Mini 1625: Redemption (Game Over)

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: Riddleton

[Naomi-Tan]

i like you two

You always liked me

[Naomi-Tan]

we had 1 game before

[Naomi-Tan]

we had 1 game before

Double checked, nope we havn't played before Im just crazy..

[Naomi-Tan]

Well, Enough Casual Talk, well Casual ish... So..

Hi, I'm Naomi, and I'm town :3 I'm not very good at Mafia Scum and I joined with Munkir, its his first game, So be kind and help him out :3. I'm pretty terrible though and get defensive very easily so, Wanted to have a little breif introduction about myself :3 I enjoy playing as town alot more than playing as mafia as I like the investigation aspect even If im not very good :3

[Naomi-Tan]

obviously Scum, lurked all game, Gadsh

[Naomi-Tan]

Did we joke vote someone L-3 XD
well, while the RVS is going on, lets talk setup meta
So we have 13 players, So Im gonna go with the meta of 3 Scum, 10 Town as the most likely setup for the game, with about 3 Vin Towns too.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: naomi-tan

Already setting up the terrible player defence for all the mislynches she's going to be on.

Im gonna jump on this as its going somewhere, You say that i'm setting up a defence ahead of time for miss lynches, but as we are stafeing the boarder of RVS right now, It would be way too soon to get a jist of anything at all regarding said lynchs, so, assuming your arugment is not based on that, I can only assume your jumping on it beacuse in the situation I was scum, it would be a good call back later on, however, I am town, and if you think about it from a town point of veiw it gives everyone else a bit of information about the player to work with, which is always nice, as coming in without knowing anyone is to scums advantage IMO as they can use our lack of a player meta against us. So moving onwards from that the true reason I said that was to give people an idea of what to expect from me,

(Normally I wouldn't of picked so much on this post and been so defencive, but screw RVS as it is very unhelpful for town.)

power wagons are common
they pressure one player to perform
i think they work better than a normal rvs

your numbers look right
what is vin town?

pedit come on ggg its too early for pedits

Vanilla Town, I don't expect more than 3/10 town are vin, though, it may be higher... not very good with role meta without knowing more claims (Don't tell anyone your role day 1 munkir unless your about to get lynched, its powerful information mafia may use against you.

[Naomi-Tan]

3/10 is how many power roles id guess

Hmm... this seems like the sorta thing we should pick up later on, lets resume this conversation line day 3, when we (hopefully) have more information to go on rather than speculation (for that is the worst kinda of Specs)

[Naomi-Tan]

@Droog✿; What do you like better, Town or Scum?

[Naomi-Tan]

Scum?

scum.
easier. less pressure.
managing 2-3 allies toward a coherent goal is easier
than shepharding a large towwn

my scumhunting has also atrophied since whenever i last played regularly

Thanks, this was a useful bit of information

[Naomi-Tan]

nah
if i was scum idve fudged my answer
what matters is getting to know a person
how they talk, how they lie, how they truth

while im expounding pompous theory
interpreting somone's motives
and personality

is more important than just about anything else

If I was scum, I would be worried about now xD

[Naomi-Tan]

We don't know all of the roles in the game, do we? I don't remember seeing a list anywhere.

WhompingWillow: IGMEOY for supposedly joining the "joke" bandwagon way after it was funny.

There was a bandwaggon for GGG?

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: droog

I think you super over-reacted with what you thought was a l-1. If you were so worried, why didn't you unvote?

because i wasnt worried anyone would vote
once id marked it as l-1
who does that

---

Quote tag fixed
~Mod

Nice flip out, UNVOTE: Anyway, there are 13 players, Im seriously disliking the willow though, due to there nature of stacking votes without giving a reason, and the fact that when I put a really weak argument on GGG to kick off some discussion they voted on that.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah orientally I wanted to join a newbie with him, but unfortunately you can't que for game in that only for next, which is why I took him to the next level :3 He'll be fine ~~~~~~~

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: kuror0

Guy is confirmed, but hasn't posted yet, and I'll forget he exists otherwise.

Also,

@Droog: What made you decide there were only 9 players, let alone freak out about Riddleton being L-1 (he never was), yet not unvoting? Let's not pretend an RVS wagon adds pressure to anyone, so it wasn't like him being L-1 or L-2 (assuming there were 9 players instead of 13) would've made any difference. Wondering what your mindset was here.


My thoughts:

I hate lurkers. They ruin games, and I think it's a horrible playstyle for anyone that does it on purpose. Real life things happen, but if I can log into my phone and post while still working 60+ hours a week, so can everyone else. I also think lurking is alignment-indicative, since 99% of every game seems to have at least one scum that lurks and survives til the end game due to that. Just saying. Lurkers suck.

I theorised that it was because of the talk about how many town I believed there was where I speculated 10 town, which may of confused the matter.

[Naomi-Tan]

Thinking willow is Indi, silenced on day one situplation (or Jester) so not feeling that train yet.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well if it is non-normal and given the fact they just talked... VOTE: Whomping Willow
Right now they are L-1

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't like the whomp wagon, essentially people are voting for him because he is an ass.

Crazy I notice you are voting for him because you want him lynched rather than you believe him to be scum. Do you and really anyone on the wagon feel he is actually scummy?

Yes, Voting for someone who is unhelpful is okay, for unhelpfulness is Anti-town, so... Therfore, him being an Ass is anti-town.

[Naomi-Tan]

UNVOTE: Right now a lynch would tell us nothing about other players really, I wanna play this argument out right now and see how it reflects on people, as it may be used as a town tool.

[Naomi-Tan]

Whomping Willow@

Page 3- Not much notable here, crazypianist I lean town on-ish, pressuring seems genuine.

Can you expand on your thoughts on Crazy Paint?

Revisiting 82 by Originalchris I hate it even more than I did when I first read it, ironically it was completely unoriginal, the droog L-1 thing had already been covered, the lurker speech was pointless, just looks like him trying to look like he's doing work, plus he had commentary on the game yet accompanied it with no meaningful vote."An RVS wagon adds no pressure but I'm going to RVS instead of voting the pony I'm questioning", doesn't ring sincere to me, and the statement about RVS wagons was bad enough on it's own.

