Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[Riddleton]

Hello

[Riddleton]

I read this thread before I replaced in, I've been following this game.

I've got a vote and case to make tonight when I have time to corroborate all my notes together.

[Riddleton]

Constantine, who's your main account? I wish to meta you.

[Riddleton]

Riddleton, my love, my main account is inactive. I would know, I hydra'd your mother. That was a different time. When breaking celibacy vows was all the rage.

So you're not telling me?

[Riddleton]

@Constantine, and others: Mason Associations should be done later. Analysing the votes to find masons is a huge waste of time at this stage in the game. It's useful later, but not now. Not Day 1.

[Riddleton]

At this stage in the game, I townread Wgeurts, Newbie, Constantine and MathDino. Leaning scum on VictorDeAngelo and MalaKittens.

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

---

Victor

a) First off, we see Victor is quite persistent that people answer their own questions. The conversation between Victor and Acryon here, especially considering the sarcastic tone of the post, comes off as extremely awkward and strange to me. His defensive tone in this post this post is unwarranted, as he was under no suspicion whatsoever at the time.

b) The post on here reads as Victor trying to easily slide on the low-hanging fruit by voting wgeurts. The vote isn't pressure, but yet he doesn't provide any reasoning to back up his wgeurts vote. I don't like how he pushes a wagon by saying "All Aboard" without providing any reasoning for it. In this post, he outright refuses to provide reasoning, instead just posting fluff that the wagon will lead to 'Jelly and Ice Cream'. He later implies the vote was just a reaction test, which makes no sense whatsoever, and just looks like scum trying to back down from suspicion.

c) Post #65 also takes on a hyper-defensive tone, too. Points such as "I questioned why he wanted that specific information. There is a difference." are devoid of emotion and unlike, more sarcastic and joke-y, earlier play. The comment, 'That's a lot of guesswork there Acryon.', tries to passively shoot down Acryon's disapproval of Victor's play. Post #73 and #80 takes on a similar hyper-defensive tone, also, and continue the trend of one-line replies to humongous quotes, to give the false impression of activity whereas there's very little content in Victor's posts. In #80, as linked, he still refuses to interact with wgeurts.

d) Quite a bit of IIOA in here citing meaningless replies to genuine questions and issues. Posts such as 'I don't like #thispost', etc, are not helpful to the gamestate and are usually seen by scum trying to fit-in to the town, without participating much content. We see Victor declaring Mala, my other main scum suspect, as 'town because of opening posts'. What makes you think this? Can you explain in more detail?

e) In the same post, he still hasn't explained his initial wgeurts vote. Nice try with trying to say 'I don't like Wguerts 105. This post doesn't fit the play at all.', but you voted Wgeurts in #53. Obviously, something else has fuelled your reasoning for voting wgeurts, and I don't like you're trying to subtly imply that was your reasoning, especially since the post was made after you voted him in the first place. My theory is he made the wgeurts vote, and just bullshitted his way through it, inventing new reasoning for sticking with it in posts like this. It's a bit of cognitive dissonance. He never has, and I don't think he ever will, explain his

original

reasoning for voting him.

In a nutshell:
-Hyper-defensive play which I don't like
-Dodges his original wgeurts vote, cognitive dissonance with trying to believe it's still a viable wagon by inventing new reasoning for it 'oh this is scummy, yeah wgeurts is scum'. Spoiler alert: wgeurts isn't scum.
-Never really provides any content. His ISO is 90% bullshit.

[Riddleton]

This post is when Victor started being helpful in my eyes and was what made me change my mind on him.

How is that helpful?

[Riddleton]

@mod: V/LA from 27th October (tomorrow) to 5th November. Emphasis on LA -- I'll still be around to post, I'll just be less active.

[Riddleton]

Why are you making a generalization in that we're all scumreading you for one particular reason?

[Riddleton]

Constantine

, thoughts on MalaKittens, please.

[Riddleton]

wgeurts is town. I don't see newbie-scum self-voting in a situation like that. Not much of his play sticks out other than that, though.

[Riddleton]

- Lurking

Lurking isn't a scumtell.

