Micro 407: Jurassic Park Mafia - Game Over

[Grib]

That's actually a retarded statement to make. Seriously.

It actually isn’t, but we can save that discussion for later if you feel so strongly about it.

It's you who is being dense. I said Beck was scum, multiple times, you said he was anti-town. I did not say he was anti-town.

The only time I even remotely referred to Beck as town during that time is when I said 'Beck is anti-town at the very, very best and scummy at worst'. That means, if I gave Beck extreme leeway, (hence the very, very best section of that statement) I could see him being town in the absolute best of light. Otherwise, he was scum.

I will concede here – that was the only time you called him antitown.

My oh my, you seem extremely confident up there on your pedestal. Feel like you're in control of this game do you?

I wouldn’t go that far. I’m feeling pretty influential.

No, there isn’t. Don’t pretend one of your reasons for wanting to lynch him wasn’t “antitown.”

I called Beck dumb and wanted to shut him up

because

he’s being antitown. You cannot be this dense.

Wait.

Clarify this for me. Did you think Beck was scum when you voted him? Please just yes or no.

No.

Also I never voted him.

BBT and Grib:

Define exactly what you believe "anti-town" means, please? As in, one sentence, simply what it is and what alignment it is a subset of.

Same: town playing against their wincon is antitown.

I consider tunneling a provable town PR antitown.

fake edit: this post is very relevant.

Pointlessly tunneling on a PR who claimed a power with a confirmable result is phenomenally stupid. Crying that we're "policy lynching" you is just empty, useless noise I'd expect from a seven year old.

If no one unvotes within the next handful of posts then

I will hammer.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I will concede here – that was the only time you called him antitown.

Your whole case boils down to this point...and you've conceded it.

What?

[Grib]

No, it doesn't. A lot of my case is being handwaved as "BBT plays that way as either alignment."

[Pine]

I'm surprised pine isn't voting bbt

I moved off of him when my second choice (Grib) looked more viable for the day, and the BBT wagon had stalled

Okay, I've completed a skim-through. Grib's charge on BBT comes off as incredibly self-serving. Personally, when I'm Town about to get mislynched, I try to provide reads and cases on everyone, so my private thoughts don't die with me. As scum, however, I'm far more likely to pick the weakest player I can find, and offer them up as an alternative. Now obviously, this isn't 100% reliable, as people are meta-conscious and occasionally self-aware enough to avoid stepping in it. It is, however, enough to make me doubt BBT!scum a little. He's not off the hook by any means, but it does mean I want to see Grib's flip more than I do BBT's. BBT can be left to SK/vig

The Yaruwhatever/Majiffy slot hasn't produced anything of value aside from SK hunting. I wouldn't be sad to see a lynch there. I can't help but worry that it's an easy counterwagon to the scum-rich BBT/Grib push

My full reads are more detailed, but right now I'd be most happy with a Grib lynch, BBT acceptable, Majiffy is a questionable compromise

[Pine]

I'm happiest with my vote where it is. We gain a ton of information from a Grib lynch

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, it doesn't. A lot of my case is being handwaved as "BBT plays that way as either alignment."

What are your other reasons?

[Pine]

I kind of also want BBT and Grib to shut the fuck up. We get it. The other guy's scum. Let us sort out which of you is, or whether you're powerbussing

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Nah, when scum push bad cases on me and then concede their biggest point was in fact false, I like to see them hang.

[Grib]

Grib's charge on BBT comes off as incredibly self-serving.

Meaning?

Personally, when I'm Town about to get mislynched, I try to provide reads and cases on everyone, so my private thoughts don't die with me.

Okay. If I am definitely 100% toDay's lynch, I'll spill reads.

As scum, however, I'm far more likely to pick the weakest player I can find, and offer them up as an alternative.

Do you think BBT is a weak player?

The Yaruwhatever/Majiffy slot hasn't produced anything of value aside from SK hunting. I wouldn't be sad to see a lynch there. I can't help but worry that it's an easy counterwagon to the scum-rich BBT/Grib push

That's why I'd rather kill BBT first.

