Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[Wisdom]

Like I said at the time, it's not like I was advocating your lynch based on that. I simply shared the thoughts I had at the time regarding what the scumteam is.

[Mathdino]

Ok bork since we're saying things as they are now.

Why the fuck would I post what I posted instead of noting to myself that those two are possible masons? Scum, like you're correctly saying, are constantly on the hunt for masons. How likely do you think it is to ignore such a connection and post something about it like I did? And how likely is it they'll just shut up, don't talk about any connections, and do their work at night?

Things are simple. I didn't even consider them being masons as I made that post, all I was thinking about was whether they make sense as scum together or not. Yes, looking back, I should have thought that that post could have helped scum greatly, but I just didn't. Because I haven't cared to look about who is mason.

So why are you pointing at this and call this scum? Do you think that I'm smart enough not to do this mistake as town but dumb enough to do it as scum? It doesn't make any sense.

1. Participation in discussion, the fact that the topic of Mala and Not_Mafia was 'hot' at the time.
2. The same as the likelihood of making that mistake as town. Unless you take scumnotes on the fly, I don't think you were actively searching for masons at that moment; you were focused on pushing Mala and NM.
3. Not shutting up like that isn't an inconsistency.
4. I'm actually not pointing at your slipup and calling it scum. I'm pointing at the fact that somehow you're totally aware of what you messed up with in that post, and that you continue to push Mala and NM, whose connection you clearly did notice.

[Mathdino]

Do we really need to get a claim to prove your reads are full of shit? Because I think that's exactly what you're going for.

[Mathdino]

You know what, I'm really really sorry for this Mala, but I think this is necessary. If you want to lynch me tomorrow for pointing this out, go ahead.

Nah even If he flips town you'd never get a lynch on me

Either you didn't ISO Mala when I told you to, or you're scum dragging this out.

[Wisdom]

1. So say I am scum. Someone proposes Mala/N_M as a scumteam. I look into that (or, more likely, have already done so) and.. post that they vote together and defend each other? How much sense does that make? Where does that help me as scum? Help other townies find out who the masons possibly are? The sole fact bork and you first thought they might be masons from my post speaks tons about this. This is not how scum approach this. They look for connections, they stay silent about them because the longer town don't know who the masons are, the better for them, and then they kill who they think are masons at night. They don't inform the town about connections. This is just stupid.
2. See 1. Also, scum don't push possible masons for obvious reasons. If I was scum thinking they might be masons, I would certainly not be pushing them.
3. See above.
4. I was not aware when I made that post, and not even when bork voted me for it. I understood what he meant later. Still, I don't agree that they are necessarily masons. People strongly defending their townreads even when they don't know the other is town, happens all the time. Much more reason for it to happen in this setup, where such things can mislead scum. So yes, I will ignore who is possibly mason and who isn't and scumhunt normally. Assuming you know who is mason based on personal opinion and adjusting scumhunting to that is stupid, imo.

[Wisdom]

Do we really need to get a claim to prove your reads are full of shit? Because I think that's exactly what you're going for.

My reads are not full of shit, what's full of shit is your tunnel on me. But you'll realize you're wrong soon anyway, so

[Wisdom]

You know what, I'm really really sorry for this Mala, but I think this is necessary. If you want to lynch me tomorrow for pointing this out, go ahead.

Nah even If he flips town you'd never get a lynch on me

Either you didn't ISO Mala when I told you to, or you're scum dragging this out.

Yes, I saw this. Especially given this happened in twilight; why can't this be a VT drawing the NK? Why can't it be scum faking said vt (or faking a mason)?

[acryon]

1529 from Wisdom is actually making a lot of sense to me, which confuses me even more because so much of his other statements and actions don't make any sense to me at all.

I'm hoping some of the others can come in and look at this with a fresh perspective. I still think Wisdom is probably scum, but I think getting the others to comment is incredibly important right now.

[Wisdom]

What statements/actions don't make sense to you that I haven't responded to?

[Mathdino]

If it's a VT drawing the NK, great, no problem.

Scum faking a mason would be dumb/unnecessary since all it takes to draw out another mason is a hardclaim.

Maybe she's faking a VT, sure.

But at the same time.
Her entire ISO.
It

reeks

of behaviour A.
I don't know how you could possibly think she's scum faking a VT faking a mason.

[Wisdom]

Scum faking a mason would be dumb/unnecessary since all it takes to draw out another mason is a hardclaim.

Faking a mason doesn't mean that she will go and claim mason. It means that it will make people suspecting her reconsider because they'll think she might be mason.

[acryon]

What statements/actions don't make sense to you that I haven't responded to?