[Riddleton]

MathDino, have you had time to analysise my Victor case in more detail yet? If so, thoughts?

[Riddleton]

The fence sitters should vote Victor already and not make excuses about V/LA.

[Riddleton]

Right, but what if he's not here before DL? Would you rather a no lynch than a lynch of someone who's obvious scum?

[Riddleton]

so good god calm the hell down

Hm? How was my post vitriolic in any way?

[Riddleton]

his VLA ends today

VictorDeAngelo is on indefinite/unspecified V/LA

[Riddleton]

You sound very hesitant to lynch someone you scumread

[Riddleton]

Alright, fair point about the V/LA. The mod has it down as 'unspecified' which is why I didn't want to hang around forever waiting, and then he never turns up.

[Riddleton]

c (Riddleton discusses wgeurts emotionless hyper-defenciveness). Dammit man, you're running into the same issue. Why would scum go after 'low-hanging fruit' and then refuse to interact with them? If you want to go after players it's easy to get a reaction out of, wouldn't you want to confront them head-on like the entire town did earlier?
However, I can agree with the defenciveness, but just a quick skim of Victor's meta shows that his posting style is a nulltell for him. He does the annoying 'one line response to huge quotes' as scum and town. Are some of his posts useless? Yes. Are they annoying to interact with? Yes. Scum? I'm not sold on this point at all.

Does he do very defensive posts when under pressure as scum, as he does now, by his meta? I would appreciate it if you shared your meta findings in more detail with us in another post.

d (Riddleton discusses Victor's IIoA). I don't understand how you view that post as BS or not contributing. He at the very least discusses blindmewithscience with a different perspective. I won't answer for him when it comes to Mala, however, but this post comes across to me as town trying to keep up with the game and consolidating thoughts so far. Which is basically like how blindme's been playing.

Absolutely not. Every point is either "I agree with this","X is town for #post", etc which doesn't really mean anything. No actual reads in that post, which go beyond a surface analysis

e (Riddleton discusses Victor's wgeurts vote). I hate to say this Riddleton but it looks like you're pulling a potential Victor story out of your ass. You assume that because Victor posted things he didn't like about wgeurts in his catchup post, he's trying to justify a vote several pages prior. Isn't it possible that wgeurts was just the scummiest damn player in the game at that point? I mean literally the only reason I'm backing off of him is because there's no way wgeurts is faking newbtown across the entire site.

Nope:
-Victor's original vote is baseless and is never explained ever
-Later on, we get floods of posts saying "Wgeurts could be scum for X"
-Dodges his initial reason for voting

Please read this for more information. Victor made a baseless vote against Wgeurts, he invented new reasoning to support his fallacious claim as he goes along, as he doesn't want to believe the wagon he's trying to push is incorrect.

Wgeurts has never been scummy. The issues earlier were a big fuss over playstyle. He has, however, been a target for his newbie play, hence low-hanging fruit.

[Riddleton]

This is simply not true. I know Riddleton already did but I'm asking other players to look through his ISO, and tell me if the 2nd half really looks like bullshit.

There are 1 or 2 decent posts at the end, but that's about it. The rest of it is useless, hence 90% bullshit.

[Riddleton]

Please read this for more information. Victor made a baseless vote against Wgeurts, he invented new reasoning to support his fallacious claim as he goes along, as he doesn't want to believe the wagon he's trying to push is incorrect.

Translation: Victor is scum for tunneling.

Because town never tunnel, huh?

Your case sucks

Except that's actually not my point.

[Riddleton]

I've not got the time to respond to the scum motivation parts, MathDino. I'll do that later tonight

[Riddleton]

The scumslip is in that a scum would never "want to believe the wagon he's trying to push is incorrect". Because scum would already KNOW the wagon they're pushing is incorrect. I find it hard to believe Riddleton would say something like that while legitimately believing Victor is scum.

You misunderstand; That's speaking hypothetically from Victor's standpoint -- that he's trying to push a wagon on Wgeurts and is desperately looking for reasons why.

[Riddleton]

Victor would have no reason to

convince himself

if he was scum, so that makes no sense.

