NY 177: Simple Complexity (GAME OVER: Scum Wins!)

[Psyche]

I'm not scum.

[Pine]

Cool story bro

I notice you haven't done any scumhunting in like a month

[reinoe]

I feel Marquis is a mistake at this time.

And under what circumstances would it not be a mistake? What does the "AT THIS TIME" mean? That rings of what I feared. It looks like an attempt to chain lynches.

-->Marquis is a possible partner,<--

as the point regarding claimed Masons surviving this long is solid.

Why do you think the serial killer can't/won't take care of it?

What happened in the six posts that changed your mind?

[Pine]

Nothing...I said "at this time"

Psyche's flip will inform whether Marquis is a scum buddy or dumbass town

[Pine]

Ergo, Marquis is a bad choice right now, when we can get a lot more info from lynching a scummier player

[Pine]

Actually, Psyche flipping Town would suggest Marquis!Town. I don't see scum faking Masons with a Townie. High risk low reward

I thought that was implied as the inverse of my statement. Also, pretty sure I said as much the previous day, after the fakeclaimery was revealed

Did you not read this post?

[Pine]

I mean seriously, it was in response to your own question

[reinoe]

Actually, Psyche flipping Town would suggest Marquis!Town. I don't see scum faking Masons with a Townie. High risk low reward

I thought that was implied as the inverse of my statement. Also, pretty sure I said as much the previous day, after the fakeclaimery was revealed

Did you not read this post?

Yes, and I disagree with it entirely.

Psyche being town doesn't preclude Marquis scum. Psyche scum doesn't preclude Marquis town. If the town wants to lynch Psyche that's fine but I'm going to be on the sidelines saying that it's something the scum need to sort at every opportunity.

[Pine]

So fine, you disagree. That doesn't mean that you can selectively quote me in big letters to twist my words into saying things I didn't mean.

Get back on track

Psyche lynch

[reinoe]

So fine, you disagree. That doesn't mean that you can selectively quote me in big letters to twist my words into saying things I didn't mean.

Get back on track

Psyche lynch

Twist your words into saying things you didn't mean? C'mon a flip like that in only six posts is something I'm going to ask about if only to get clarification. However you are dodging the "we should let scum sort it" aspect of my statement. In fact everyone is.

If someone, anyone, wants to explain why my reasoning is erroneous please step up to the plate.

[Psyche]

Cool story bro

I notice you haven't done any scumhunting in like a month

ive been trying to replace out for like a month
you are deliberately ignoring context

[Skybird]

Actually, Psyche flipping Town would suggest Marquis!Town. I don't see scum faking Masons with a Townie. High risk low reward

I thought that was implied as the inverse of my statement. Also, pretty sure I said as much the previous day, after the fakeclaimery was revealed

Did you not read this post?

Yes, and I disagree with it entirely.

Psyche being town doesn't preclude Marquis scum. Psyche scum doesn't preclude Marquis town. If the town wants to lynch Psyche that's fine but I'm going to be on the sidelines saying that it's something the scum need to sort at every opportunity.

But the problem is scum has not sorted this claim. Marquis made the claim on Day 3. Both SK and scum have had two opportunities to hit one of them. It hasn't happened. Do we wait until town loses to realize that scum/sk aren't going to sort it?

[reinoe]

Actually, Psyche flipping Town would suggest Marquis!Town. I don't see scum faking Masons with a Townie. High risk low reward

I thought that was implied as the inverse of my statement. Also, pretty sure I said as much the previous day, after the fakeclaimery was revealed

Did you not read this post?

Yes, and I disagree with it entirely.

Psyche being town doesn't preclude Marquis scum. Psyche scum doesn't preclude Marquis town. If the town wants to lynch Psyche that's fine but I'm going to be on the sidelines saying that it's something the scum need to sort at every opportunity.

But the problem is scum has not sorted this claim. Marquis made the claim on Day 3. Both SK and scum have had two opportunities to hit one of them. It hasn't happened. Do we wait until town loses to realize that scum/sk aren't going to sort it?

Again, if they're both town then scum are playing against their wincon by leaving it alone. Regardless if one of them is scum then that means there's a 50% chance of hitting someone with a nightkill and a major threat to you. If SK and mafia want to pass up those odds then we should let them.

[House]

Wait...7-day day phase? No bueno

Mod - there have been several absences, V/LAs, and replacements pending. 7 days is not enough. Please extend the deadline. We're finally getting some life back in this.

I feel Marquis is a mistake at this time.

Psyche needs to be our lynch

Thank God, the voice of reason has returned.

I was starting to think I was the only one that felt it was a scum team.

