Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[Wisdom]

I'll also lol hard if scum had no clue who the masons are and Bork just gave them the answers out of paranoia

[Mathdino]

You've made 6 pages while I slept, can someone sum them up?

bork's vote on Wisdom was due to 1287, in which Wisdom said, to paraphrase, "Mala and NM are definitely not a team together since they've been buddying and voting together all game".

I forced bork to force me to understand this vote. He told me to ISO the players Wisdom's been pushing today.

I ISO'd them, realised immediately that Mala, NM, and bork were the masons (didn't say this) and realised Wisdom was probably scum. His entire scumlist is literally the mason team.

acryon came back and wrote up a long case on Wisdom that admittedly has a lot of confbias.

Riddleton wrote a Riddlecase on Mala.

bork got pissed off at no one understanding what was going on and outed the mason team.

BMWS came back and got mad about the mason team but otherwise has been fairly neutral (also declared V/LA).

Mala has yet to comment.

[Mathdino]

Oh yeah, and Constantine being dumb as usual and Riddleton getting really pissed off at bork for outing the team (he proceeded to vote Constantine). ISO the mod if you want to see where votes are. acryon and I unvoted so we don't get a quickhammer.

[Wisdom]

Meanwhile Constantine keeps wking me because he's this pro player that can tell I'm town amongst this chaos... not.

pedit: ninjad

[Mathdino]

Got a case coming up? When I say last words, I mean you're pretty much on your deathbed already; I don't mean a twilight case.

[Wisdom]

You'll only get such a thing when and if I'm lynched

[Mathdino]

Okay.

VOTE: Wisdom

Also, just realised,

@Mala

, don't answer that question I asked you about who to lynch if Wisdom flips town. Just discuss in the QT and one of you can post what the dead mason thought.

[Wisdom]

and realised Wisdom was probably scum. His entire scumlist is literally the mason team.

Because, obviously, scum only scumread masons, not to mention inform the town about their thoughts on who they are

[Wisdom]

Oi wgeurts, here's an even better tl;dr

I'm scum because as town I wouldn't be so dumb not to realize who the masons are, yet at the same time I'd be doubly dumb as scum both to push scumreads on them AND out their connection in the game thread.

Bork thinks everyone knows who the masons are and reveals them, while in reality I doubt if even one person knew for sure.

Mathdino thinks that because he has a claim and things make sense, he always knew who the masons are. Also that masons are always super obvious and noone ever tries to mislead scum

Constantine is scum thinking he'll get cred with my flip

That's pretty much all

[wgeurts]

Wait is mathdino mason with mala?
WHAT IS GOING ON?!?

[Wisdom]

No, it's Mala, not_mafia and bork

[wgeurts]

Also Constantine is not scum, period.

[Mathdino]

I actually didn't know who the masons were until we forced bork to explain his read. Why would I lie about that?
The moment bork asked me to read the interactions of the players you were pushing, I looked at Mala and NM. Immediately knew they were masons. Then I looked through the playerlist and saw that FinnLaw was the only one neither of them scumread and who didn't scumread either of them at any point in the game. Thus explaining all of bork's behaviour.

I don't know if anyone else knew for sure. But it was pretty obvious to me at least.

[Wisdom]

I personally didn't even think once bork might be a mason while we were discussing, so I doubt anyone else did
Your problem is that when you see things that might make some sense, you disregard all other possibilities.

[wgeurts]

How would wisdom know the masons?

[wgeurts]

Also wisdom I must say your arguments are weak.

[Mathdino]

wgeurts, if Wisdom doesn't really have much more to say, I'm kinda just waiting on your read through to ask for a hammer. The masons should discuss in their PT and we all know who they want to lynch right now. acryon's given his thoughts. Constantine and Riddleton are being dumb. BMWS isn't coming back til the weekend but hasn't displayed objections. Newbie's already decided.

Just waiting on your input.

[Wisdom]

wgeurts could you read or something? That's not what's being said.

[Wisdom]

Also wisdom I must say your arguments are weak.

Which arguments are those?

[Wisdom]

Also Constantine is not scum, period.

Then why does he keep defending me for no apparent reason as I'm about to get lynched?
Why was he not considering me all day despite being off the wagon (like he said scum were) yet only pushed others?

[Mathdino]

I just have one question to ask, though.

Wisdom, what are you going to do if all your scumreads (NM, Mala, bork) flip town?

To answer that for myself (scumreads being Wisdom, Riddleton, Constantine) I'll turn to Malakittens and acryon.

This is proof that I didn't retroactively decide I always knew who the masons were; I put bork in there for a reason. I put Mala in my own answer because if all those scumreads are actually town, it was pretty much likely Mala wasn't a mason after all.

[Wisdom]

My point is that you have a fact, post-flip, and you act like it should have always been obvious to everyone, when it wasn't even to you.

[Wisdom]

post-claim* that is

[Mathdino]

It shouldn't be obvious from reading the game. It only becomes obvious if you ISO Mala and NM and then include Finn/bork.

I'm not saying everyone should've picked this up. But everyone should've picked this up the moment bork explained his vote on you if they did their homework.

Anyway, you drive a good point, hindered only by the fact that Constantine could just be messing with us all. Will push Constantine tomorrow if you flip town.

Who is Constantine's partner?

[Wisdom]

Solely via PoE, prolly blindmewithscience