Victor's not trying to 'convince himself' that Wgeurts is scum, he's trying to 'convince himself' the fake wagon is worth pursuing. You're exactly right in that Victor-scum won't have any motives for trying to convince themselves a wagon is correct, because he would know everyone's alignment.

[Riddleton]

Acryon

, thoughts on my Victor case?

[Riddleton]

Oh, right, I know which post you're referring to now. I used the wrong words by accident -- the context I wanted to say was what I said similarly in this post. I meant to say 'He doesn't want to believe the wagon he's pushing isn't viable'. Correct was the wrong term there, I meant it in the context of the wagon taking off and leading to a potential mislynch.

I know, I don't really have much of an excuse for this. All I can say is blame my crap wording at 4am. I understand if I'm the lynch today because of that. No hard feelings. If that happens though, I would like to have the chance to put in why I think Mala is scum, too, alongside Victor.

[Riddleton]

I think Constantine is town. A bit self-important, but town nonetheless.

I don't agree with everything he says, but if you ignore the flavour, you can see his posts are (generally) on the right lines, even if the logic is wrong at times. Would scum come in this game so pompous and confident, yet to be proven wrong with comments like his scumreads post? I don't know, I see that as less likely.

I didn't remember his 580, prolly because I did not care much about reading his posts while he was roleplaying. So I assumed his bullshit about scumtells was just a common newbie mistake. Yet he knows better.

I don't think it's a case of 'He knows better', probably just a case of having played a long time on a different site with different meta and is adjusting as a result.
)

[Riddleton]

He says he is an alt, I believe. I think that's true, and he's not played here on MS much, but just other sites

[Riddleton]

I think he means you can scumhunt by motivational analysis & by the generic scumtells, I believe. The 'scumtells' post was brought by him disassembling a case against wgeurts by arguing that some of the arguments presented weren't scumtells, and then he said what he thought were valid scumtells.

[Riddleton]

I disagree.

Where has Constantine made a post where he explicitly agrees that there are no scumtells (or implies that?)

[Riddleton]

I don't know. I just think he's pompous town who's in over his head and stating theories and meta which may be true of other sites, but not MS.

[Riddleton]

Hmmm, OK I'll check that

[Riddleton]

You're right about the comment, it is odd. I can't recall seeing that comment before though, I must have skimmed over it or something.

Not sure what to make of the comment at the moment. I agree with you in that it's definitely odd, but I'm not 100% sold that means Constantine is scum, though.

I'll post more tonight regarding this.

[Riddleton]

I've already said I'm OK with a PL somewhere down the road. I would be an easy target come LyLo (if we make it to that), because of my earlier mistake, and I don't want that.

[Riddleton]

Because those reasons don't exist for Victor-Town. There are more compelling points for Victor from my POV, 5, than for him as town, which is 1 (his later posts are less content-less than earlier posts).

Until that quote you showed me, I really didn't have any problems with Constantine. I'm on the fence now that you've shown me, and will need to re-evaluate my stance tonight in light of the new information.

[Riddleton]

I am not OK with a PL. I have had plenty of off-games, and at the moment, it seems pretty clear to me that this is one of those for you (at least in that instance). I would hope we can do better than choosing to lynch someone based on a simple mistake.

It sucks yes, but it happens. I've no intention of dragging the town down in LyLo. I'm obviously not going to be a NK target so the only option is a PL.

Obviously yes, it doesn't have to be today as that would be a waste, but it does have to happen at some point.

[Riddleton]

I've no reason to lie by the current gamestate, Constantine.

[Riddleton]

BMWS, I've no intention of defending myself. I've already laid out my hand.

I didn't expect for the PL to be today, but that's fine as well. Hoping some VCA can be done after my flip. Victor and Mala are still scum. Get bad vibes from TTH too, and how she defends me.

[Riddleton]

BMWS, it's basic mafia theory. Scum keep the suspicious players and the new players, alive for LyLo. People who are acting like VIs or who just made a silly mistake (that's me).

[Riddleton]

Post your reads, Victor.

