Newbie 1546: Binary Trolls (Game Over!)

[Netherspite]

@goodmorning

While I get townvibes from your post, I don't really understand how can you still consider TGGC a townie after his major slip with role PMs.
Are you his scumpartner? It is rhetorical question, don't answer.

Good point about toolenduso's post though.
In the very unlikely case TGGC is the real Doc, there also should be a Mafia Roleblocker and thus scum does not really need to kill the Doc to avoid no-kills.
We of course can somehow catch the Roleblocker with today's lynch, but I find it even more unlikely than catching the Goon if we try to find some scum who isn't TGGC.

[Bulbazak]

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Vote Count

TGGC (1): Netherspite
Netherspite (1): TGGC
Toolenduso (0):
BlueBloodedToffee (0):
Luca Blight (0):
VictorDeAngelo (1): Toolenduso
Goodmorning (2): BlueBloodedToffee, Luca Blight

Not Voting (2): Goodmorning, VictorDeAngelo

It is day 2. With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day ends on Wednesday, November 19 at 10:15pm EST. Countdown: (expired on 2014-11-19 22:15:00).

[VictorDeAngelo]

1374 satisfies me for now. I await the rest of the catchup.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Can we build a wagon on GM now?

I don't understand what we're waiting for.

Catch-up posts so easy to make look pro-town.

[goodmorning]

While I get townvibes from your post, I don't really understand how can you still consider TGGC a townie after his major slip with role PMs.

I don't really think it's a slip in either direction, nor do I consider the discussion about it alignment-indicative.

We of course can somehow catch the Roleblocker with today's lynch, but I find it even more unlikely than catching the Goon

Why?

1374 satisfies me for now. I await the rest of the catchup.

I'm working on it RIGHT NOW.

Can we build a wagon on GM now?

I don't understand what we're waiting for.

Catch-up posts so easy to make look pro-town.

What up with all the mildly threatened-looking posting since I replaced in? You got something to hide?

[toolenduso]

Because VDA is town.

When did you start townreading VDA and why?

In the very unlikely case TGGC is the real Doc, there also should be a Mafia Roleblocker and thus scum does not really need to kill the Doc to avoid no-kills.

You're right. I thought RB couldn't perform the kill and also do an RB in one night, but:

The Mafia Roleblocker is allowed to both submit the nightkill and perform his Roleblocker action.

Also,

I'd rather go for 99% scum lynch for today that would give us another 2 attempts to find the remaining scum.

What makes you 99% sure about TGGC? What doubt exists in your mind and why is it so small? Basically I'd just like you to lay out your read on him.

Would you be willing to lynch VDA?

[Netherspite]

@toolenduso

Well, I don't believe TGGC is really that newby as he tries to look.
Also I don't believe any experienced player would even doubt that Goon's role PM states the exact role of the partner.

By the way, did you really not know that RB can submit both kill and roleblock actions at the same time? ... You're on this site for a while and did not know something that I did after playing a single game as VT?... Really?

And no, I won't be willing to lynch VDA because I townread him.

@goodmorning

Because it's much more likely that TGGC is not the Doc, as I already explained above. And in this case we can't catch Roleblocker because there is none.
And if he's Doc then we have only 50% to catch the RB if we'll catch the scum (and it's way lesser than 100% chance that we'll catch the scum in the first place).
So as a result, we have pretty low chance to catch the Roleblocker today.

[Netherspite]

@toolenduso

You gotta be kidding me guys. Again the same mistake.

You were a Mafia Goon in Newbie 1450. Your partner was a Mafia Roleblocker.
After you have been lynched, your partner was submitting both roleblock and kill at nights.
And you claim you didn't know it's possible? Come on!

Scum team is TGGC + toolenduso

[VictorDeAngelo]

1374 satisfies me for now. I await the rest of the catchup.

I'm working on it RIGHT NOW.

Then it'll be finished by the time I get home from work.

Hey Tool, has case on me developed any more than PoE?

[Luca Blight]

I don't know what to think about GM, tbh. I can see some Town motivation behind her post, but at the same time don't see how she can be townreading TGGC.

Tool trying to subtly push Victor's lynch doesn't sit right either.

@Tool -

You ask Nether to lay out his read of TGGC (even though it is pretty evident if you've been following the thread), could you do the same with your Victor read?

