a
big
no-no. Either keep the range and make there be a travel time, or shorten the range and make it instant. A 1350-ish range fear+slow on champs, even as a skillshot, is too OP IMO.

The new Wukong passive...kinda does nothing for him, really. I guess it gives him a way to sneak both into a fight for his combo as well as a way to sneak out, but...

Xin's is pretty decent, if we focus on him being a disruptor and semi-bodyguard.

Guy in comment section wrote:If Shen decides to run off and splitpush while his team pushes another lane, there's nothing the enemy team can do to react that doesn't leave them fundamentally disadvantaged. There's the second reason Shen has to live with terrible numbers.

Question. What makes this fundamentally different from a Zed/Vayne/Jayce/Jax/Irelia splitpush? The fact that Shen's split is based off his tankiness instead of his ability to win 1v1s based off his abilities and mechanics?

Hell, what makes it different from, say, a Nasus splitpush, since Nasus regularly builds tanky as well. Or even from tanks who can also double as splitpushers?

In post 36783, KaleiÐoscøpe wrote:Poppy's Q should cause homeruns to the nearest tower though

Just like Lee Sin's ult auto-wins the game for you?


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Post Post #36796 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:09 am

Post by quadz08 »

In post 36795, Voidedmafia wrote:Question. What makes this fundamentally different from a Zed/Vayne/Jayce/Jax/Irelia splitpush? The fact that Shen's split is based off his tankiness instead of his ability to win 1v1s based off his abilities and mechanics?

Hell, what makes it different from, say, a Nasus splitpush, since Nasus regularly builds tanky as well. Or even from tanks who can also double as splitpushers?

shen can come back to the team with an ability, not a summoner spell.
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Post Post #36797 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:11 am

Post by chamber »

In post 36795, Voidedmafia wrote:Question. What makes this fundamentally different from a Zed/Vayne/Jayce/Jax/Irelia splitpush? The fact that Shen's split is based off his tankiness instead of his ability to win 1v1s based off his abilities and mechanics?

Hell, what makes it different from, say, a Nasus splitpush, since Nasus regularly builds tanky as well. Or even from tanks who can also double as splitpushers?


Shen's ult lets him rejoin his team super efficiently if they get caught in a fight.

quadz beat me to it apparently, leaving this here anyway.
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Post Post #36798 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:22 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

In post 36796, quadz08 wrote:shen can come back to the team with an ability, not a summoner spell.

but both Shen's ult and Teleport have long cooldowns, and Teleport's is actually shorter if it's on a tower/cancelled (which may well be outweighed by the shield on Shen's ult, but still).

I mean, if your point is that it's better because it's on an ability and thus can have a little extra instead of having to be generalized, then I guess I can concede, but if it's just that Shen has it as an ability instead of a spell, I'm not getting it.
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Post Post #36799 (ISO) » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:03 pm

Post by Siveure DtTrikyp »

Didn't riot change leblanc's ult the OTHER way in her rework because it only ever got used with Q?

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