When I red that I thought it had nothing to do was RVS, though I was confused about the confirmed line of thought. Seems weird all this roleclaiming day 1, but the weirdest part is, why would Chris say kuror0 is confirmed, there has already been a neighbour claim, so it would seem weird to get a 4 person neigh, but 1 is saying confirmed, while the other is saying unconfirmed which looks REALLY strange.

I would Aruge that flames in post 92 was asking good questions, the type of questions that fire discussion/gain information, then again it could also been seen as fishing for weakness in players, trying to find a flaw to attack, which I don't really like the idea of.

Finally, at the end of post; post 136 you went and voted for chris, but you only mentioned him once as a mid sorta comment, rather than at the end like a bold statement, could you perhaps expand on that point as I personally feel that he isn't really doing anything and looking like he is contributing without saying much, but your RVS statement doesn't speak to me much. so I'd like more.

Tag fixed
~Mod

[Naomi-Tan]

UNVOTE: Whomping Willow

Why did you unvote?

[Naomi-Tan]

When I red that I thought it had nothing to do was RVS, though I was confused about the confirmed line of thought. Seems weird all this roleclaiming day 1, but the weirdest part is, why would Chris say kuror0 is confirmed, there has already been a neighbour claim, so it would seem weird to get a 4 person neigh, but 1 is saying confirmed, while the other is saying unconfirmed which looks REALLY strange.

Wait... what??????

This is the most confusing post I've ever read. What are you talking about????? When did I say kuror0 is confirmed, or anything about roleclaiming or neighbors or something?????

wtf????

VOTE: kuror0

Guy is confirmed, but hasn't posted yet, and I'll forget he exists otherwise.

Also,

@Droog: What made you decide there were only 9 players, let alone freak out about Riddleton being L-1 (he never was), yet not unvoting? Let's not pretend an RVS wagon adds pressure to anyone, so it wasn't like him being L-1 or L-2 (assuming there were 9 players instead of 13) would've made any difference. Wondering what your mindset was here.


My thoughts:

I hate lurkers. They ruin games, and I think it's a horrible playstyle for anyone that does it on purpose. Real life things happen, but if I can log into my phone and post while still working 60+ hours a week, so can everyone else. I also think lurking is alignment-indicative, since 99% of every game seems to have at least one scum that lurks and survives til the end game due to that. Just saying. Lurkers suck.

In the bolded bit.

Also on the subject of munkir, though it does read off as townish, I'd say argue that its kinda WIFOM partially if he has communication with scum team. Though as I said, I do see him as town.

@Naomi: What are you talking about in that post of yours? Where did you ever see me saying anything about confirming anypony, and where do you see anypony role claiming? Are you confusing games here, or what is going on there?

kinda said this already

im neighbors with riddleton

i specifically voted him to suss a reaction out of him
see if he'd mention we were neighbors to the public or not
shot that plan to hell

Please pay attention.

Is that really all you found pertinent to comment on?

Are you serious right now? Are you trying to tell me what I can and cannot comment on? Also, does Naomi = Whomping Willow?????

Why are you and Naomi answering questions for each other? Naomi answered questions directed toward Droog and you. You answer questions or deflect questions asked about/to Naomi. SCUMMMMYYY.

I tend to like to answer questions to anyone, gives good reads later on, more information = More power

Finally, at the end of post; post 136 you went and voted for chris, but you only mentioned him once as a mid sorta comment, rather than at the end like a bold statement, could you perhaps expand on that point as I personally feel that he isn't really doing anything and looking like he is contributing without saying much, but your RVS statement doesn't speak to me much. so I'd like more.

however
something about this seems more like
scum explaining their town thought processes
than town having town thought processes

When someone does a big content post covering alot of people, Its normal for someone to leave at the end on a strong statement normally a attack and explantion on voting as your reason for voting someone after examining things should pretain to the main ammount of content of anypost and is normally sitted at the end beacuse... well I dunno just normal I guess, I don't know where im going with this right now, but im gonna roll with it and passive type and see where it goes. anyway, so with bigger posts looking at people you normally start with town reads, as they are not a main focus, he did so, and then move onto those people who are kinda mid tier, unsure, one way or another people, then close on them people yours suspicious about, the more evidence you got the more room that part takes up, so... I guess this could be put up to OCD, cause after writing this all out, I can see no reason why the layout would be partically scummy other than the fact you normally vote for people you have the largest feels from, but I guess there is no rule saying your largest feels can't be mid post. wow.. this is gone on way too long
TL:DR - I thought about it, just OCD giving fake tells.

freakout entirely disproportionate
to the manout of pressure you received

What pressure? I'm looking for scum here, although with Naomi/Whomp/You it seems maybe I hit a jackpot. Naomi did say she thought there were 3 scum. I'm just connecting the dots

So as it stands, my scum list is as follows: Whomp, Naomi, Droog

Looks about right.

I also gave my reasoning behind why I thought there was 3 scum (13 players, 2 would be too little, maybe 4 in a powerful town game, but 3 is balanced.)

Scummiest player by far.

Anti-town in beginning til coached by Droog

, became "super serious" with a bunch of fluff commenting on how people force the word "anyways" over saying the word "anyways" casually (SCUM TELL OF THE YEAR!), somehow disliked my first post of the game as being not-relevant (trying way too hard here to look like a serious scum hunter), and overall deflecting for Naomi now, who I'm still wondering if she made a scum slip or what exactly happened with that post of hers. It makes zero sense whatsoever in regards to this thread, although it was directed toward Whomp, who tried to deflect away from it after I pointed it out.

DO scum have day chat? This would explain quite a bit.

>if scum have daychat, willow is scummy
>if scum dont have daychat, willow is scummy

If scum have daychat, Naomi could be scummy
if scum don't have daychat, willow is still scummy
when willow is scummy, droog coaches and/or defends him

Why am I scummy if scum have daychat?


And time for my thoughts on O-Chris, So after starting slow he has gone on a full on defensive offence, attacking anyone who said anything about him, now looking at this as a scum action, the people he has attacked (me, Droog, Willow) are the 3 people who have drummed up the most discussion and have been talking about points the most, trying to work up information out of day one and get RVS over ASAP, now if your scum, attacking the people who are most towny (Imo) would be a bad idea, as they would have an easier time flipping the tables and attacking back. however, from a town point of view his actions make more sense, as he could be thinking that we are herding people to our tune. (In a situation where we are scum) however, personally speaking I view neither Droog nor Willow nor O-Chris as scum, at this point, So I'm not gonna vote for either.