[toolenduso]

@toolenduso

You gotta be kidding me guys. Again the same mistake.

You were a Mafia Goon in Newbie 1450. Your partner was a Mafia Roleblocker.
After you have been lynched, your partner was submitting both roleblock and kill at nights.
And you claim you didn't know it's possible? Come on!

Scum team is TGGC + toolenduso

Yeah, you're right. I saw how well it worked out for my buddy so I thought I would give it a try to get some towncred.

That, or I forgot whether RB could perform a night kill and a block in the same night because that's not always true depending on which setup you're playing.

@Tool -

You ask Nether to lay out his read of TGGC (even though it is pretty evident if you've been following the thread), could you do the same with your Victor read?

Here is a summary for you:

Spoiler: If anybody else asks me to explain my read on Victor, I'm just going to point them to this post (unless he does something else scummy)

VDA -- Had his vote on Shiro going into the last-minute compromise session at the end of D1. Kept his vote there and didn't contribute much to the discussion. This looks like scum standing on the sidelines and keeping his vote in a safe place. It makes so much sense for scum to act this way in the position we were in at the end of D1.

PoE

Also, his first few catch-up posts did not demonstrate a mentality of seriously trying to find scum. His later catch-up posts did, but that can be explained by the fact that he made them after I had pointed out that I didn't like his first couple of catch-up posts.

[toolenduso]

Tool trying to subtly push Victor's lynch doesn't sit right either.

LOL this is actually me being more aggressive in pushing a lynch than I usually am. What's subtle about it?

[Netherspite]

@toolenduso

That's why I said "You gotta be kidding me"
and that's why I'm keeping my vote on TGGC as I still think he is the best option for today (99% scum)

Regarding your case on VDA, it's kinda weak.
Keeping his vote on Shiro when he had to go to sleep? I don't see it any scummy as Shiro was top suspect at this point.

[VictorDeAngelo]

I'm back from work and no GM catchup yet.

Nor anything from TGGC

I guess I'm just going sit here and not be entertained. Thanks guys.

@Tool

- I definitely haven't got any feel of aggression off your posting. If your trying to be more aggressive why don't put me under some pressure?

[toolenduso]

That's why I said "You gotta be kidding me"

And yet it's enough for you to say, without hesitation, that I am scum with TGGC?

Regarding your case on VDA, it's kinda weak.
Keeping his vote on Shiro when he had to go to sleep? I don't see it any scummy as Shiro was top suspect at this point.

OK, but look at the rest of VDA's activity during that end-of-day compromise session (post #658-929, ISO numbers 22-42). His primary concern is defending himself. Unlike most of the rest of the players, he doesn't really show signs of trying to find scum or rally town around a lynch he thinks is correct -- which is the whole point of having an end-of-day compromise session. It's like he's there so his name is on the attendance record but he's not interested in town's goal of lynching scum.

At one point (#896) he shows signs of being willing to compromise with town on a Luca lynch. The context of this post is important: earlier in that same page (#879), he resists BBT telling him to vote for Luca.

Shiro looked like the leading candidate for a lynch throughout much of yesterday. It was a safe place for scumVDA to keep his vote headed into deadline because it's not one that a ton of people would question it. If the Shiro lynch went through -- cool, scum got a mislynch. If not -- well then VDA wouldn't have too hard a time defending why he kept his vote on Shiro the next day.

I put myself in the shoes of scum headed into the end-of-day compromise session yesterday and I find VDA's position to be the most favorable: out of the spotlight, contributing to a possible mislynch and subverting town's efforts to lynch scum.

There's also his first couple catch-up posts yesterday.

@Tool

- I definitely haven't got any feel of aggression off your posting. If your trying to be more aggressive why don't put me under some pressure?

My vote is on you and I have been actively trying to get other people to vote you as well (see posts 1328, 1357, 1359, 1380 and 1385). I'm actively campaigning to put you in the noose, whereas usually I prefer to lay out my cases and let them speak for themselves.

The reason for my approach right now is that town needs some direction and I would prefer that it not come from BBT because he exhibits certainty of his reads on shaky grounds and that's exactly the reason Johnny got lynched yesterday.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

The reason for my approach right now is that town needs some direction and I would prefer that it not come from BBT because he exhibits certainty of his reads on shaky grounds and that's exactly the reason Johnny got lynched yesterday.

