Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)
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Riddleton
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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In post 654, St Constantine the Hermit wrote:Riddleton, my love, my main account is inactive. I would know, I hydra'd your mother. That was a different time. When breaking celibacy vows was all the rage.
So you're not telling me?-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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At this stage in the game, I townread Wgeurts, Newbie, Constantine and MathDino. Leaning scum on VictorDeAngelo and MalaKittens.
VOTE: VictorDeAngelo
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Victor
a) First off, we see Victor is quite persistent that people answer their own questions. The conversation between Victor and Acryon here, especially considering the sarcastic tone of the post, comes off as extremely awkward and strange to me. His defensive tone in this post this post is unwarranted, as he was under no suspicion whatsoever at the time.
b) The post on here reads as Victor trying to easily slide on the low-hanging fruit by voting wgeurts. The vote isn't pressure, but yet he doesn't provide any reasoning to back up his wgeurts vote. I don't like how he pushes a wagon by saying "All Aboard" without providing any reasoning for it. In this post, he outright refuses to provide reasoning, instead just posting fluff that the wagon will lead to 'Jelly and Ice Cream'. He later implies the vote was just a reaction test, which makes no sense whatsoever, and just looks like scum trying to back down from suspicion.
c) Post #65 also takes on a hyper-defensive tone, too. Points such as "I questioned why he wanted that specific information. There is a difference." are devoid of emotion and unlike, more sarcastic and joke-y, earlier play. The comment, 'That's a lot of guesswork there Acryon.', tries to passively shoot down Acryon's disapproval of Victor's play. Post #73 and #80 takes on a similar hyper-defensive tone, also, and continue the trend of one-line replies to humongous quotes, to give the false impression of activity whereas there's very little content in Victor's posts. In #80, as linked, he still refuses to interact with wgeurts.
d) Quite a bit of IIOA in here citing meaningless replies to genuine questions and issues. Posts such as 'I don't like #thispost', etc, are not helpful to the gamestate and are usually seen by scum trying to fit-in to the town, without participating much content. We see Victor declaring Mala, my other main scum suspect, as 'town because of opening posts'. What makes you think this? Can you explain in more detail?
e) In the same post, he still hasn't explained his initial wgeurts vote. Nice try with trying to say 'I don't like Wguerts 105. This post doesn't fit the play at all.', but you voted Wgeurts in #53. Obviously, something else has fuelled your reasoning for voting wgeurts, and I don't like you're trying to subtly imply that was your reasoning, especially since the post was made after you voted him in the first place. My theory is he made the wgeurts vote, and just bullshitted his way through it, inventing new reasoning for sticking with it in posts like this. It's a bit of cognitive dissonance. He never has, and I don't think he ever will, explain hisoriginalreasoning for voting him.
In a nutshell:
-Hyper-defensive play which I don't like
-Dodges his original wgeurts vote, cognitive dissonance with trying to believe it's still a viable wagon by inventing new reasoning for it 'oh this is scummy, yeah wgeurts is scum'. Spoiler alert: wgeurts isn't scum.
-Never really provides any content. His ISO is 90% bullshit.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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In post 707, Mathdino wrote: This post is when Victor started being helpful in my eyes and was what made me change my mind on him.
How is that helpful?-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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c (Riddleton discusses wgeurts emotionless hyper-defenciveness). Dammit man, you're running into the same issue. Why would scum go after 'low-hanging fruit' and then refuse to interact with them? If you want to go after players it's easy to get a reaction out of, wouldn't you want to confront them head-on like the entire town did earlier?
However, I can agree with the defenciveness, but just a quick skim of Victor's meta shows that his posting style is a nulltell for him. He does the annoying 'one line response to huge quotes' as scum and town. Are some of his posts useless? Yes. Are they annoying to interact with? Yes. Scum? I'm not sold on this point at all.
Does he do very defensive posts when under pressure as scum, as he does now, by his meta? I would appreciate it if you shared your meta findings in more detail with us in another post.
d (Riddleton discusses Victor's IIoA). I don't understand how you view that post as BS or not contributing. He at the very least discusses blindmewithscience with a different perspective. I won't answer for him when it comes to Mala, however, but this post comes across to me as town trying to keep up with the game and consolidating thoughts so far. Which is basically like how blindme's been playing.