I would love to see more posts from Riddleton and the other players who are not speaking much; Munkir, GGG, AWA and kuror0. Right now my biggest suspicion is on GGG, looking back on his posts, (bare in mind that I know im town) He put pressure on me on my introduction post, then moved off that after my explanation. After that he moves to defend willow back when willow was not contributing and pretty much trolling. Right now im attucally reading GGG defence of Willow as kinda scum buddie ish, as there was no reason to defend them when they wasn't contributing and the way he did it just didn't feel right.. other than those two things (attack on confirmed town me, (at least from my POV)) and then defending someone who wasn't contributing, they have given no input to discussion other than agreeing with points other people have made.
VOTE: GGG As they have no votes on them, I'm gonna put some heat there way, there lack of contribution and defence of someone, at the time, who had given nothing but votes with no contact, is out outrageous.

Pedit:

at this stage in the game, any reads are good, so though declaring it as an ealry read is good, it doesn't mean that your read will stay the same, take this post. at the start I thought Droog me and Willow was town, but by the end after looking at GGG I wasn't so sure on the latter, everything can change right now and without any REAL information to go on (confirmed infomation) we only really have suspicion gut and research to go off of.

Pedit 2:

Chris beat my Pedit one.

Pedit 3:

no not really, anyone can look up the information, and if your making a statement its your job to back it up, there is no court system that is fair that will not require evidence to convict for a reason...

[Naomi-Tan]

I've read your post, im standing with my post.

[Naomi-Tan]

I've Edited the day countdown into my Signature. so we don't have to search for it.

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm not gonna comment on the reaction test stuff, I don't understand the test properly, so I'm just gonna let this lie and not respond to it, as I don't get it, and commenting on it as if I got it, would be miss leading as my lack of getting it is not useful information for town to get.

[Naomi-Tan]

Ok this is most likely a stupid question but why can i see titles under peoples names they surely can't be correct can they?

If so then I think I'm seeing something I'm not suppose to see

I'm going to leave this here and see what other people think since nobody commented on it at the time. Munkir's subtitle is Townsperson. He seems inexperienced enough for this post to be a legitimate question. If he weren't town, he wouldn't have asked the question, seeing the contradiction with his own role.

That being said the rest of his posts have virtually no content and I would have had him on my leaning scum list. Not sure how to feel.

I don't know what to say honestly and I don't want to die so i feel as though if i put my opinion out there i will be targeted by nefarious forces but at the same time I'm being targeted because I'm not putting out my opinion its like Naomi said before game lots of WIFOM here

It is equally important to get your read on things as every bodies else's, weather it is right or wrong doesn't matter, because options are subjective in this matter and as long as its on topic it will only be more useful to town then scum (assuming your town)

[Naomi-Tan]

@GGG His aggression feels town but it's also disproportionate and he's making absolutely no sense so I'm trying to understand his thought process

Go back and read him in an ISO there is a reason I got my vote on him right now...

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm not gonna comment on the reaction test stuff, I don't understand the test properly, so I'm just gonna let this lie and not respond to it, as I don't get it, and commenting on it as if I got it, would be miss leading as my lack of getting it is not useful information for town to get.

How do you not understand what happened on a Riddles reaction test

He posted a fake dayvig
Isott reacted
Riddle confessed.

What's there to not understand about the test. Two questions resolve from it. Did riddle and istot set this interaction up? Was Isotts reaction genuine?

Also why make this post stating that you have nothing to say? You could just not post about it. This is followed by a post of you adding the countdown clock to your sig. You look like you are trying to appear more active than you are.

I had a feeling the argument would continue on and wanted my comment of, not touching this, on record. that was pretty much the entire thing.

[Naomi-Tan]

And finally we have Naomi-Tan:
I think she's scum.

She has said way too many times that she's town: Post 12, Post 22, Post 31 hints at it, Post 245

It seems scummy for somepony to emphasize so much that she's town.

Not to mention throughout her posts she keeps on talking about gaining "information" but provides barely any information or analysis herself before Post 165, and even that was just a misunderstanding over what "confirmed" means and what seems like a misreading of Post 136.

Post 245 is some talk about post layout, setup speculation, and Munkir town opinion. She then says GGG and WW are scum buddy-esque BUT also says she doesn't view WW as scum. Whaaaaaat???? How can they be scum buddies but WW isn't scum? The vote on GGG seems like a huge stretch at that point. GGG's talk of WW amounted to saying WW was just paraspriting and to leave him be instead of voting for him. (That being said, GGG's vote-switch from Naomi to me seemed like moving from non-RVS back into RVS). Naomi-Tan building a case on just that is pretty weak.

She then continues to post a bunch of fluff posts.

VOTE: Naomi-Tan

Well, I think WW is town, and GGG actions feel scummy, partically when ISO'd (given that before I said anything on him, he had contributed 0) and beacuse GGG defended WW it makes me think that mabye WW is scum (a very good scum player). There was no real reason on why GGG would defend WW and since my vote landed on them, they have been taking alot more actions.

[Naomi-Tan]

5 is some talk about post layout, setup speculation, and Munkir town opinion. She then says GGG and WW are scum buddy-esque BUT also says she doesn't view WW as scum. Whaaaaaat???? How can they be scum buddies but WW isn't scum? The vote on GGG seems like a huge stretch at that point. GGG's talk of WW amounted to saying WW was just paraspriting and to leave him be instead of voting for him. (That being said, GGG's vote-switch from Naomi to me seemed like moving from non-RVS back into RVS). Naomi-Tan building a case on just that is pretty weak.

there isn't always a clean cut black and white for scummyness, while WW looked town, GGG actions made WW more of a gray area... if that makes sense to you..

Pedit: well, it can leave an impression on others that they are town, but I was just doing it, because atm I only know im town, what can I say.

[Naomi-Tan]

So do you not understand it or just don't want to talk about it.

Eeh.. well.. urgh... I dunno... I just felt it wasn't a big deal... I didn't get it really, and didn't really see the confess being a thing... so.. whatever... it is WIFOM weather or not it was a bluff, and its not great idea to speculate things like that... I let it pass at the time, and I would let it pass now, though it was kinda out of the blue and a shock reaction thing, given the 1-2-1 style of the test, I guess you could say it was a cool idea, but you can't get much of a read off it...