[Riddleton]

Also it's not a scumslip MathDino, it's a silly mistake when tired. You should consider the following:

IF SCUM HERE'S WHAT WOULD HAPPEN:
1) I hypothetically made a slip, got called out on it and started to push my own PL?
2) I then dodged this PL the day all the way into Lylo by arguing "I'm town obviously, we should lynch XYZ"
3) Town would lynch me in LyLo., because it would just be obvious

If you think that's my plan as scum, then well I don't know what to say.

---

IF TOWN:
1) Made a silly mistake, got called out upon it
2) Stated to advocate a PL as to not make it into LyLo. If I make it into LyLo, I would be mislynched for the scum win.

That plan sounds more reasonable to anyone. I want my own PL, but preferably not today, as to not carry this paranoia into later rounds. As I said, me in LyLo would be an instant scum-win, because of my mistake.
I thought this much would be obvious to everyone, but apparently not. A bit disappointed I need to point out this, really.

I'm obviously not going to start pushing my own PL and then back down from it -- that would make no sense and would be obvious-scum behaviour.

[Riddleton]

@mod: I also am in favour of a deadline extension request

[Riddleton]

I'll check out your Constantine case now.

[Riddleton]

Honestly, I think VD was willing to run up the time.

I agree with you and Mala with regards to this. The lack of reads / a defence seems to imply he just wanted to run out the counter to a NL.

I'm happy. I think we've lynched scum.

[Riddleton]

VOTE: MalaKittens

[Riddleton]

Sorry,

VOTE: MaLaKiTtIeS

[Riddleton]

Finally. So I did this right before the mod locked the thread, coloured it afterwards. Will analyse based on NK flip in a sec.

Spoiler: VC IIoA

Structure:
[Voter] -> [Votee], [number of votes on Votee], [stated reason if any (I'll put a link if there's a bunch of reasoning)]
[Unvoter] XX [Unvotee], [number of votes on Unvotee], [stated reason if any]

acryon

->

Victor

, 1, RV (later says vote stands due to Victor's questioning/defending)

Mathdino

->

SilverWolf

, 1, RV

Victor

->

Mathdino

, 1, RV

BMWS

->

TTH

, 1, RV

Wisdom

->

NM

, 1, RV

SilverWolf

->

Mathdino

, 2, RV/jokingly OMGUS

Malakittens

->

Wisdom

, 1, RV

Wisdom

XX

NM

, 0

Wisdom

->

Mathdino

, 3, "I like wagons"

wgeurts

->

Wisdom

, 2, "this is not sitting well with me"

wgeurts

XX

Wisdom

, 1, "it's all a reaction test"/"there's nothing to gain here"

Victor

XX

Mathdino

, 2

Victor

->

wgeurts

, 1, no stated reason

Mathdino

XX

SilverWolf

, 0

Mathdino

->

Victor

, 2, asking suspicious questions

TTH

->

Wisdom

, 2, "Not_Mafia and Wisdom have both telegraphed scumreads on Victor, but they seem a lot more guarded about it"

SilverWolf

XX

Mathdino

, 1

SilverWolf

->

Victor

, 3, "making way too much of a simple question as though you are looking for a reason to suspect someone"

Malakittens

XX

Wisdom

, 1

Malakittens

->

acryon

, 1, "I don't like Acyron injecting here"/forced looking posts

Newbie

->

wgeurts

, 2, reaction testing and general sketchiness

wgeurts

->

Newbie

, 1, "her vote was very opportunistic and he hasn't scum hunted"

Mathdino

XX

Victor

, 2

Mathdino

->

wgeurts

, 3, mason fishing

BMWS

XX

TTH

, 0

BMWS

->

wgeurts

, 4, "to add pressure on you so that you'll create a good defense to Mathdino's accusations"

wgeurts

XX

Newbie

wgeurts

->

wgeurts

, 5, "I'm town and I'd rather die quickly and give you info"

wgeurts

XX

wgeurts

, 4, "As requested"