I kind of also want BBT and Grib to shut the fuck up. We get it. The other guy's scum. Let us sort out which of you is, or whether you're powerbussing

Eat a dick. I'll shut up when one of us is dead or he's confirmed town.

[Scripten]

No, there isn’t. Don’t pretend one of your reasons for wanting to lynch him wasn’t “antitown.”

I called Beck dumb and wanted to shut him up

because

he’s being antitown. You cannot be this dense.

Wait.

Clarify this for me. Did you think Beck was scum when you voted him? Please just yes or no.

No.

Also I never voted him.

BBT and Grib:

Define exactly what you believe "anti-town" means, please? As in, one sentence, simply what it is and what alignment it is a subset of.

Same: town playing against their wincon is antitown.

I consider tunneling a provable town PR antitown.

fake edit: this post is very relevant.

Pointlessly tunneling on a PR who claimed a power with a confirmable result is phenomenally stupid. Crying that we're "policy lynching" you is just empty, useless noise I'd expect from a seven year old.

If no one unvotes within the next handful of posts then

I will hammer.

Okay, so BBT called Beck scum for pushing on a softclaimed PR, while you called him anti-town. He called you scum for saying that Beck was anti-town and threatening (sorry, thought you'd actually voted) to vote him. You're saying that he is scum because that is hypocritical.

Is there anything I'm missing? (Anyone feel free to chime in here.)

[Grib]

Yes.

For extra clarification: I play mafia on another site, where "scummy" and "antitown" are used interchangeably. In my mind, they are drastically different from calling someone scum. Scum is an alignment; scummy is not. Scum can be towny, just as town can be scummy. BBT thinks that calling someone scummy = scum, whereas I interpreted it as him pushing for a lynch on a scummy townsperson.

I threatened to hammer because, frankly, Beck shouldn't have been at L-1 in the first place. Would I have actually hammered him? Probably not. I can't remember when this thing occurred, someone can check if they feel like it, but there was still plenty of time before deadline. I'm not gonna cut the Day short over antitown shenanigans. If the lynch were between him and me, would I hammer him? Definitely. I believe he's town but I'm not 100% sure of his alignment, unlike mine.

Please keep in mind that I've been focusing on BBT, and if I were scum, I could have very easily switched over to Majiffy's wagon to ensure my survival into toMorrow instead of risking people siding with BBT against me, which I can feel happening like an approaching storm.

@mod: I'm probably gonna post a little less until Tuesday because of essays and tests and work and club stuff.

oog: happy halloween friends

[Scripten]

For extra clarification: I play mafia on another site, where "scummy" and "antitown" are used interchangeably. In my mind, they are drastically different from calling someone scum. Scum is an alignment; scummy is not. Scum can be towny, just as town can be scummy. BBT thinks that calling someone scummy = scum, whereas I interpreted it as him pushing for a lynch on a scummy townsperson.

So you thought that BBT was town reading Beck while simultaneously voting him, and he did the same thing to do. You're saying that this was a communication breakdown, then?

Please keep in mind that I've been focusing on BBT, and if I were scum, I could have very easily switched over to Majiffy's wagon to ensure my survival into toMorrow instead of risking people siding with BBT against me, which I can feel happening like an approaching storm.

Not if Majiffy is your scumbuddy. Why do you think people are about to switch sides?

[Grib]

He disagreed pretty strongly with how I perceived his wording, so probably.

I'm not scum. I want to lynch him, but I feel like he's just an easy counterwagon.

I feel like people are going to switch sides because of the damn meta defense. All I want is for people to go through the game and point out where town!BBT shines through. I literally can't fight meta.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No, it doesn't. A lot of my case is being handwaved as "BBT plays that way as either alignment."

What are your other reasons?

[Grib]

I've told you like a thousand times to read my posts. It's the one I ended with "tl;dr BBT is scum. Let's lynch him." CtrlF my ISO.

Just because you responded to my points doesn't mean I liked the answers.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can you write it out clearly and concisely in your next post.

Like, 3 or 4 bullet points would be great.