Riddleton x Isott
Scum x Scum = creates Separation
Town x Scum = Call Bluff/Reacting as if town regardless
Scum x Town = Looks like trying to find scum, without giving any formation to town
Town x Town = Telling the truth.

No matter the situation, Its cool so I was like, well Isott is slightly town I guess, but scum could call bluff, or did it to create separation so.... whatever really.

Pedit: I voted and attacked on you, and like the last time someone did the same, your activity perked up.
Pedit 2: I guess? I dunno, I just said it a few times? I'm not really overthinking what I right like that to avoid saying stuff like that.

[Naomi-Tan]

Pedit: I voted and attacked on you, and like the last time someone did the same, your activity perked up.

I think you are misrepresenting me here. My activity didn't change when whomp voted for me and my activity level Saturday is basically the same as it is today. So you are really reaching to say my activity level has changed as a result of your or any vote outside of one post to respond to it.

If you exclude your joke vote and asking what a Pedit is, your activity today is equal to your activity since the game started. I just counted, that of course ignoring the content of the rest of it.

@crazypianist1116 yeah well... I am trying to contribute... see the post where I voted for GGG, I'm just not as good at scum hunting as others.

[Naomi-Tan]

I think you are misrepresenting me here.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
I arranged your activity into a line graph, and added a pie chart for pre- and Post- Vote.

[Naomi-Tan]

I think you are misrepresenting me here.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
I arranged your activity into a line graph, and added a pie chart for pre- and Post- Vote.

So you basically proved that he was more active before the vote.

Ah but pre-vote had 4 time peroids, while post vote had 2, so if you were to take the posts and divide it by time slots;
Pre-Vote: 3.25 / 12 hours average
Post-Vote: 5 / 12 hours average
Also if you go back at look at the Pre-vote content (Sun AM and earlier) the post stuff, is more content rich. so, I'm still saying since I applied the vote he has increased in activity.

[Naomi-Tan]

Maybe my lack of experience is leading to our differing opinions, OC.

I don't really see a point to take a strategy of "Everybody's lying, try and find who's telling the truth". I'm definitely more partial to "Everybody's telling the truth, find who's lying". Most town-aligned players know nothing, so town should have the goal of getting as many opinions and making as much of an informed decision as possible

especially

on day 1. If we get fewer reads today, then even when someone eventually gets lynched, and the nightkills show up, we won't have as much to go on in D2 and beyond.

That being said, being guarded isn't a terrible way to play. It's just when you're guarded to the extreme and refrain from making any real progress because you think everyone's scum does it start being detrimental to town, I think.

The whole going back and forth on GGG's posting frequency over the course of only two days is pretty terrible. You can't necessarily conclude that the vote caused the change of activity. Correlation doesn't imply causation.

True but there is a correlation right now, but It was more the content Pre- to -Post that I found differed.

[Naomi-Tan]

yeah starting at 5/10 (netiher town nor scummy) makes sense to me... why do you think it won't be normal

[Naomi-Tan]

yeah starting at 5/10 (netiher town nor scummy) makes sense to me... why do you think it won't be normal

Because when people read that they think that everyone is scummy according to Munkir until they read the post about everyone starting at 5/10. Not town or scummy, just dumb.

What would you start at?

Zero. It doesn't matter anyway, I thought it was just dumb. Keeping on this topic is pointless.

then how would you show townish reads

[Naomi-Tan]

Naiomi / Munkir

Do you guys talk about the game in real life? Or about mafia in general? I am wondering if I should think of you as neighbors rather than as regular players

Pre-game I told him about some common mafia terms such as WIFOM and gave examples so he wouldn't be totally clueless going in, but we do not talk about the game at all outside of it.

[Naomi-Tan]

You should read my walls, its pretty much how I do the majority of my content when anything big goes down that I have a feel on, or when im summerising my feelings on all players... its a pretty big thing for me... anyway, most imporant parts normally weigh themselves to the bottom. between large posts I just put in little ones :3 commenting on the current situation :3 scum hunting is always on a wall :3

[Naomi-Tan]

@kuror0

Yeah I agree with you and while I don't know how she would react if she was scum I imagine that I would react similar to how she has the last few day very particular about what she says and how she says it. That's part of the reason why I plan to watch her closely also sorry I'm not helping with my read its most likely due to lack of content I am not attempting to post more due to it being a weekday

Oh no, player meta D:

I guess from now on I'm adding tl; dr's to the end of all my long posts.

Munkir, I hope you didn't think I was trying to baby you or anything. It's just that your early posts made it seem like you weren't understanding what was going on. I appreciate the more recent stuff.

Flames you haven't said anything about Flubbernugget, what do you think of him?

I think it was beacuse someone told him not stop the fluffy posts, but I find that insensitive to peoples paces, Im a very fluffy player as well but as far as Im concerned, any read, fluffy or not, is still useful

I'm not going to simplify my posts into a soundbite just because some people can't be bothered to take the time to read a post that I took the time to compile. I refuse to put on kid gloves because people want others to do their thinking for them. The whole "I don't want to read big posts" statement is also suspicious because it sets them up later for a "well I didn't catch [whatever] because it was part of a big post and I didn't read it", which could lead to a mislynch. Grow up people, this is an analytical game, do some analysis or get out.

I second this, I can't remember who but someone said I was null for them and would remain so, and he had no intent on reading my big back haul logs

@Naomi would you mind saying some or most of your reads at this point? You said somewhere that on the big walls is where you do your scumhunting but unless I'm making a mistake you got 1 wall so far and like most of your posts it is void of content, in this case because you spent most of the time theorizing about the game and making speculations about game set up.

Well most of my posts are reacting to whats going on but I can give you an overview in a bit. but unfortunately im not that great and you kinda just have to work with what I can give, my wiki page holds all my old town and scum games, if you wish to review my meta though. I'm working on something though... so give me a mo.

[Naomi-Tan]

So, Since my last post I been brewing, I went out to ISO people to try and find out if anyone had any suspicious activity, and I think I found a one (though by attacking them I may doom my self as i'm certain they are a better player and will do a good job convincing people to lynch me and given his disposition to attempt to attack me already once this may be a dumb idea) Now I was looking for a few Criteria.