It's the ones that you have responded to that didn't make sense to me and I already addressed that. Your overemphasis on those townreading you still doesn't make sense to me as town. Your idea that masons want to muddy the waters still doesn't make sense to me as town. Your comment about the self-lynch still doesn't make sense to me as town.

[acryon]

If it's a VT drawing the NK, great, no problem.

Scum faking a mason would be dumb/unnecessary since all it takes to draw out another mason is a hardclaim.

Maybe she's faking a VT, sure.

But at the same time.
Her entire ISO.
It

reeks

of behaviour A.
I don't know how you could possibly think she's scum faking a VT faking a mason.

Agreed. Wisdom-add the wack case on Mala as not making sense to me as town.

[borkjerfkin]

Yes, I saw this. Especially given this happened in twilight; why can't this be a VT drawing the NK? Why can't it be scum faking said vt (or faking a mason)?

Yeah that + the hard defending that mala & N_M have been doing to each other really points at this fake scenario

"let's just outline every possibility for everything and not try to determine whether or not it fits the situation"

a summary of wisdom's play this game

[Mathdino]

Agree with acryon that pretty much the entire town's input is going to be necessary for this. Will
UNVOTE: Wisdom
for now just in case town gets jumpy.

If I start talking about wisdom there's really no going back.

As long as you have the same scum pool as me (and you do, with one erroneous addition), just keep doing your thing)

I lol'd.

Edit: Guys, if anyone can confirm that Wisdom's reads are not full of shit, please do so. Even without my and acryon's votes, it's highly likely he'll get lynched otherwise.

[Wisdom]

I assume "behavior A" is mason behavior? If so, I don't agree. I don't see anything in her ISO that would make me think she can't be VT. What you quoted is the only one that looked like a softclaim, but it could still be to mislead scum like I said.

[Wisdom]

What statements/actions don't make sense to you that I haven't responded to?

It's the ones that you have responded to that didn't make sense to me and I already addressed that. Your overemphasis on those townreading you still doesn't make sense to me as town. Your idea that masons want to muddy the waters still doesn't make sense to me as town. Your comment about the self-lynch still doesn't make sense to me as town.

The latter two are theory matters. You can disagree if you want, but that doesn't make me scum.
The former is a playstyle matter, and you can easily confirm it by metaing me.

[Mathdino]

Agreed. Wisdom-add the wack case on Mala as not making sense to me as town.

Mala shouldn't have had a case or a vote on her in the first place.

[acryon]

Agreed. Wisdom-add the wack case on Mala as not making sense to me as town.

Mala shouldn't have had a case or a vote on her in the first place.

I agree, which I pointed out in my overview of Wisdom. I made an off-handed comment about a possible, but

very unlikely

coaching of Mala to wgeurts, and Wisdom jumped on it. My goal was certainly never for anyone to vote her on it, more something to look at in the chance that a wgeurts lynch somehow went through and he flipped scum.

[Wisdom]

Yes, I saw this. Especially given this happened in twilight; why can't this be a VT drawing the NK? Why can't it be scum faking said vt (or faking a mason)?

Yeah that + the hard defending that mala & N_M have been doing to each other really points at this fake scenario

Just why would masons be so obvious?
Mala is not dumb nor newbie, if she's town it makes total sense for her to try and mislead scum with such a twilight comment.
People hard defending their townreads is nothing new. Constantine was saying I am 100% town earlier. Are we masons too?

[Mathdino]

Uh, no, Constantine claimed VT and started fishing for masons after taunting the town by talking about how obvious the mason team was.

[Wisdom]

Agreed. Wisdom-add the wack case on Mala as not making sense to me as town.

Mala shouldn't have had a case or a vote on her in the first place.

Yet at least 3 people suspected/suspect her today.
Do you not realise how stupid this is? Just because you think you found two masons (which you even began thinking due to MY post), you now think Mala is conftown and every suspicion against her is unwarranted. Absolutely nothing is confirmed.

[Wisdom]

Agreed. Wisdom-add the wack case on Mala as not making sense to me as town.

Mala shouldn't have had a case or a vote on her in the first place.

I agree, which I pointed out in my overview of Wisdom. I made an off-handed comment about a possible, but

very unlikely

coaching of Mala to wgeurts, and Wisdom jumped on it. My goal was certainly never for anyone to vote her on it, more something to look at in the chance that a wgeurts lynch somehow went through and he flipped scum.

Well I found it likely. I wasn't feeling good about Mala so it was time to start scrutinizing her anyway. But no, it has to be scum motivated

[borkjerfkin]

Considering you were willing to lynch him to save vic? Lol

[Wisdom]

Uh, no, Constantine claimed VT and started fishing for masons after taunting the town by talking about how obvious the mason team was.

Not the point; the point is there are people who hard defend their townreads. Mala is one of those people. It doesn't make her a mason.