Android: Netrunner: The Living Card Game

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Post Post #175 (ISO) » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:37 am

Post by mykonian »

decided to post about this deck, because it makes shanba dispair (another siphon!? you have already won, I wish you had multi access cards!) and because Buttons doesn't think Reina is an identity. The deck also works against people who aren't Shanba, since it had similar results and gameplay against other people.



On shanba's request I have put in indexing at some point as a wincondition. It's nice because you already have the recursion set up for it, so corp better respect your threat on R&D as well. The anarch resource set is just pure fun in combination with cred denial elsewhere. Joshua and John do so much work if they don't get trashed, data leak reversal is a win condition in the rare games where people don't respect it. Usually it dies in a turn. As with the noise deck earlier, I believe Armitage is mandatory. This deck doesn't particulary mind being poor, it does mind being broke. Armitage is probably the best way to deal with closed accounts.

The cool stuff happens in the breakers though, where the synergy between deep red and overmind can be abused, while the click saved on night and rook is nice, but it feels not straight up awesome. I do like playing with the chess pieces, it's a really cool concept. Parasite is there to deal with quandary, mostly so far. But basically, they rez ice at a premium, I want to make it useless in some way.

It's in Reina because apart from the Jinteki RP's, I don't see many asset based economies (bit different in mafiascum games). I don't think I'd get a lot of profit out of wizard in many matchups. Consequence is that I would indeed struggle against something really going for a drip economy.
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Post Post #176 (ISO) » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:12 am

Post by mykonian »

To talk about it in scumchat:
Spoiler: deck with bishop


I tried to make a deck which included bishop, which I had seen play well a while back. Took a while, but I found the decklist, and the above is remotely based on it. It's probably not as good as the original, but it has a certain amount of inevitability which is pleasant, but it comes at a cost. Morning star is unwieldy, compared to corroder for the lategame you are a memory short (hence the awkward akamatsu). Siphon isn't a strategy which I don't think is particulary great given that currently everybody expects it, the deck is horribly inconsistent since you more or less depend on drawing into your breakers, and it cuts a corner on the plascretes. The lucky find inclusion is mediocre and a signal that I could basically not find cards to spend influence on very well, that did what I wanted. I'm not sure about pro-contracts, the first iteration was with corroder already saw moments with a lack of money and I pushed in some more economy when introducing morning star (I was already toying with the idea when I played you buttons, so you can't claim partial responsibility for that one :P). Mr Li did not get used too often in those games but it does mitigate the biggest issue this deck has. I might switch that back. Clone chips are well spend influence, I like those, not sure if I need more.
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Post Post #177 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:57 am

Post by mykonian »

someone make me enthusiastic for any of the upstalk cards :( There's not a single one I really want to play with.
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Post Post #178 (ISO) » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:18 am

Post by TheButtonmen »

HB Zero point agenda is incredibly interesting in both glacier HB (2 3's and a zero) or HB FA (3 2's and a zero).

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Post Post #179 (ISO) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:27 am

Post by hitogoroshi »

In post 177, mykonian wrote:someone make me enthusiastic for any of the upstalk cards :( There's not a single one I really want to play with.


Lotus Field means you can just ICE a fucking Central without Parasite shitting in your wheaties. If they can't break Taurus trace you get to trash even if they beat the trace as long as you spend enough. Mother Goddess owns bones.
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Post Post #180 (ISO) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:40 am

Post by mykonian »

I like lamprey. The rest is boring :(



This is the last try I made at this deck, took out crypsis put in darwin. I kept discarding crypsis (it's kind of too expensive, really), but probably am going to need to access for a big run someday. Grimoire is still in for the one game where I need the memory. Haven't gotten to that point yet. It's mean to the opponent, but it's fun for me!
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Post Post #181 (ISO) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:42 am

Post by Anatole Kuragin »

If me and my wife went to a store and picked up an open copy, sat down, and played netrunner for the first time - how difficult would it be to get into a game within like 20 minutes?

We've both got experience with all kinds of eurogames and MtG.
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Post Post #182 (ISO) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 10:53 am

Post by Patrick »

Probably not too hard, if only with the base set?
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Post Post #183 (ISO) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:17 pm

Post by Patrick »

Incidentally, I think Lotus Field is a lovely piece of ice, that should be seen as a 1-2 off in many kinds of decks, but probably not as a 3 off. Early on it's a pretty expensive rez to just end the run, at a time when you'd rather be rezzing Quandary or Enigma, and lategame it won't tax the runner alot once they've found their best solution, but early-midgame it's a great ice to use to push through an agenda or two or block off Siphons on HQ, forcing the runner to spend more time finding a way round it. The 1 influence cost is a nice bonus.
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Post Post #184 (ISO) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:44 pm