> Lots of Vote Switching - This is scummy as train hoping, and flip-flop voting are generally a scum tatic to try and get more pressure on townies and hope the other lynch them.
> Lurking - This prevents town getting a good read on them, and if combined with dense attacking posts, or posts talking about stuff that is pretty much dead and burried can lead people to thinking they are actively contributing
> Content indicative of scum (High Offence, and Self Defence, not much defence of others) - Scum don't tend to defend as much as town, and instead stay on the offence as much as possible to spread malice and try to push for lynches, the more suttle put 1 or 2 good points and a vote on it and let town carry on the discussions.

Now Observe Chart 2; https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =489973392 Which from this point will be locked like chart 1.
First I decided to examine how many times people had voted, going down in alphabetical order (as the ISO system likes to do) and when I reached crazypianist1116 I had to stop. at the time I was using Find to look for any VOTE: and so I after finding he had voted 4 times. Next thing to work out was how often did he vote, See chart 1 (Votes Over days) I put the number of times he had voted accross an axis with the number of days the game had been running and saw a VERY sharp slope, all most 1 for 1 (days to votes) this would be an indicator of 1 of 3 things;1) Uncertain town. A town who is not really sure who is scummy and who is not, kinda bumbling about and wondering around, posts by these kinds of players sound all most unsure of themselves when they vote. 2) A long RVS - They happen, can last all most 7 days in extreme cases, however that is not applicable here. 3) Scum - Scum like suttlely pushing with votes here and there, unlike the unsure town, they are all most certain to know what they are doing. and it shows, there actions tend to be high aggression looking for a weaker target, and they tend to vote for people who are easy lynches.

So with point 1, Lots of vote Switching, Full filled I looked at point 2, Lurking (See the unlabled pie chart) I went and put all our names and the number of times we posted down and told google, put this into a pie chart, using this we can see that He makes up 4.4% of the total posts, given the post average of 7.5356% you could say that he has just over a half of average posts per a player. that was awkwardly phrased... anyway, yeah Lurking Check.

Then I took a look at the content See pie chart 4.

Below all the charts you can see my Post x Post ISO of the entirity of what he said, with little comments on anything major, but the majority of his posts have been either attacking others or Null reads, with only a single post where he talks about someone else being townish, now as a town player, you need to be looking for townish as much as Scumish, and with only 1 defence, of munkir who is pretty clueless (or was so) but even that was followed with a counter point to it (effectively balancing it to null (though i count that as 1 attack 1 defence) this was 1 of the 3 yellow posts. which are the ones I wanna talk about. As you can see, he isn't really looking for town reads or at least hasn't commented on any, which doesn't seem like a town mind set. but even with that I wasn't certain, until I reviewed the people he had voted for.

I Know i'm confirmed town, I have a slight feeling Whomping is town, and a fair feeling that Droog is town, so by combining my feelings on his vote count, and looking at the durations of the votes the stronger the player, the less the duration of the vote, which looks less like putting votes on who they think is scummy and more like pressuing to force lynches.

so, going back a step, to his post contents, everything don't look too bad, alot of posts are Nulls, either correcting what he said, or stating stuff that isn't one way or another. the vast majority though are pointing of things that are 'scummy' but im repeating myself moving onto the yellow posts. post 170 the first one I've already spoken about in the paragraph two above this.

[quote="In post 373 The second one I wanted to talk about was the post where he voted for me in it at first he Talks about the Willow O Chris thing, where he tried to pair Willow and Droog, At that point in the arguement though it had cooled off and it was obvious where most people stood it would been easy to join in right then taking a side to show that you was with the town majority, Then commented on the reaction test BS basicly saying its null like me. then proceeds to attack me, claiming I say i'm town too much. which is kinda a stupid argument

but in the next 2 posts he tries to defend his argument pretty much backing down on the second, less than 2 posts after he made his point, this doesn't seem like he either didn't believe or care about his views..

VOTE: crazypianist1116
For full filling all 3 suspicious thingys that I said above :3
Sorry about the wait, was doing alot of number games.

[Naomi-Tan]

Before you did all that analysis what were your gut reads.

I found him aggressive. not partially here or there sorta flying under the radar, but on 23 posts, thats not too hard to do.

[Naomi-Tan]

Sigh... everyone seems to be stuck on the lurking issue. Located in unamed pie chart at 4.8% (at that time, can't edit once posted) But if you direct your attention to the pie chart adjutant to it, you can see the CONTENTS of his posts and below the charts you can see a full summary on a post-by-post feed back summarised in a few sentences. long story short; the only post I can see where you show even the hint of a town read, is with munkir and even then you cast doubt on that in the very same post. you spent around 4/10ths of your time attacking others, 3/10ths talking about things that are null/mute points and 2/10ths of the time defending yourself.

Additionally, that activity percentage is off, cause if I was to condense your double/tripple/quad posts down, it would lose; 6 posts out of the 23 you had at the time, so your rapid post spam, did nothing really in the long haul, cause its easy to eliminate. So expanding a little the 3 things that made me drop my vote in the first place are, (think of this a TL/DR without the reasons why);

1) Train Hoping; You voted 4 times over the duration of 5 days. if it wasn't for the fact im british that total would be 4 time over 4 days (1:1 Ratio)
2) Lurking; Hovering just perfectly under the radar
3) Only 1 town defence, showing your not trying to work out who is town as you only have attack targets not town reads
4) Trying to recall any comment that is excessively focused on (which is a good way to draw attention away from yourself)
5)

Over reacting

- that one is new. but you did make me laugh my ass off when I first saw your reaction, man it was funny.

[Naomi-Tan]

I read your questions, they seemed to be a form of sarcasm, so I ignored them, but I have started a global word/character count pre-post 492. out of spite.

[Naomi-Tan]

That'll drive up my post count! Then you'll think I'm less scummy, right?

No, it is a number of contributing factors. that makes you scummy, low activity isn't the biggest focus of my attention.

Or did you consider that perhaps exclusively number of posts isn't such a good metric to measure on?

I did, which is why I evaluated the contents of every post you had done invisually to decide if it had content defending a player, or going on the offensive, or just null, even separated self defence out.

That's hilarious, because you yourself went after GGG for defending WW. So are you going to accuse for not defending other players? Or are you going to accuse me when I inevitably do defend other players?