Wisdom

XX

Mathdino

, 0

Wisdom

->

wgeurts

, 5, "I don't like this quick recovery"

wgeurts

->

Wisdom

, 2, =24679#p6313218]Here's the votepost and here's his case later on

SilverWolf

XX

Victor

, 1

SilverWolf

->

Wisdom

, 3, "You remind me of scum trying to push the easiest mislynch"

Newbie

XX

wgeurts

, 4

Newbie

->

Wisdom

, 4, "I actually agree with the case [wgeurts] made against you"

Mathdino

XX

wgeurts

, 3

Mathdino

->

SilverWolf

, 1, Here's the context but just read my case if you wanna know

Mathdino

XX

SilverWolf

, 0

Mathdino

->

wgeurts

, 4, SilverWolf descended to 2nd on my scumlist

acryon

XX

Victor

, 0

acryon

->

SilverWolf

, 1, Here's his case and here's another

Mathdino

XX

wgeurts

, 3

Mathdino

->

SilverWolf

, 2, I didn't like her reaction to me/Wisdom/acryon

Malakittens

XX

acryon

, 0, "I do like Acyron's latest posts so .... yeah..."

Constantine

->

Victor

, 1, no stated reason

Mathdino

XX

SilverWolf/Riddleton

, 1, she was getting replaced

Constantine

XX

Victor

, 0, no stated reason

NM

->

Victor

, 1, no stated reason

Constantine

->

Mathdino

, 1, thinks I'm scum with Victor

BMWS

XX

wgeurts

, 2

BMWS

->

Constantine

, 1 "I don't like you, Constantine

Wisdom

XX

wgeurts

, 1

Wisdom

->

Malakittens

, 1, "I'm not happy with her play. She needs to do more, starting with explaining her reads."

Mathdino

->

Constantine

, 2, pointing out associations

Constantine

XX

Mathdino

, 0, "Emotion is a town tell"

Constantine

->

Victor

, 2, no stated reason

TTH

XX

Wisdom

, 3, confusion

wgeurts

XX

Wisdom

, 2

wgeurts

->

Constantine

, 3, "for all these comtradictions"

TTH

->

Victor

, 3, PoE and looking through ISO

TTH

XX

Victor

, 2, "I'm having a reference frame crisis."

Newbie

XX

Wisdom

, 1, let's not talk about this

Riddleton

XX

Wisdom

, 0

Riddleton

->

Victor

, 3, muddafuckin' case

TTH

->

Victor

, 4, here ya go

Wisdom

XX

Malakittens

, 0

Wisdom

->

Constantine

, 4, "bullshit about scumtells"

acryon

XX

Riddleton

, 0

acryon

->

Constantine

, 5, mini case

Mathdino

XX

Constantine

, 4

Mathdino

->

Riddleton

, 1, "more likely lynch"

Newbie

->

Victor

, 5, reasons above

Wisdom

XX

Constantine

, 3

Wisdom

->

Riddleton

, 2, probably same as me

wgeurts

XX

Constantine

, 2

wgeurts

->

Victor

, 6, no stated reason

Mathdino

XX

Riddleton

, 1

Mathdino

->

Constantine

, 3, "Riddleton's last post is convincing enough"

Wisdom

XX

Riddleton

, 0

Wisdom

->

Constantine

, 4, presumably to get a lynch

Malakittens

->

Victor

, 7, HAMMERTIME

Please provide analysis for this.

[Riddleton]

Sorry,

VOTE: MaLaKiTtIeS

Thats still not using it to lynch scum.

Brilliant defence A+++ would play again

[Riddleton]

scum rarely vote each other in RVS

This is false. If you wish, I can provide many games in which scum vote each other in RVS. They do this so they can avoid interacting with the town.

[Riddleton]

I wouldn't use that fact to find associations, though.

[Riddleton]

considering there are no investigative roles in this game, I am utterly unmoved by naked votes at daystart, especially after a scumflip

Wisdom has been scummy all game.

How much have you read?

I'm mostly caught up, but I want to get both of your (you and riddle, since you're both so charged out of the gate) conceptions of the gamestate.

Scumread MalaKittens, last scum might be either Newbie or MathDino. I townread Constantine (although slightly weaker since before), acryon and wgeurts. Everyone else is null or needs to post more. I'll post in more detail on my reads later on.