Absolutely not. Every point is either "I agree with this","X is town for #post", etc which doesn't really mean anything. No actual reads in that post, which go beyond a surface analysis
e (Riddleton discusses Victor's wgeurts vote). I hate to say this Riddleton but it looks like you're pulling a potential Victor story out of your ass. You assume that because Victor posted things he didn't like about wgeurts in his catchup post, he's trying to justify a vote several pages prior. Isn't it possible that wgeurts was just the scummiest damn player in the game at that point? I mean literally the only reason I'm backing off of him is because there's no way wgeurts is faking newbtown across the entire site.
Nope:
-Victor's original vote is baseless and is never explained ever
-Later on, we get floods of posts saying "Wgeurts could be scum for X"
-Dodges his initial reason for voting
Please read this for more information. Victor made a baseless vote against Wgeurts, he invented new reasoning to support his fallacious claim as he goes along, as he doesn't want to believe the wagon he's trying to push is incorrect.
Wgeurts has never been scummy. The issues earlier were a big fuss over playstyle. He has, however, been a target for his newbie play, hence low-hanging fruit.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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In post 752, Wisdom wrote:In post 749, Riddleton wrote:
Please read this for more information. Victor made a baseless vote against Wgeurts, he invented new reasoning to support his fallacious claim as he goes along, as he doesn't want to believe the wagon he's trying to push is incorrect.
Translation: Victor is scum for tunneling.
Because town never tunnel, huh?
Your case sucks
Except that's actually not my point.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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The scumslip is in that a scum would never "want to believe the wagon he's trying to push is incorrect". Because scum would already KNOW the wagon they're pushing is incorrect. I find it hard to believe Riddleton would say something like that while legitimately believing Victor is scum.
You misunderstand; That's speaking hypothetically from Victor's standpoint -- that he's trying to push a wagon on Wgeurts and is desperately looking for reasons why.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Victor would have no reason toconvince himselfif he was scum, so that makes no sense.
Victor's not trying to 'convince himself' that Wgeurts is scum, he's trying to 'convince himself' the fake wagon is worth pursuing. You're exactly right in that Victor-scum won't have any motives for trying to convince themselves a wagon is correct, because he would know everyone's alignment.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Oh, right, I know which post you're referring to now. I used the wrong words by accident -- the context I wanted to say was what I said similarly in this post. I meant to say 'He doesn't want to believe the wagon he's pushing isn't viable'. Correct was the wrong term there, I meant it in the context of the wagon taking off and leading to a potential mislynch.
I know, I don't really have much of an excuse for this. All I can say is blame my crap wording at 4am. I understand if I'm the lynch today because of that. No hard feelings. If that happens though, I would like to have the chance to put in why I think Mala is scum, too, alongside Victor.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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I think Constantine is town. A bit self-important, but town nonetheless.
I don't agree with everything he says, but if you ignore the flavour, you can see his posts are (generally) on the right lines, even if the logic is wrong at times. Would scum come in this game so pompous and confident, yet to be proven wrong with comments like his scumreads post? I don't know, I see that as less likely.
I didn't remember his 580, prolly because I did not care much about reading his posts while he was roleplaying. So I assumed his bullshit about scumtells was just a common newbie mistake. Yet he knows better.
I don't think it's a case of 'He knows better', probably just a case of having played a long time on a different site with different meta and is adjusting as a result.
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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You're right about the comment, it is odd. I can't recall seeing that comment before though, I must have skimmed over it or something.
Not sure what to make of the comment at the moment. I agree with you in that it's definitely odd, but I'm not 100% sold that means Constantine is scum, though.
I'll post more tonight regarding this.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Because those reasons don't exist for Victor-Town. There are more compelling points for Victor from my POV, 5, than for him as town, which is 1 (his later posts are less content-less than earlier posts).