Post by TheButtonmen »

I'm a fan of it in other peoples decks, the fact that people are starting to use it means that the traditional anarch breaker criminal is having to change their decks to be able to effectively deal with it. This in turn dilutes their decks and make them comparatively worse against whatever I'm running even though I'm not dedicating slots or influence to Lotus Field. I'm not really sure I'd ever be really excited to run a copy of it though because there are less expensive codegates to force them to get a breaker and there are better taxing codegates for me to spend credits / influence on.
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Post Post #185 (ISO) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:49 pm

Post by hitogoroshi »

For me it's not about the breakers, it's about Parasite end of story. I used to run Himutsu-Bako as my anti-Parasite tech but that doesn't work against paid speed parasites, so I'm happy to have Lotus Field.
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Post Post #186 (ISO) » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:51 pm

Post by mykonian »

(midori)

but yes, you are right. Parasite feels more threatening than yog is.
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Post Post #187 (ISO) » Mon Aug 25, 2014 6:00 am

Post by Patrick »

Post written while bored without internet. Here is my Jinteki RP deck, the best bet I have for seeing off the pressure applied by Myko's Noise.

Jinteki: Replicating Perfection

Agenda (9)

Nisei MKII x3
The Future Perfect x2
NAPD Contract x2
Philotic Entaglement x1
Fetal AI x1

Asset (10)

Jackson Howard x3
Sundew x3
Mental Health Clinic x2
Melange Mining Corp x1
Snare! x1

Operation (9)

Hedge Fund x3
Celebrity Gift x3
Closed Accounts x1
Subliminal Messaging x1
Enhanced Login Protocol x1

Upgrade (4)

Caprice Nisei x2
Ash 2X3ZB9CY x2

Barrier (4)

Himitsu-Bako x1
Eli 1.0 x1
Bastion x1
Wall of Thorns x1

Codegate (6)

Quandary x1
Yagura x1
Lotus Field x1
Tollbooth x2
Inazuma x1

Sentry (7)

Komainu x3
Pup x2
Tsurugi x2

Fairly normal RP theme, with the monstrous economy, taxing ice and annoying ID ability. It usually only takes one well protected Sundew or Melange to give this deck an economic lead, which you can then aim to convert into points with an Ash and/or Caprice protected remote. Enhanced Login Protocol was added when Spaces Between came out and so far has yielded nice results when I see it, far more than the very situational Taurus that was in the deck before mainly as a placeholder.

Closed accounts slips in conveniently for only 1 influence to punish any runner who thinks they can flippantly Siphon you without removing tags, and if played at the right time can usually give you enough of a scoring window to push something through. Fetal AI and Snare both provide some net damage behind the ice for runners who try running through Komainu with no cards.

For influence, I'd quite like an extra Login Protocol so that I can get it in play most games, but Buttons's idea of annoying popup windows seems like it would be effective as well. One of the Tollbooths might disappear to make room for this.

Not exactly a new archetype at this stage, but a fun one to play if you're in the mood for having alot of money and playing a traditional game that doesn't try to flatline the runner nor fast advance out 7 points worth of agendas in about 10 turns.
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Post Post #188 (ISO) » Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:30 am

Post by mykonian »

Can second that, it's a nicely working deck. Also, Patrick has a good win/loss against me. Two slightly related facts.

Image

More "facts" through sorting out some data. This is 1.5 years of noise games. First fitted line is Sam suieds noise for a big part, I suspect. Second fitted line is around the formation of the new deck including lamprey. Third line is addition of kraken and the list becoming where it is now, which has been rather stable.

First lines winrate is about 62%, second 68%, third 73%. Either I am or the deck is improving!

(and I felt like posting this because I've been having fun with tossing data around for a little time now)
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Post Post #189 (ISO) » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:33 am

Post by Patrick »

Here's another deck, this time presented in the cool professional way.

Tennin Institute: The Secrets Within (Honor and Profit)

Agenda (11)
3x Braintrust (What Lies Ahead)
3x Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts)
3x Medical Breakthrough (Honor and Profit)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
1x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

Asset (7)
1x Melange Mining Corp. (Core Set)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
3x Shi.Kyū (Honor and Profit)

Upgrade (2)
2x Caprice Nisei (Double Time)

Operation (14)
1x Biotic Labor (Core Set) ••••
1x Closed Accounts (Core Set) •
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Trick of Light (Trace Amount)
2x Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static) ••
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
1x Reclamation Order (Double Time) ••

Barrier (4)
3x Ice Wall (Core Set) •••
1x Bastion (Creation and Control)

Code Gate (5)
2x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)
1x Quandary (Double Time)
1x Inazuma (Honor and Profit)
1x Lotus Field (Upstalk)

Sentry (6)
2x Grim (Opening Moves)
1x Tsurugi (True Colors)
2x Komainu (Honor and Profit)
1x Pup (Honor and Profit)

15 influence spent (maximum 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Upstalk

Completely new thing for me, I'm currently at 5 wins and 0 losses with it and every game feels bizarre. Deck much less tuned than my others.