There have been a lot of suspicions about my slot yesterday regarding a mistake on my end regarding my Victor read. I want a PL of myself, preferably the day before LyLo if we've not got all scum by then.

I think at least one of the remaining scum bussed Victor. I'm looking at Mala or MathDino for that.

[Riddleton]

*newbie or mala

[Riddleton]

I saw this, and I recall Mathdino being the one to push you on it, but if I also recall it required Vic to be town for it to make any sense, no?

The mistake makes sense whether I'm town or scum.

[Riddleton]

I want a PL of myself

I guess my question to you is what's your angle here?

If I was a spectator looking into this game, I'd think "lynch that scumbag" regarding my mistake, so I can relate to how others feel that way about me (MathDino, Wisdom). I know that if I get to LyLo, I would be an easy mislynch for the scum. Paranoia wins games for scum.

What are your thoughts?

[Riddleton]

Ergo I am confused why you're still worried about it.

The mistake is still valid for Riddleton-scum; I make a contrived case for my newbie partner to bus him and swim in the towncred after. As scum, I don't really need to scumhunt that much, so all cases, ISOs and meta will be less in-depth and researched. Hence why I could have easily slipped and made a contradiction regarding my push on Victor.

Paranoia is still a thing and in my experience easily wins games for scum. I just don't want that to happen for us if we get to LyLo.

[Riddleton]

You don't think I'm scumhunting today?

[Riddleton]

Regarding my meta, is there a distinction between 'being right about scumreads' and 'bussing partners'? The linj you've provided is consistent of my scumgame but I don't understand the conclusion drawn from it

[Riddleton]

i know you never bussed victor thats why I corrected myself in 993

[Riddleton]

i know you never bussed victor thats why I corrected myself in 993

[Riddleton]

I can't defend my meta bc thats accurate -- Ido bus as scum.. just saying that beingsimilar to scum-me doesn'tmean I'm scum

if thays the majority of your case then congrats for misrepping a townie with similar metas... I'm sorry that being right about victor meabs I'm scum bussing him.

can't provide mala case. phkne posting now

[Riddleton]

There's no inconsistency with constantine... similarthing, but I viewed constantine's pists as tiwn from that but victor's as scum. tells arebt black and white...they can be different for different people based on circumstance.

[Riddleton]

Stop spampostkng. 30 posts in a fucking row isn't fun to read. Catchjng up....

[Riddleton]

I still think the Victor lynch was a stroke of luck, so meh

Stroke of luck, really?

Why are you so apathetic to the fact we've lynched scum, still insisting my case was shit?

I think someone (wisdom?) already provided a mala case, but I've got one to show too later with extra reasoning.

[Riddleton]

For what it's worth I think Wisom and Acryon are town. Unfortunately.

[Riddleton]

My posts are not spam. I gave many reads there.

Why do you want to lynch Constantine?

Right, but try and consolidate it. Having 35 posts in a row like that is more frustrating to read than the walls.

[Riddleton]

Not Mafia is town. I'm vaguely familiar with his meta, and I know he's more active and talkative as scum, and lurks more as town.

[Riddleton]

To all the 'savvy' players out there, would you consider reading the game and/or checking my iso? See #1076... I said there it's possible for scum-Riddle to have made a contradiction when trying to compile an erranous case on his partner.

I don't understand how people are so willing to conaider the issue resolved... it isn't.

[Riddleton]

Tth is dead

[Riddleton]

Masons should not claim.

[Riddleton]

VOTE: Constantine

The overreaction coupled with the hardcore defence of me makes me want to reevaluate my townread on him.

Mala is still scum; I'm writing case on her in gedit as we speak. I'll have that posted tonight (for real)

[Riddleton]

It's probably a scum reaction, bork.

[Riddleton]

It's this particular reaction I don't like.

[Riddleton]

V/LA maybe? Read my other games... I've said it there. So fuck off.


Not interested in the wisdom wagon. Here's my mala case as promised. I'll just do this now because I'm not in a great mood right now. Feel free to call it shit.

