Open 577: Hope Plus One! (GAME OVER - SCUM WIN)

[acryon]

Done wall bashing. Lynch him if you think earning a ban is worthy of a scum read.

Again, that is not why he is scum. This is why he is likely scum:

Pastro looks pretty bad for sure in his first few posts. Stating the obvious to look town, comments about how town is supposed to act and scumhunt, sheeping Mathdino's vote; he's got it all here. His first few posts look like the title chapters to a book titled "Scum's Guide to Trying to Look like Town."

Coupled with my gut feeling that I have gone over ad nauseam, I think it is very likely.

And I am fine holding off on that for now, since it makes much more sense to target the scum we can actually interact with.

Speaking of which

UNVOTE:
So you can stop pretending I'm on some "Pastro is scum no matter what and nothing else matters" train.

[Aneninen]

^Lol, it looks like we have our first target. Voting blocs are fun, and in the past have given me great results in games. Have you ever been in one?

Can you provide a link for that?
As I said before, I thought it was a joke.

Please read this if you're even considering the idea of a voting bloc.

I've read lots of things on the Wiki but I've never read that page before. I daresay, I absolutely agree with it.

Scum tends to pay attention to pre/early game happenings for scheming and reputation building purposes.
Town doesn't have much to do pre-game and may miss out on details.

Unless they're miming their own townplay.

I'm actually policy lynching mathdino because he annoys the living shit out of me and others

vote: Mathdino

So far he hasn't annoyed me.

As for the Cane+Able / Mathdino topic: I don't know what to think. None of them appears to be scummier than the other one(s).

Pastro's 117–121 was contentless.

I liked Acryon's 123. I mostly agree with those things.
The same goes for Gravity's 126–128 part and for Copper's catchup in 137 too. These three players are giving me town wibes now.

Texcat: get used to pigeons ^_^ do you want another one?

His ban actually makes him look really really scummy, because the way he was posting elsewhere on the site and the character it showed seems, to me, to line up perfectly with his posts being mafia this game. This sucks, because that's not how I like to win games, but I think it's actually really likely he is scum.

I think that ban is a null. Someone was banned in my very first Newbie and that slot flipped town later.

________

I know it hasn't been a strong catchup.
But, despite of the sheer amount of posts, there were very few topics.
Also, I'm very tired and I must have missed things.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

For the record, I agree with Cane about the cheap town cred shots.
I'm replacing out tomorrow if this game continues to have such dominating players.

There's a lot of baggage this game. I would PL mathdino for being dominating. I would PL newbie for intentionally ignoring this game. Besides that, I have a scum read on texcat.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Aneinen's probably town from what we know so far.

[Mathdino]

Yeah, okay, Anen's town.

acryon, you're flipping back and forth on my reads list. Did you just unvote just to make one of C+A's points invalid? What was the purpose of that?

Constantine, you're one of the most (try-to-be) dominating players I've ever met. Jussayin.

[Cane + Able]

Besides that, I have a scum read on texcat.

Based on... ?

[texcat]

Probably based on the fact that I think he's a bully.

texcat - Not much here, but 135 is a little weird. It sounds like empty scum-hunting to me to be honest. Says he wants to hear more from Aneninen, but half the town has posted <=5 times, so it's odd that he chose to call out Aneninen. Lean-scum.

I talked about Pastro and Aneninen because those were the current cases being considered, and I was trying to say that I couldn't base a vote on someone who had not been heard from since the pre-game. I needed to hear more.


I came very close to being lynched in my first newbie game because, among other reasons, I called out someone who said they guaranteed there was a scum in the group of {A,B,C}. We never could agree on the math, but I still contend that in a 9 player game with 2 scum, the odds of a scum in that group is 82%. I was just trying to make the point that it was a meaningless guarantee. Everyone else thought I should be paying more attention to why A,B,C were in the group, rather than D,E,F. I think Dino and A+C are having a similar argument. Saying that A and B are not on the same team is fairly meaningless, though I won't pretend to do the math on this one. But I can see the reasoning behind why Dino said that BMWS and C+A were not both scum. I don't really agree with it, but I see the reasoning behind it.