Until that quote you showed me, I really didn't have any problems with Constantine. I'm on the fence now that you've shown me, and will need to re-evaluate my stance tonight in light of the new information.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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I am not OK with a PL. I have had plenty of off-games, and at the moment, it seems pretty clear to me that this is one of those for you (at least in that instance). I would hope we can do better than choosing to lynch someone based on a simple mistake.
It sucks yes, but it happens. I've no intention of dragging the town down in LyLo. I'm obviously not going to be a NK target so the only option is a PL.
Obviously yes, it doesn't have to be today as that would be a waste, but it does have to happen at some point.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Also it's not a scumslip MathDino, it's a silly mistake when tired. You should consider the following:
IF SCUM HERE'S WHAT WOULD HAPPEN:
1) I hypothetically made a slip, got called out on it and started to push my own PL?
2) I then dodged this PL the day all the way into Lylo by arguing "I'm town obviously, we should lynch XYZ"
3) Town would lynch me in LyLo., because it would just be obvious
If you think that's my plan as scum, then well I don't know what to say.
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IF TOWN:
1) Made a silly mistake, got called out upon it
2) Stated to advocate a PL as to not make it into LyLo. If I make it into LyLo, I would be mislynched for the scum win.
That plan sounds more reasonable to anyone. I want my own PL, but preferably not today, as to not carry this paranoia into later rounds. As I said, me in LyLo would be an instant scum-win, because of my mistake.
I thought this much would be obvious to everyone, but apparently not. A bit disappointed I need to point out this, really.
I'm obviously not going to start pushing my own PL and then back down from it -- that would make no sense and would be obvious-scum behaviour.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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In post 925, Newbie wrote:Honestly, I think VD was willing to run up the time.
I agree with you and Mala with regards to this. The lack of reads / a defence seems to imply he just wanted to run out the counter to a NL.
I'm happy. I think we've lynched scum.-
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Riddleton
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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In post 950, Mathdino wrote:Finally. So I did this right before the mod locked the thread, coloured it afterwards. Will analyse based on NK flip in a sec.
Spoiler: VC IIoA
Please provide analysis for this.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Brilliant defence A+++ would play again-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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In post 959, borkjerfkin wrote:In post 957, Malakittens wrote:In post 956, borkjerfkin wrote:considering there are no investigative roles in this game, I am utterly unmoved by naked votes at daystart, especially after a scumflip
Wisdom has been scummy all game.
How much have you read?
I'm mostly caught up, but I want to get both of your (you and riddle, since you're both so charged out of the gate) conceptions of the gamestate.
Scumread MalaKittens, last scum might be either Newbie or MathDino. I townread Constantine (although slightly weaker since before), acryon and wgeurts. Everyone else is null or needs to post more. I'll post in more detail on my reads later on.
There have been a lot of suspicions about my slot yesterday regarding a mistake on my end regarding my Victor read. I want a PL of myself, preferably the day before LyLo if we've not got all scum by then.
I think at least one of the remaining scum bussed Victor. I'm looking at Mala or MathDino for that.-
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Riddleton
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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In post 1010, borkjerfkin wrote:In post 986, Riddleton wrote:I want a PL of myself
I guess my question to you is what's your angle here?
If I was a spectator looking into this game, I'd think "lynch that scumbag" regarding my mistake, so I can relate to how others feel that way about me (MathDino, Wisdom). I know that if I get to LyLo, I would be an easy mislynch for the scum. Paranoia wins games for scum.
What are your thoughts?-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Ergo I am confused why you're still worried about it.
The mistake is still valid for Riddleton-scum; I make a contrived case for my newbie partner to bus him and swim in the towncred after. As scum, I don't really need to scumhunt that much, so all cases, ISOs and meta will be less in-depth and researched. Hence why I could have easily slipped and made a contradiction regarding my push on Victor.
Paranoia is still a thing and in my experience easily wins games for scum. I just don't want that to happen for us if we get to LyLo.-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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I can't defend my meta bc thats accurate -- Ido bus as scum.. just saying that beingsimilar to scum-me doesn'tmean I'm scum
if thays the majority of your case then congrats for misrepping a townie with similar metas... I'm sorry that being right about victor meabs I'm scum bussing him.
can't provide mala case. phkne posting now-
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Riddleton Mafia Scum
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