MalaKittens

a) I don't like Mala's interaction with Acryon and vote him in #92. It implies Mala has a problem with activity, saying that Acryon's interjecting and answering questions is scummy. I don't get it. Can you explain?

b) I really dislike #640, and the quote 'Can we not fish for masons'. This was the basis of my original scumread on her; I think it's scummy to be mason-hunting, particularly at early game. Constantine does this too, to a lesser extent but what differentiates her from Constantine regarding this is how she pushes the search for masons, and probes people for mason-information. For example, she asks Constantine in #661 for more information regarding this, as 'I doubt it's obvious who the masons are". To me, it's implying she wants more information on this, for example to have whom Constantine thinks is the masons to be revealed in-thread. People whom are hunting masons should stop. I've already said in an earlier post it's anti-town and only helps scum find them. Mala's mason-hunting is significantly worse than Constantine's due to how more inquisitive it comes across as.

c) As others have stated, the turnabout defence on VDA doesn't inspire me. #728, everyone pushing VDA is "an overeager scumbag". I don't like how she was so eager to run out the clock closer to the DL with VDA, considering it was pretty obvious he was not going to post and was going to lurk until he was eventually either lynched, or the clock ran out to a NL. The hammer at #898 came at an awkward time, and felt delayed to me. It felt like a delayed hammer on her partner, as it was becoming clear she couldn't avoid hammering him.
From this random somewhat awkward defence, Mala than changes in Twilight and states 'we probably lynched scum' (#911), and 'VDA is scum' (#918). She provided reasons for his apathy closer to lynch in #921, 'He could have fought the lynch, but he just gave up', which apparently weren't relevant before the hammer for some reason...?

[Riddleton]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MalaKittens

[Riddleton]

Seriously I'm not going to put up with any more people filibustering the day with shit cases on Mala:

The mason team is Mala, N_M, and myself.

.

Why the fuck did you ouit the mason team like that?

[Riddleton]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Constantine

Very well.

[Riddleton]

You do realise, bork, that they're going to be the next 3 NKs, and the game's going to be mountainous from herein, which favours scum?

[Riddleton]

Just say my case is shit, tell me to unvote and we can move on. It frustrates me that you've outed the mason team.

[Riddleton]

I am giving town info I'm convinced scum already have.

I don't agree with this. If this was true, then a mason would have been killed yesterday. I know, NKA sucks, but this would be optimal play for scum.

[Riddleton]

huh?

you want to lynch town to make it more likely to lynch scum?

[Riddleton]

are you VI or scum, constantine?

[Riddleton]

I think riddleton is town

], and newbie is town just a little more than MD and Acyron.
I'm good lynching any of them just to raise the probability of hitting scum.

@Riddleton -

Yes, I'm pretty certain the scum team is among you

, and that gives a solid probability at hitting a second scum target.

what?

[Riddleton]

I'm town, and not lyinh about the PL. Constantine is scum

VOTE: Riddleton

[Riddleton]

Just lynch Constantine tomorrow. I'm happy with this outcome as suspicion has been on me all game.

[Riddleton]

my god I sucked this game. wow my reads were waaayy off.

sorry guys

[Riddleton]

I know. I kind of wanted the day to be over already as the conclusion was inevitable and the extra conversations wouldn't have amounted to much anyway

[Riddleton]

MD's exactly right, I just lost morale after a point. At a point I was just tunneling... myself... which I imagine looked awkward.

[Riddleton]

Also, you completely nailed Victor, so I wouldn't say you were totally off. Seriously, I'd have listened pretty hard to your reads if you gave a bunch of cases and then self-hammered just due to the cred from the Victor lynch.

I thought wisdom was town, I thought acryon was town. People called my VDA case shit.

[Riddleton]

I seriously wish people would not write cases. If you have to go back and try to find reasons to fit a conclusion that you've already decided on, which is nearly always the case when 'case-building', you are doing something wrong.

Hell I was even starting to do it unconsciously with MD and lo and behold, I was wrong

That's not how I write cases. I find reasons for town-XYZ and scum-XYZ and compare and contrast them. Which alignment makes more sense? Then go with that.