Agendas are normal for a deck that wants to fast advance, with the exception of the Future Perfect, which is just there to give me a bonus cardslot and not get easily swiped out of centrals. In time this may just become an NAPD and a 3/1 agenda - any of Gila Hands, House of Knives or Profiteering could work, I think. Economy is mainly operations, and though there doesn't seem to be that much, I haven't felt too poor in any of the games I've played. A single melange because it can still make you richer than god if you can put it behind something they can't break for a while and ping it for a few turns. Of course the idea is to avoid setting up remotes at all so the runner can't get easy successful runs to turn off your ID ability.

Ice combines cheap early game ice with some medium more taxing ice that seems typical of fast advance decks, along with Jinteki staples like Komainu. I'm also starting to love Yagura more and more. Obviously 3 ice walls to benefit from Tennin tokens.

Influence has switched around alot already, with a couple of SanSans coming out in favour of Biotic, and Junbug/Mushin coming out because I wasn't using them. I wouldn't mind using one more ice that can be advanced, but I'm not too convinced by Tyrant. Could Shadow warrant one cardslot, especially with closed accounts?

Refreshing deck to play, even though it's not what you'd consider top tier at the moment. Could become stronger with the next pack.
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Post Post #190 (ISO) » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:05 am

Post by mykonian »

All in all, taxing is nice but you really want no runs to come through whether economically or simply by ETR. Shadow doesn't really do either. I wouldn't go that way in this deck.
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Post Post #191 (ISO) » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:59 am

Post by mykonian »

First contact is rezzed on OCTGN, and these are exciting times! People are obviously going to see what damage quetzal can do, but then I suspect unless someone figures out an e3 anarch deck, it's not going to do so much new.

The thing that interests me most is that a stealth deck should now be possible (in shaper). There's refractor, blackkat, dagger (of which dagger is the only one useless without setup), ghost runner, cloak, as well as the in faction stealth hardware. Now, refractor should be the shit. The popular early game code gates it can break like that, it is a 1 cost breaker (!!!). Blackkat doesn't need stealth creds really, but can abuse them if you can spend them. The main downside over corroder feels like it's influence, for the popular early game barriers it's just as cheap to use or even better, and with stealth creds it takes out eli cheaply (which is the winningest ice). It's cost is indeed a downside, but those two creds feel like a good investment. Dagger is the worst obviously, but the moment you get stealth creds, there's nothing like it. In my opinion, if you do build up a stealth rig, your late game is set. Nothing keeps you out.

The problem is getting there. I have no clue where to start. What money do you want, how do you deal with the memory usage, what's your win conditions... You guys got any ideas?
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Post Post #192 (ISO) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:34 am

Post by Patrick »

Blue Sun: Powering the Future (Up and Over)

Agenda (8)
1x Eden Fragment (The Spaces Between)
1x Government Contracts (A Study in Static)
1x Hades Fragment (Up and Over)
1x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Atlas (What Lies Ahead)
1x The Cleaners (Second Thoughts)

Asset (7)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
2x PAD Campaign (Core Set)
1x Reversed Accounts (Up and Over) •
1x The Root (Upstalk)

Upgrade (2)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) ••••

Operation (14)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Oversight AI (A Study in Static)
2x Paywall Implementation (The Spaces Between)
3x Punitive Counterstrike (True Colors)
3x Restructure (Second Thoughts)
2x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)

Barrier (8)
2x Changeling (Up and Over)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) •••
2x Hadrian's Wall (Core Set)
1x Ice Wall (Core Set)

Code Gate (6)
2x Enigma (Core Set)
1x Quandary (Double Time)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set) ••••
1x Wendigo (First Contact)

Sentry (4)
3x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead)
1x Shadow (Core Set)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Up and Over

This is my first attempt at making a deck with blue sun. Basic idea is a glacier with a flatline threat to act as a deterrent / alternate wincon. So far 6 wins, 0 losses, with 2 of the wins being punitive kills. The ability to immediately sell a large piece of ice to burst up in money provides a much stronger kill threat than other factions using Punitives.

Splashes are mostly normal glacier cards to compensate for the unexciting Weyland ice suite and lack of defensive upgrades, though the newish cards Changeling and Wendigo have exceeded expectations so far. Blue Suns ability to rearrange ice as you please makes cards like Wendigo/Inazuma/Chum better than usual, and if I had spare influence I'd look at including Chum somewhere. Oversight AI of course takes advantage of Blue sun to allow you to immediately rez big ice at a cost of 1, then bounce them back into HQ for a profit.