Yes, defending a player who was trolling readily is not a good thing for town, now on the matter of munkir I am of course biest, but we are looking at you not me. technically speaking you had no reason as scum to put forth the statement, but you may also been setting him up to sheep you, which new players can be lead to do. you could also been trying to give false posatives, but at the end of the post you do turn it back on him saying he is suspicious making you feel less inclined to believe he is town. so it was a form of generosity and a case of making sure your data is as true as you feel that I put it down as a defence.

So Naomi, even if you think I change my vote too often, can you at least point out which votes of mine you don't think were justified (I'll give you my vote on you as a freebie! )

Say if I did something like this would you think I'm super scummy?

VOTE: Naomi
VOTE: Droog
VOTE: AWA
VOTE: Flubbernugget
VOTE: kuror0
VOTE: Whomping Willow
VOTE: OriginalChris
VOTE: Crazypianist1116
VOTE: Flames
VOTE: Munkir
VOTE: istott
VOTE: GGG
VOTE: Riddleton
VOTE: Flubbernugget

Now I've voted a total of 17 times. That makes me the scummiest player of all, right?

Well right now yes I believe you are, but this was an obvious sarcastic reason to vote multiple times.

There I answered your questions.

Pedit; Well the one on my self, because I know im town and 100% biest on that matter, the one on Droog, as he was freaking out about losing his neighbour which as a powerrole player who would lose the role, is understandable, Willow one is justified.. and your vote on Flubber seems WAY over the top for what it is.

[Naomi-Tan]

I'm too sleepy right now (given its 3am) to get into that GGG, however; Chart 3 now has a word count and charater count of all players, it relates to nothing, but was something I did anyway.

[Naomi-Tan]

Thinking of looking over everyone and giving gut readings on everyone, as we are getting late into D1, See you in about 6-7 hours of post readings.

[Naomi-Tan]

Please learn the terms you're using to soapbox your 'omg so controversial & edgy' opinions, before you embarrass yourself further.

You really are a douchebag. I just think you should know this. I don't care what your sexual preference or anything else pertaining to the real life you is or isn't, but I can say that online, you are a total tool. I say this hoping that all the douchebags and tools of the world don't get offended by me adding you to their group.

As far as being controversial or edgy, neither thought ever crossed my mind. I stated my opinion, which is that being politically correct is blatantly stupid in all regards. If someone is mentally slow (for instance), why is it morally wrong to say "retarded?" The word "retard" was an integral part of the English language long before it ever became some sort of insult. The same goes for the word "gay," which in reality means nothing whatsoever about sexual preference. If anything, being gay (joyful, happy, cheerful) should be a good thing. Some random person took offense to this word though somewhere down the line, and all of a sudden it is "morally reprehensible" to use it. The same goes for "fag," which we've all heard is a bundle of sticks. Again, somewhere down the line, some overly sensitive individual was literally called a "bundle of sticks" and took such offense that the word itself became a slur. The real problem there lies in the first person who took such great offense to the word, rather than the idiots who attacked someone based on their sexuality.

Let us not forget that being PC is essentially just an over-compensation for stereotypes. That's understandable to a point, but really, it is a logical fallacy. Just because someone takes offense to something doesn't mean it isn't also true. Airports scan for arab/muslim individuals far closer than some white, 90-year old grandmother, but being PC would say that anyone has an equal chance to be a terrorist, and targeting arabs is racial profiling. The issue is that while it is true that anyone can be a potential terrorist, it is far more likely that someone from a middle-eastern nation would be far more likely to be involved in an Islamic terrorist organization than the white, 90 year old grandmother from the suburbs. If in the future, there is a large upswing of white, 90 year old grandmother terrorist groups, I'm positive that they will be targeted at airports as well.

All that being said, my point is that words are words no matter what. The INTENT of the word is what really matters, rather than what the exact word is. You hear people call each other the N word multiple times, even though the word's root is based on slavery and oppression of African Americans, but in the modern age, people mostly use it as a term of endearment. Should you be offended by this? Yes/No? Politically correctness says you should, regardless of the usage of the word. I find this stupid.

So yeah, call me 'controversial and edgy' for having an opinion if you want, but I simply call it an opinion. You bashing that opinion for no reason, assuming to know my mindset (I'm not sure why you'd ever think you would know what I'm thinking, but you aren't very good with the whole intuition thing), and assuming I would be embarrassed for stating my opinion means frankly that you are a self-centered asshole with no understanding of other people's motives, thought processes, or personalities.

That being said as well, you claim Flames is scummy due to you not being able to figure out his thought process. I think you probably have trouble doing this with everyone, so it's no surprise to me if you assume anyone that thinks on different wave-lengths are scummy. You and Droog agree on everything, so naturally you assume you both are town, but that's another fallacy which I think is based on your personality. A lack of intuition in the game of mafia means you either go the ultra-logical statistical route (sort of like what Naomi tried), or you simply remain bad at the game due to being naturally deficient at reading people.

Well this reply is very late (as I took a 2 day unannounced break when I found myself unmotivated to talk after no one took my huge data collecting seriously) I find on the issue of PC, I don't think people should be getting so offended so easily, the off hand 'gay' statement is something 14 year old boys tend to toss around in a play ground, Taking 'offence' to it when used as a casual descriptive adjective (Not directly using it as a insult based on personal sexual prefence) It is perfectly acceptable as when someone toss's the word Nerd/Geek/Otaku around at me in personal interactions. If you let everything get to you, you will have a bad time. Best to just go with the flow and be like whatever, like water over sand.... this went in a weird metaphorical direction, moving on and continuing the ISO

TL:DR Keep Calm, And Hunt Scum

[Naomi-Tan]

Mod:

Did you prod Naomi?

Nope I narrowly avoided the prod

[Naomi-Tan]

Naiomi,

How do crazies vote, posting, and content differ from the average.

Also it appears that you picked out crazy

did a bunch of fake graphs,

then fit the data and the argument to your pre-existing suspicions.

Have you benchmarked this system in other games say by taking 10 games, do this type of analysis and predicting scum based on it. How much better than luck is this type of pseudo analysis.

I would suggest in general to drop the spreadsheets and focus on content.

Just going back to this one; the graphs are not fake, you can confirm ALL the data your self, its below the graphs in plain view, Please don't misrepresent my graphs, they take alot of time to build partially when examining someones attacks, self defend, null, informative and defence posts, that took the best part of 4 hours.