I'm way too lazy to read old games to find the meta on people, but others seem to do it all the time. It's not considered inappropriate, is it? I don't see how using the fact that someone was banned as part of their meta would be inappropriate.

I haven't seen much of anything that I have found scummy yet. I am leaning town on C+A for reading the riot act to the bullies. It seems to me that scum would want them to continue ranting at each other.

[Mathdino]

Oh yeah forgot to unvote.
UNVOTE: Aneninonanunoninenanenynonymous

Hey texcat, what's your read on BMWS? I appreciate your thoughts above but at the end of the day the essence of the content is "I see what Dino is saying, C+A is probably town".
This is a fairly common read right now. So yeah, anything else?

[St Constantine the Hermit]

Besides that, I have a scum read on texcat.

Based on... ?

Gut

[texcat]

Oh yeah forgot to unvote.
UNVOTE: Aneninonanunoninenanenynonymous

Hey texcat, what's your read on BMWS? I appreciate your thoughts above but at the end of the day the essence of the content is "I see what Dino is saying, C+A is probably town".
This is a fairly common read right now. So yeah, anything else?

Null on BMWS. Sorry to be so boring.

I'm fighting my OMGUS reaction to Constantine. But no, nothing else. Sorry to be so boring.

I could switch to another hat, like yours, but I'll just leave my vote randomly parked on Copper for the moment.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

I'm going to be inactive on this game for awhile until something intresting happens. I'm a little bored, and not enough people have talked for me to get into the game.
Just a fair warning in case it looks like I'm ignoring this game.

[Cane + Able]

Besides that, I have a scum read on texcat.

Based on... ?

Gut

This does not inspire a town read. In regards to explaining a vote on texcat at this point in time, gut = "I got nothing".

-House

[Cane + Able]

I'm going to be inactive on this game for awhile until something intresting happens. I'm a little bored, and not enough people have talked for me to get into the game.
Just a fair warning in case it looks like I'm ignoring this game.

Stated intent to lurk does not make lurking any less scummy.

[Cane + Able]

Besides that, I have a scum read on texcat.

Based on... ?

Gut

This does not inspire a town read. In regards to explaining a scum read on texcat at this point in time, gut = "I got nothing".

-House

Fixed.

[notreallygood]

Thanks for answering my questions, Math.

Let me share my thoughts.
Some of you have got scumvibes from Pastro because of his dismissive attitude, but I'd like to make it clear that it isn't advisable to judge a player's alignment based on their playstyle. Sure, his posts may look scummy at the first sight, but check out his profile and you'll see that he may be a new player who isn't very familiar with how this game works. Also, post 118 suggests that he may tend to take jokes too seriously. Taking all these things into consideration, I've got a null read on him, for now.

The same thing can be said for Constantine, but Math has already explained why he isn't likely to be scum. Besides, as he has mentioned, he's been victorious in a few games using the townbloc strategy, which is probably why he'd suggest that. I don't feel any scumvibes from him.

For Gravity, his posts feel unnatural. I've played with him before, and in that game he didn't place his vote on someone and call them "the scummiest to me" this early in the game. He would just say "a little bit suspicious". Also, he wouldn't keep asking about others' opinions on someone he voted. So this really comes as unusual to me.

I can't really say much about House and Math apart from arguing with each other. I appreciate their motivations to question each other's logic, though, and House has also answered Acryon's questions about Math's logic, while Math has also reminded us that he wasn't really suspecting Constantine, but rather wanted to point out his "bad play"(as he calls it). Overall, both of them come as town to me, although the two of them may have conflicts from time to time.

Need some time to go through others' posts. Remind me if I've missed anything.

VOTE: Gravity

[theelkspeaks]

Rudolph the Reindeer replaces Pastro.