Economy aims to put the runner in a lose/lose situation, giving you money if they run at you due to Paywall, and giving you money if they don't run due to Subliminal messaging. Restructure works brilliantly since you can almost always use the ID to get yourself up to the required 10 credits. The Root has had good reviews in Blue Sun but I've yet to use it to any great effect - may replace if I don't figure it out.

Possible replacements:
Shadow >>> Taurus, since Taurus can take out a console or Plascrete, and it's normal downside of sometimes becoming useless doesn't matter as much when you can Pwnshop it back. Shadow currently exists to buff sentry numbers and earn money while bluffing scorched.
The Root >>> anything basically, possibly a second Oversight AI, possibly Private Contracts.

Once again, playing a new faction provides a refreshing new take on the game.
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Post Post #193 (ISO) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:21 pm

Post by Oman »

I've just started playing. It's awesome. Going to play my second night of real games tonight!

Playing a standard kind of Gabe deck heavy on run events, focused on economy because as a newbie I often make bad run choices and burn cash needlessly.

Also running a HB glacier deck because I don't have the cards to make NBN fast advance work and I'm terrified of runners.

I'm at the point in the game where I feel like when I'm a runner I CANNOT figure out how to break ice, and when I'm the Corp runners just have all their tricks in hand. I'm definitely learning.

My first games were with a core Noise deck and a core NBN deck and that is fucking hard and I do not recommend it.
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Post Post #194 (ISO) » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:51 pm

Post by chamber »

In post 193, Oman wrote:I've just started playing. It's awesome. Going to play my second night of real games tonight!

Playing a standard kind of Gabe deck heavy on run events, focused on economy because as a newbie I often make bad run choices and burn cash needlessly.

Also running a HB glacier deck because I don't have the cards to make NBN fast advance work and I'm terrified of runners.

I'm at the point in the game where I feel like when I'm a runner I CANNOT figure out how to break ice, and when I'm the Corp runners just have all their tricks in hand. I'm definitely learning.

My first games were with a core Noise deck and a core NBN deck and that is fucking hard and I do not recommend it.


I don't know if this advice will help you or not, but when I first started playing I thought too much in absolute terms; making an unbreakable ice wall, or being able to get past any defense. Really its an economy game where you have to out maneuver your opponent into being temporarily poor to create a window of opportunity for yourself.
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Post Post #195 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:41 am

Post by Oman »

I think I was definitely in that camp. Breaking ICE requires resources, always requires credits. So I started playing criminal and I love controlling the flow of the game with my large income and my ability to get to HQ through archives and the rest. It's a fun game.


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Post Post #196 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:01 am

Post by Patrick »

I also started off with HB Glacier and then Gabe, which I think are two of the easiest IDs to pick up and play. If you're using Core set only you have the cards to play fast advance (SanSan and Biotic Labour), but if I'm not mistaken the agendas available basically force you to use Priority Req and Private Security Force, which would be very awkward.
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Post Post #197 (ISO) » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:30 pm

Post by Oman »

Yeah pretty much. I was playing a game where we were both on six points, I was RnD locked with 3 interfaces and needed to score out the PSF in my hand. PSF is a 4/2. Which (when not NAPD) is the worst. Still happy that I got to where I was though.

EDIT: The problem with core set fast advance is that yes I have two astro and a san san, and two biotics I think, but with only one San San there's no consistency to the deck. Consistency is the problem with core set. They need to release a core set booster with the other two copies of all those cards :P
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Post Post #198 (ISO) » Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:38 pm

Post by InflatablePie »

started playing again since I found a casual group that plays on Wednesday nights and can balance this and Magic. bought Humanity's Shadow and Trace Amounts, so I now have the first cycle minus Study in Static, and Opening Moves (+1s of the Core 2-ofs).

had some fun with NBN Midseason PsychoBeale (and a shitty Jinteki deck while esurio played NBN) on the corp side and a simple Chaos Theory Dino-Deck for runner.

really need a second core set for both the seconds of Desperado/Grimoire/SanSan, and extras of commons/uncommons so I don't have to cannibalize every deck for Hedge Funds etc/so esurio and I can more easily switch sides when playing back-to-back.

probably just gonna deal with the inconvenience though and save for Study in Static and a big box (prob C&C).

anyone have a way to look at really old meta decks? interested in what was popular around Opening Moves release since I'm probably buying somewhat in release order from here on out.
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Joined: May 3, 2006
Location: England

Post Post #199 (ISO) » Thu Oct 30, 2014 1:18 am

Post by Patrick »

Primpod 11:13 pm
chamber can you please come to ukmeet
i would love to finally touch your face

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