[Naomi-Tan]

Sorry I been out for so long, Got a little distracted with life, but now is a good time to give a readout on everyone I think.

Whomping Willow - After a rocky and trolly start, they started coming in with good content, only done a couple of big content posts but over all been good at responding to people. He has shown aggression towards a few people, but not inproportionately. Currently I trust willow as a slight town read (maybe about 15% in the town side) content seems about average so... yeah all good here. Wish I had a stronger read though..

Originalchris - At the start of the game, it was pretty obvious he wasn't reading our medium length posts well enough to understand them, and wasn't going back to double check his theories, and that flipp out moment, is very painful to read back over, he pretty much attacked all my town reads at the time. However, this gave me a STRONG town feeling about him, thoughing Cation to the wind and trying to attack the most active 3 players at the time was brave and bold, It showed to me as a move that only a townie would make as scum don't really have any need to attack strong town players as a lynch on a bad town is easier and less suspicious to execute. In 242 I did feel it was slightly scummy on review as it says he trusts no one, but I guess paranoid townies are a thing. So, Good Town read on them (about 61%) As including everything above, they also defended me, and as I have said many times before and will continue to do so, like a annoying funny little meme; I Know I'm Town. (why yes this is just to urk Pianist)

crazypianist1116 - Attacked; Me, Willow, Droog, Munkir (sort of) O Chris, and Flub (though flub deserved it) So far he has attacked around half the player base, but comes off super confident when doing so, also all his pushes look either opportunistic or anti-lurky. Much like after the first time, still think he is scum. (-50%)

istott - Eeeh... looks townish... just boarding really... not really sure about them... got a few points... but not really getting where they are... 3% town?

Munkir - 90% sure he is town, all the tells are there and after a rocky start, I believe he has come out unto himself lately and is making a great contribution to town. keep it up.

droog - While he started off good and I enjoyed my conversation, as its gone on my feelings have dropped. It was all good until he shadowed me with doubt, and I can't understand why, he said it was because I explained my thought process but how does it make me scummy...whatever, But as I contuined reading my feelings got more and more doubtful to the point that now im leaning scummy side of things (maybe a -17%) sure he is ssaying alot... but im not really getting the feeling of any active looking... just reacting to situations as they arise with no time taken for his own investigating, i'm just not really seeing any original stuff bar his attack on me which I'm biest on of course, not that I think it had a well constructed anything...

GGG - Don't like him still, Like Droog, not much oringal content, he asks alot of questions but this IMO is only questions that make others look scummy when they try to answer, then again after our ealier fight and his reaction to my last post, I could be letting my emotions get the better of me in part, but either way my feels on GGG is; -34% ish Scummy

AWA - AWA had a slow start but when he has posted (which is only occasionally), I find he always address's a point or gives a large wall of thoughts on players, which seems like he is doing stuff, got a good feeling about awa, +15% Townish

kuror0 - I Don't like kuror0, lack of activity really, 6 posts across the game... 1 of which attacking me for 'fence sitting' which I don't really get, how is staying out of arguments between two people you think is town/ Arguments that are not useful for town (Ironic... I just posted a pointless response to one said argument.. I should follow my own advice..) bad for town.? in fact most every post he made has been saying something about me... personally dislike the guy now :I -40% scummy

Riddleton - replaced out, but didn't really say much when he was in... Null.

Flames682 - He has an abrasive attitude, but looking over his content, can't see anything good... nor bad really... gonna put him down as Nullish...

Flubbernugget - ~@$~"£ God... Urgh... This guy hurts... Okay, if this guy is scum, he is the worst scum I've read, if he is town, he is the worst town I've read... Worse part is, I can't even tell what alignment he is, its like a stream of shitty 1-3 line posts reacting to shit like the only thing that I can pickup from the dude with any kinda of Certainity was his post saying IIoA meaning he ignored the sheet directly below the charts detailing each post the guy made and my summary/thoughts on them... URGH... this guy is just... whatevenamireadingidon'tknow!

[Naomi-Tan]

Finally, at the end of post; post 136 you went and voted for chris, but you only mentioned him once as a mid sorta comment, rather than at the end like a bold statement, could you perhaps expand on that point as I personally feel that he isn't really doing anything and looking like he is contributing without saying much, but your RVS statement doesn't speak to me much. so I'd like more.

however
something about this seems more like
scum explaining their town thought processes
than town having town thought processes

this was 400 posts ago now
any thoughts about things ive done more recently?

Not really... everything you done since seems very reactionary rather than active really, Accept for that dumb fight over the whole political correctness merlarky and this stuff just now, which... well.. I feel Awa is more town and makes a better effort... You are kinda a wildcard IMO

[Naomi-Tan]

Naiomi,

How do crazies vote, posting, and content differ from the average.

Also it appears that you picked out crazy

did a bunch of fake graphs,

then fit the data and the argument to your pre-existing suspicions.

Have you benchmarked this system in other games say by taking 10 games, do this type of analysis and predicting scum based on it. How much better than luck is this type of pseudo analysis.

I would suggest in general to drop the spreadsheets and focus on content.

Just going back to this one; the graphs are not fake, you can confirm ALL the data your self, its below the graphs in plain view, Please don't misrepresent my graphs, they take alot of time to build partially when examining someones attacks, self defend, null, informative and defence posts, that took the best part of 4 hours.

Sorry, I shouldn't have said fake, I should have said that the data doesn't support any conclusions.

Without baseline data of to what produces scummy stats the stats only identify a posters posting style. I appreciate the effort but think your effort could be better directed at finding the scummy posts and connections between people rather than trying to find meaning in percentage of posts and post to vote ratios.

Well lurking is scummy
Only attacking others without showing your view points Is pretty scummy
Train Hoping is pretty scummy

and the charts showed all 3 to be true.... so theoretically, its true

[Naomi-Tan]

Wow are you guys serious...?

[Naomi-Tan]

No, I'm a tree

that joke was a little wooden.

[Naomi-Tan]

I agree on the whole Misrepresenting thing, Droog is REALLY bending AWA's Words :I and between the two on ISO I'm feeling Droog is more suspicious anyway. Im sure Droog isn't so stupid as to not understand what AWA is saying

[Naomi-Tan]

You sure you want me to go over that...?