[notreallygood]

Acryon had an acceptable start, giving thoughts on the things going on. However, he occasionally went off-topic, talking about theories and making personal one-liners. And I'm afraid that I can't agree with his reads on House. The fact that House keeps telling everyone how they need to play the game shows that he's a person who wants to take the initative and cares about the game. But Acryon has done his best to answer questions and come up with detailed reads, such answering Math's questions and explaining why he doesn't regard non-game content as scummy, which I appreciate. He's leaning town.

For Aneninen, I'd like him to elaborate his comments. For example, why were Pastro's posts contentless? Which part did you agree with post 123?

I'm still trying to figure out what BMWS said. He said that he'd unvoted because he "didn't really think that what he pointed out was a good reason to vote Constantine", but didn't he unvote because he was out of RVS? I don't get what he was trying to tell us.

By the way, when I said "it isn't advisable to judge a player's alignment based on their playstyle", I was referring to their playstyle they show in this game. So we still need to consider their meta if there's any.

[acryon]

acryon, you're flipping back and forth on my reads list. Did you just unvote just to make one of C+A's points invalid? What was the purpose of that?

No, not at all. I actually thought I had already unvoted, because there is clearly never going to be the traction for a Pastro lynch, as I recognized the controversial nature of my read in the first place. The level at which the vote being left there is bad is compounded by the fact that we can't question someone who isn't here.

[blindmewithscience]

I'm still trying to figure out what BMWS said. He said that he'd unvoted because he "didn't really think that what he pointed out was a good reason to vote Constantine", but didn't he unvote because he was out of RVS? I don't get what he was trying to tell us.

I made a random vote for Constantine. I was then told that we were out of RVS, so I unvoted. In that same post, I made stated that Constantine gave 2 separate reasons for joining the game (and this turned out to be incorrect...) I was asked by MD why I unvoted even though I gave reasoning that made Constantine suspicious. I invited because my original vote was RVS

and

didn't want to vote him for the reason that I gave because to me, what I said wasn't a good enough reason to keep voting him. Hopefully this makes sense.

BMWS: not a fan, I don't see the town-tell from missing that c+a is a hydra, the fact he is not paying attention to me is slightly more mafia than town indicative if anything, because of the two mafia is the more likely to skim posts, being self conscious about where you are voting is also slightly more scum than mafia indicative.

^from copper. Can you explain how exactly my voting was self conscious? And so there's differing opinions on whether missing tg fact that C+A was a hydra was towny or scummy. For me, it's just that I don't really know people until I begin interacting with them.

Regarding my meta, the only forum ones I've been on are here and at the below link. I replace in on page 7.
http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Foru ... 4&t=597495

[copper223]

@BMWS
Compare it to Texcat, he came into the game, voted one random guy, didn't really bother justifying it and parked it there until he has s better scumread, that reads more town to me because you aren't even thinking about being seen as scum, ofc you can always meta it so it's by no means a universal tell. Now you came in and voted, someone told you RVS is over and you quickly unvoted, this to me shows the opposite, you don't want to have to justify that vote or draw attention to yourself, which indicates your primary focus is not scum hunting (town) but rather surviving (mafia). This read is reinforced by your latest post where you explain your play to people questionong you but once again give mo indication about who you think is scum nor do you bother to vote and by now you should have plenty of material for a "first impression" of who you want to investigate as a potential mafia.

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

Hello everyone!

[Gravity]

Just reading back now, will let Pastro's replacement post a bit first. The 'he's a newbie' argument doesn't flow with me though, his posts looked really opportunistic and just like he was trying to find the easiest place to park his vote, and look like he was contributing.

UNVOTE: Pastro

Some of you have got scumvibes from Pastro because of his dismissive attitude, but I'd like to make it clear that it isn't advisable to judge a player's alignment based on their playstyle. Sure, his posts may look scummy at the first sight, but check out his profile and you'll see that he may be a new player who isn't very familiar with how this game works. Also, post 118 suggests that he may tend to take jokes too seriously. Taking all these things into consideration, I've got a null read on him, for now.

