Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[Wisdom]

I don't buy that. Experienced players know there are no scumtells and everything is circumstantial. And the fact he himself posted things that said this show he's an experienced player.

[acryon]

I think that’s the issue for me. He isn’t posting as an uninformed player. He is clearly posting with confidence, and very often when someone is trying to lay down what is and isn’t scum in general, they are doing so to separate themselves from the picture they paint of scum.
It’s clear he has a deeper knowledge of the game, and it’s also (I think) clear that he was hoping to peddle some trash to the town in hopes of winning us over.

[Riddleton]

I disagree.

Where has Constantine made a post where he explicitly agrees that there are no scumtells (or implies that?)

[Wisdom]

Also I hate the fact he's so self conscious about his play. Posts like "Cmon guys I wouldn't play like this as scum".

[Riddleton]

I don't know. I just think he's pompous town who's in over his head and stating theories and meta which may be true of other sites, but not MS.

[Wisdom]

Where did he talk about meta of other sites? I don't get how you came up with that

[acryon]

Yeah, self-meta and WIFOM is bad for sure. I can see where you're coming from Riddleton, but I think this is a case where we will be kicking ourselves in the future if we let scum playing like him live.

[Wisdom]

Where has Constantine made a post where he explicitly agrees that there are no scumtells (or implies that?)

We already talked about that. His 580 or whatever post it was where he was explaining how scumhunting is situational and psychological. He showed there that he knows better than believing in a set of scumtells like some newer to the game players do.

[Riddleton]

Hmmm, OK I'll check that

[Riddleton]

You're right about the comment, it is odd. I can't recall seeing that comment before though, I must have skimmed over it or something.

Not sure what to make of the comment at the moment. I agree with you in that it's definitely odd, but I'm not 100% sold that means Constantine is scum, though.

I'll post more tonight regarding this.

[Wisdom]

This unwarranted imo defense of Constantine by Riddleton troubles me. If Constantine is actually town, Riddle might be scum going for the cred. And gain further momentum to push Victor on D2.

[Wisdom]

Mathdino, acryon, thoughts?

[acryon]

Ehh. I mean it is certainly something to consider post-flip, but right now it's all speculation so it isn't really worth talking about IMO.

[Riddleton]

I've already said I'm OK with a PL somewhere down the road. I would be an easy target come LyLo (if we make it to that), because of my earlier mistake, and I don't want that.

[acryon]

I am not OK with a PL. I have had plenty of off-games, and at the moment, it seems pretty clear to me that this is one of those for you (at least in that instance). I would hope we can do better than choosing to lynch someone based on a simple mistake.

[Wisdom]

Riddleton, if you can find all these reasons for Constantine to be town, how come you don't consider Victor-town at all and you're so adamant about him being scum?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Acyron or Wisdom are either being reactionary to the victor wagon, or letting pride blind their reason.
So I'm being voted for some bullshit regarding my interpretations of what scum do?
Tunnel, Tunnel, Tunnel, Choo Choo!

[acryon]

Acyron or Wisdom are either being reactionary to the victor wagon, or letting pride blind their reason.
So I'm being voted for some bullshit regarding my interpretations of what scum do?
Tunnel, Tunnel, Tunnel, Choo Choo!

This seems a little disingenuous. Look through my ISO and tell me that's the singular reason I am voting you.

[Riddleton]

Because those reasons don't exist for Victor-Town. There are more compelling points for Victor from my POV, 5, than for him as town, which is 1 (his later posts are less content-less than earlier posts).

Until that quote you showed me, I really didn't have any problems with Constantine. I'm on the fence now that you've shown me, and will need to re-evaluate my stance tonight in light of the new information.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Wisdom, I agree, I've been thinking about riddleton's hyper defense on me and I'm not sure what to make of it.
I think your guy's case and reasoning is incredibly idiotic, but that will be proven in due time with my flip.

[Riddleton]

I am not OK with a PL. I have had plenty of off-games, and at the moment, it seems pretty clear to me that this is one of those for you (at least in that instance). I would hope we can do better than choosing to lynch someone based on a simple mistake.

It sucks yes, but it happens. I've no intention of dragging the town down in LyLo. I'm obviously not going to be a NK target so the only option is a PL.

Obviously yes, it doesn't have to be today as that would be a waste, but it does have to happen at some point.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Until that quote you showed me, I really didn't have any problems with Constantine. I'm on the fence now that you've shown me, and will need to re-evaluate my stance tonight in light of the new information.

This is the stem of my frustration. Suddenly agreeing with wisdom after three pages of pushing his case that I'm town, and now he's saying he's on the fence. Bullshit!

[Riddleton]

I've no reason to lie by the current gamestate, Constantine.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Riddleton is looking like someone who wants to cater to both sides. I can picture him defending me as town for image, and still trying to appease you guy's by saying I'm not off the hook.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I've no reason to lie by the current gamestate, Constantine.

I didn't accuse you of lying. I accused you of having hidden motivations behind your actions.