[Grib]

- You are pursuing me because of a slip that wasn't even a slip.
- You never did give a reason why what I did could only have come from scum. My slip is the basis for your entire case, and I want you to back it up with concrete statements/assertions or to just give it up. "I believe" doesn't cut it.
- You don't read my posts. May not be alignment indicative but it's not really doing you any favors. It's incredibly annoying when you attack me for something I did not do or have already explained.
- You aren't displaying paranoia about your scumread's reasons for wanting to lynch me. You're too eager to get me mislynched to even care.
- No one is actually capable of defending you based on content produced this game. Not necessarily your fault, but it appears to me that they can't do it because you aren't town. I am 100% open to a town!you case, but no, it's meta this and he does this all the time that. You are not going to ride that excuse to endgame for as long as I'm alive.

That's all I've got from the top of my head. Phoneposting, it's a busy weekend.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

- You are pursuing me because of a slip that wasn't even a slip.
- You never did give a reason why what I did could only have come from scum. My slip is the basis for your entire case, and I want you to back it up with concrete statements/assertions or to just give it up. "I believe" doesn't cut it.
- You don't read my posts. May not be alignment indicative but it's not really doing you any favors. It's incredibly annoying when you attack me for something I did not do or have already explained.
- You aren't displaying paranoia about your scumread's reasons for wanting to lynch me. You're too eager to get me mislynched to even care.
- No one is actually capable of defending you based on content produced this game. Not necessarily your fault, but it appears to me that they can't do it because you aren't town. I am 100% open to a town!you case, but no, it's meta this and he does this all the time that. You are not going to ride that excuse to endgame for as long as I'm alive.

That's all I've got from the top of my head. Phoneposting, it's a busy weekend.

1) That doesn't make me scum

2) Yeah, I did. I said 'You assumed that town would get a Herbivore PM because Herbivore was coloured green in the mod's intro post and green is associated with town.' Again, how does this make me scum? These two points you're pushing make no sense as

reasoning

for me to be scum. It's basically 'I think BBT is scum because I think he is pushing a bad case.' I got news for you, it's not a bad case, and even if it were, townies push bad cases all the time. Once again, not alignment indicative.

3) Yeah. I am reading your posts and you're right, it's not alignment indicative. So, why would you include this when I just asked you why I'm scum.

4) Did I say 'Pine is 100% town because he just made a good point?' No, I didn't. I simply said, he made some good points. You're massively exaggerating that.

5) You're right, I shouldn't ride on that till end-game. Again, because people can't defend me that doesn't make me scum. Hell, if everyone could defend a townie, townies would never get lynched, right?

So, we've now established that your scum-read on me boils down to...nothing?

[Grib]

Wow.

BBT, nothing you do in this game will make you 100% scum aside from a scumslip. I find your play to be very scummy as a whole and I think you are scum and I want you to die.

Your turn to do a short scum!Grib post, so I can just look at it and say "lol but none of those things makes me scum tho."

[BlueBloodedToffee]

No. You don't get out of it that easily. Let's trim it down.

How does me pushing your scum-slip directly lead you to believe I am scum?

[Grib]

Because I keep telling you why it's stupid and you seem to be completely ignoring my explanation. Like, you didn't even try to say it was a lie. You just flat it kept spewing what you think happened.

From your POV, I thought all town were Herbivores because of the green text in the OP. Yes?

What really happened is I assumed Carnivores and Omnivores were scum because my flavor implies they are threats to me, and I'm town. And yes, the green didn't really do anything to make me think I was mistaking. But it wasn't the reason I said what I said.

That's the part of your case I want you to respond to. The part where I explained, yet again, why you are 100% wrong.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

NO, you're misunderstanding.

I don't want you to tell me why I'm 'wrong'. I want you to tell me how that makes me scum.

How does me pushing your slip make me scum.

[Grib]

Respond to my fucking explanation. It's been thirty pages. Do it now.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

You can't do it can you? You can't explain how me pushing your slip makes me scum.

It's because it doesn't and your whole case has been BS. You can get lynched now.

[Grib]

See, I could do that too. Argue that you won't answer me because you can't.

Can you? I've been asking for this since the beginning of the game.