It wasn't just his attitude, it was the way he reacted to the thread. He didn't seem comfortable at all, he didn't directly confront anyone, he made points on random votes and jokey posts that didn't determine alignment in anyway, and copied someone's vote EXACTLY. It was literally the same reasoning Math had used. I realize he's new, but I'm not going to ignore clearly scummy play when I see it, but I will let his replacement speak.

The same thing can be said for Constantine, but Math has already explained why he isn't likely to be scum. Besides, as he has mentioned, he's been victorious in a few games using the townbloc strategy, which is probably why he'd suggest that. I don't feel any scumvibes from him.

For Gravity, his posts feel unnatural. I've played with him before, and in that game he didn't place his vote on someone and call them "the scummiest to me" this early in the game. He would just say "a little bit suspicious". Also, he wouldn't keep asking about others' opinions on someone he voted. So this really comes as unusual to me.

I can't really say much about House and Math apart from arguing with each other. I appreciate their motivations to question each other's logic, though, and House has also answered Acryon's questions about Math's logic, while Math has also reminded us that he wasn't really suspecting Constantine, but rather wanted to point out his "bad play"(as he calls it). Overall, both of them come as town to me, although the two of them may have conflicts from time to time.

Need some time to go through others' posts. Remind me if I've missed anything.

VOTE: Gravity

None of this is telling me anything new, he's on the fence about a lot of what he is saying aside from me. In what way were my posts unnatural? Also, using wording to suspect me looks really bad IMO. It doesn't really matter how I phrase it, I found him to be the scummiest so far. Would I have looked more Town if I had said he just looked suspicious? I don't understand that at all. Saying he's the scummiest so far is taking a pretty big stance this early in to the game, showing I was confident in my read and willing to push it. How does that look scummy? I thought he looked the most suspicious so I pushed him, something I did the last game I did on here as Town. Also, I don't see how asking people's opinions on a player in the game is unusual? I'm merely trying to create discussion in the Thread, and get other people's thoughts.

NRG's 191 is a little bit better, but I don't like how his entire case on me seems to be just based on how I played last time and wording, and nothing really to do with this game aside from asking people questions.

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

St. Constantine the Hermit looks like a very new player to Mafiascum. He seems to have some incorrect ideas about our site's meta, though it does seems that he's played offsite, probably EpicMafia from the impression I get from his posts so far. Irregardless, I don't like the slot at the moment, more particularly the fact he makes excuses to be on V/LA in this post. I'm not willing to make a final alignment call as of yet so I am going to remain cautious for now.

I'm confident that MathDino is naughty. He's got an ISO which is 90% fluff; most of his posts are arguing mathematics with Cain & Able, arguments regarding St Constantine's bad playstyle and other assorted, equally useless, nonsense.

vote: MathDino

Aneninien and Acryon, would you be so willing to provide me with examples of your town and scum games? I find you two difficult to read so would like examples of your previous games. Pretty please?

[Gravity]

@BMWS
Compare it to Texcat, he came into the game, voted one random guy, didn't really bother justifying it and parked it there until he has s better scumread, that reads more town to me because you aren't even thinking about being seen as scum, ofc you can always meta it so it's by no means a universal tell. Now you came in and voted, someone told you RVS is over and you quickly unvoted, this to me shows the opposite, you don't want to have to justify that vote or draw attention to yourself, which indicates your primary focus is not scum hunting (town) but rather surviving (mafia). This read is reinforced by your latest post where you explain your play to people questionong you but once again give mo indication about who you think is scum nor do you bother to vote and by now you should have plenty of material for a "first impression" of who you want to investigate as a potential mafia.

Agree on Texcat, I'm leaning town as well. I was looking over her posts, and she doesn't seem to be trying to force anything out to seem useful, and like she's 'trying' to look Town. Her progress so far seems like a gradual Town build whilst she gains reads.

[Rudolph the Reindeer]

notereallygood's meta argument is very weak, to be generous. Trying to frame someone as naughty based on how someone would word their opening vote comes across as very anti-town to me. I find it unlikely the distinction between someone's towngame and scumgame is asking someone from clarification on a vote, or wording a scumread as 'a little suspect' contrasting to 'the scummiest thing so far'. You're reaching.