Haha, you'd rather Shiro have got lynched right?

Shiro was the lynch late D1 until

I

stopped it. Behave yourself.

Jesus Christ. What am I reading.

[Netherspite]

At one point (#896) he shows signs of being willing to compromise with town on a Luca lynch. The context of this post is important: earlier in that same page (#879), he resists BBT telling him to vote for Luca.

You're misinterpreting his post #896. It was the answer to Luca's offer to lynch BBT, and BBT was his main suspect at this point. So no contradiction here.

Shiro looked like the leading candidate for a lynch throughout much of yesterday. It was a safe place for scumVDA to keep his vote headed into deadline because it's not one that a ton of people would question it.

He put his vote on the top suspect among majority to make sure it's not a No Lynch.

I don't see anything wrong here.

[toolenduso]

Well I'm not going to pretend like Shiro would have been a good lynch. But are you really going to tell me that Johnny was a good lynch?

Johnny looked obviously town, your certainty of him being scum was based on reasons that did not warrant certainty and we should not have lynched him. I only did so in order to avoid no-lynching.

Today you are exhibiting the same amount of certainty for equally shallow reasons.

Now tell me why you're townreading VDA.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

A good lynch would have been on scum. Was Johnny a better lynch than Shiro? Hell yeah he was.

VDA is town because I said so.

[toolenduso]

You're misinterpreting his post #896. It was the answer to Luca's offer to lynch BBT, and BBT was his main suspect at this point. So no contradiction here.

So I am. In that case, my point about VDA not contributing much to the discussion stands.

He put his vote on the top suspect among majority to make sure it's not a No Lynch.

I don't see anything wrong here.

Do you not see the scum explanation here or do you not believe it?

The scum explanation is that VDA was clinging to the safest wagon so as to minimize risk and maximize benefit for scum. Which makes a lot of sense for scum to do in that situation.

[VictorDeAngelo]

@Tool

- I definitely haven't got any feel of aggression off your posting. If your trying to be more aggressive why don't put me under some pressure?

My vote is on you and I have been actively trying to get other people to vote you as well (see posts 1328, 1357, 1359, 1380 and 1385). I'm actively campaigning to put you in the noose, whereas usually I prefer to lay out my cases and let them speak for themselves.

Those posts are you 'actively campaigning'?

1328 and 1358 you simply state that I'm your preferred lynch in passing (the posts are mostly about why you don't want to lynch TGGC). In 1357 you ask BBT a question about why he'd rather lynch GM over me (you don't actually offer any reason there as to why I should be lynched). And in 1380 and 1385 your only discussing the case because you've directly asked by other players. I mean sure you parked your vote on me, but your not working as hard to get me lynched as you have trying to not get TGGC lynched.

The reason for my approach right now is that town needs some direction and I would prefer that it not come from BBT because he exhibits certainty of his reads on shaky grounds and that's exactly the reason Johnny got lynched yesterday.

Johnny got lynched because the clock ran out on the day. That's on everyone really.

[toolenduso]

VDA is town because I said so.

I thought your whole "I don't explain townreads" thing was because you were trying to not give away that Shiro was cop...?

If you're not going to explain your reads, could you at least tell me what's wrong about my case?

[toolenduso]

@VDA: In order to get people to vote you, I first have to demonstrate why you're a better lynch than the people they're currently voting.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Firstly, you're flat out making assumptions on why VDA left his vote on Shiro.

Secondly, you're acting like it's a scum-tell that VDA didn't want to stay awake until x o' clock to see out the day.

[toolenduso]

Firstly, you're flat out making assumptions on why VDA left his vote on Shiro.

I would contend that assumptions are the basis of forming a read. You look at a player's behavior and come up with a town explanation for it and a scum explanation for it, and then you choose which one you think is a better explanation for the behavior. The explanations are themselves assumptions of why the player engaged in that behavior.

You're scumreading GM because she's stalling right? Aren't you assuming that she's stalling for a scummy reason and not because she's been busy?

Secondly, you're acting like it's a scum-tell that VDA didn't want to stay awake until x o' clock to see out the day.

I don't believe I've ever said that it was scummy that VDA didn't stay awake. What I find scummy is the convenient placement of his vote. The rest of his posting toward the end of D1 supports the scumminess of that position.