VOTE: Psych

[Psyche]

what a convenient thing to start thinking

[House]

what a convenient thing to start thinking

House

- You obviously think Psyche is scummier than Marquis, but what do you think of Marquis?

I think they are both obvscum. It's the only way fake Masons hold together for so long, imho.

So convenient.

[Marquis]

I'm having a hard time distinguishing between who's scum and who's town with poor theory.

First off ignoring that, I see town in:

reinoe - cop clear, I like his stances, logical and his mentality regarding the gamestate is so close to mine it's uncanny.
Psyche - I think my paranoia earlier was just that, paranoia. With Psyche posting again, his attitude toward the game is like mine, he's making sense and trying to redirect to himself rather than me, and it strongly reminds me of [redacted] where we were both town.

but if you're already set on lynching both of us,
it really makes no sense not to first lynch the guy who has signaled time and time again that he doesn't have the resources to adequately play this game

liking this.

I don't really like how there were two votes on me, then it easily shifted to Psyche. It's like House even though he's up for lynching both of us, didn't want to be a late vote on my wagon, but only easily voted a fresh Psyche wagon.

Back to my original comment, I think Pine is either SK or town with a bad interpretation of the actions- I don't think he's groupscum, the attitude he's taking toward the mason claim looks like he genuinely doesn't know about any potential state of the scumteam.

Leaving

Skybird
shaddowez

PoE points to these two being scum, not to mention them already being scum on my wagon could be a big reason why it's stalled.

I thought Skybird was just new. Wake's 4093 is what made me feel that (example of why mod comments like this should not happen ever). But I'm thinking now I could be wrong, since PoE and her position on my wagon trump that (example again).

The thing with shadow is that I can accept being wrong about my neighborhood having a scum in it, but having two all town neighborhoods is something I don't think exists in this game, not to mention I don't think got past normal review (they like saying things like "all town neighborhoods get townsided very quickly" etc etc). Setupwise 1 all town, 1 with mafia, 1 with sk is the kind of "elegant" thing that specifically-Wake as a mod would like to do. Whether that's true or not, don't think shadow is town.

My vote is on House because I feel like I don't like anything about his reads or play today. Particularly him attacking me and bringing me up as a lynch option. But with the neighborhood dilemma and shadow taking a very convenient position supporting the same thing as House against me I think I want to

VOTE: shadow

[Marquis]

also I forgot to say this but if you guys can't tell I'm trying really hard to play to wincon. it's really easy not to care about this game but I feel like I owe it to potential yelling people in a dead qt to not just say "fuck it" and let whoever the rest of this town is eat their humble pie with a psyche/me townflip.

[Marquis]

this is a normal
nor-mal
nor-mel
nor-large-theme
mmmmn

Show me where it explicitly states that an SK not coming back "guilty" in a guilty/not guilty report is considered not normal.

Marquis

- According to the wiki, SK can get investigation immunity - I'm guessing with guilty/innocent that would return an "innocent" result, not no result?

so gameplay and reinoe are conf everything town

Not necessarily, see above.

This stands out in ISO btw.

[Marquis]

All that being said, that leaves both Marquis and Psyche in my scum pile, and I'm willing to vote either.

I actually like my Marquis vote based on the post I made the other day. Does anyone else have any thoughts on that, btw?

this is also probably the strongest scumtell I know of
does anyone who cares (and actually knows) about mafia theory want to help put it in words for me

[shaddowez]

VOTE: Psyche

Deadline vote

[Pine]

L-1

Need a deadline hammer

[reinoe]

Personal anectdote time...

In micro 351 I was in a situation where two players were at L-1 and I was the only person around. There was one scum left. I strongly believed that BOTH players were town based on how the previous scum lynch played out. I ultimately hammered even though I felt like shit about it. We then went to Lylo with a VI who was buddying my scumread all day. I knew there was no hope of winning at that point. And I vowed that I would not hammer at deadline just to ensure there was a lynch. I'm getting the same icky vibe and I'm especially concerned about the lack of viable counterwagon more than anything. I think there's a chance that Psyche is town and even if he's not town scum have EVERY INCENTIVE TO NIGHTKILL between Psyche/Marquis. Every incentive.

I'm around but I absolutely will not hammer.

[Pine]

Umm no. You're completely discounting the possibility of a Psyche-Marquis team. They'd have no incentive to kill one another.

[reinoe]

Umm no. You're completely discounting the possibility of a Psyche-Marquis team. They'd have no incentive to kill one another.

So you're saying there's no SK? Cuz if there they have a 100% of killing scum between Marquis/Psyche. SK definitely wants to kill scum.