[Naomi-Tan]

Well, AWA has said multiple times, its pretty obvious, right now he isn't sure who is eventually scum but thinks that guy is definitely being Anti-town by causing chaos, and without anything better that'll be who he wants, which if you go back to look at their iso they are within their right.

[Naomi-Tan]

they become nonproductive at best, and anti-town at worst.

Anti Town, not Scummy, 544, invalid +1 Miss rep Droog

awa calls flubber a 'candidate' for 'causing anti-town chaos'

Once Again, Anti-town Not Scummy

When it comes to this game, I see no significant difference between abetting scum by being flagrantly anti-town and true scum.

Your hightlighting of that block gains you +1 Miss rep, as If I haddn't read that carfully I could been miss lead as you purposely didn't bold the reason he made the statement

When it comes to this game, I see no significant difference between abetting scum by being flagrantly anti-town and true scum.

Helping Scum as town is not good for town, Weather they are scum or not is irrivelent if they are helping scum. That is what he said,

awa directly says being anti-town is the same as being scummy

Miss rep +1

awa has called flubber scummy

Miss Rep +1

awa has called flubber scummy for being anti-town

Miss Rep +1

there is a direct relationship between awa's dislke of flubber
and awa's desire to lynch flubber

There Is a Direct relationship between Droog's Dislike of awa
and Droog's desire to Lynch Awa

+1 Miss Rep

VOTE: Droog
For Miss reping 6 times in one post, and trying to force this lynch repeatly and defending someone who has put in little to no content though the entire game and had no reason to be defended (Chainsaw Defence)

Chainsaw Defense (Tarhalindur Version)
The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".
The key to identifying this tell is intent - it is possible to confuse Chainsaw Defense with a player who simply finds the attacker scummy and has no intent of defense. In general, you can be reasonably sure that this tell is involved if a) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense has not previously been especially critical of the player he is now attacking, and b) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense seems to find the player he is supposedly defending at least reasonably pro-town

[Naomi-Tan]

He said Flubber is Anti-town, and is voting him for being anti-town as any player not helping town is helping scum, due to being non-productive being useful for town. he has explained this before.

[Naomi-Tan]

No, I'm a tree.

That Joke Was Wooden

[Naomi-Tan]

they become nonproductive at best, and anti-town at worst.

Anti Town, not Scummy, 544, invalid +1 Miss rep Droog

awa calls flubber a 'candidate' for 'causing anti-town chaos'

Once Again, Anti-town Not Scummy

When it comes to this game, I see no significant difference between abetting scum by being flagrantly anti-town and true scum.

Your hightlighting of that block gains you +1 Miss rep, as If I haddn't read that carfully I could been miss lead as you purposely didn't bold the reason he made the statement

When it comes to this game, I see no significant difference between abetting scum by being flagrantly anti-town and true scum.

Helping Scum as town is not good for town, Weather they are scum or not is irrivelent if they are helping scum. That is what he said,

awa directly says being anti-town is the same as being scummy

Miss rep +1

awa has called flubber scummy

Miss Rep +1

awa has called flubber scummy for being anti-town

Miss Rep +1

there is a direct relationship between awa's dislke of flubber
and awa's desire to lynch flubber

There Is a Direct relationship between Droog's Dislike of awa
and Droog's desire to Lynch Awa

+1 Miss Rep

VOTE: Droog
For Miss reping 6 times in one post, and trying to force this lynch repeatly and defending someone who has put in little to no content though the entire game and had no reason to be defended (Chainsaw Defence)

Chainsaw Defense (Tarhalindur Version)
The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".
The key to identifying this tell is intent - it is possible to confuse Chainsaw Defense with a player who simply finds the attacker scummy and has no intent of defense. In general, you can be reasonably sure that this tell is involved if a) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense has not previously been especially critical of the player he is now attacking, and b) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense seems to find the player he is supposedly defending at least reasonably pro-town

Read again.

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh my God.

Mod: Can you please delete the above two posts? This post is exactly the same, except with correct quotation and formatting.

-----
Except I've already addressed those points.

It's clear that Flubber is just trying to add chaos and confusion to the game, and I don't particularly care about the reason. That kind of posting style, behavior, and language serves only to distract from the true goal of the game, which is to eliminate the scum. Creating distractions OF ANY KIND supports the scum. That is why I am in favor of removing Flubber from the game.

This reeks of scum
Scum would be pretty happy with this "gay is a slur" nonsense
It gives them a chance to be genuine
Which scum will take for all it's worth

You're trying to justify a lynch as though flubber is making the ruckus
He's not.

How exactly does this "reek of scum"? I'm not happy with the "gay as slur nonsense", because as I stated, creating a controversy over something completely unrelated does nothing to actually help the town, and in fact is a detriment because it causes chaos and distraction. Which I said in the very post you quoted. Can you show me exactly how Flubber ISN'T making a ruckus? Because his insistence upon creating confusion, handwaving posts that don't necessarily conform to his own ideas, and posts such as 567 and 585 which directly demand specific players to state who they think are scum without providing any kind of context or rationalization don't help the town. The only possible reason that a player would make these kinds of moves are if they are scum or some other kind of anti-town role. Either way I am in favor of a lynch.

awa's post on flubber ("flubber's antitown, therefore scum") was scummy

I believe I address this above, (and in fact in several posts since you originally posted this), but again I fail to see how my opinion that Flubber is antitown leads to me being scum. Please show me your train of thought here.

How exactly does this "reek of scum"? I'm not happy with the "gay as slur nonsense" creating a controversy over something completely unrelated does nothing to actually help the town, and in fact is a detriment because it causes chaos and distraction

This is him expressing how town getting distracted by a pointless argument over politically correct terms is stupid and town should get back on the ball and go back to scum hunting.

Can you show me exactly how Flubber ISN'T making a ruckus? Because his insistence upon creating confusion, handwaving posts that don't necessarily conform to his own ideas, and posts such as 567 and 585 which directly demand specific players to state who they think are scum without providing any kind of context or rationalization don't help the town

This asking someone (which I assume is you) to prove that Flubbers content is best for town. But that is an interruption, rather than as written. If we are looking as Written, it asks you to prove he isn't making a ruckus. after that he explains his reasons why he believes that that they are anti town, though he makes a point of not calling them scum.

[Naomi-Tan]

Durr, Posted too soon, was meant to go onto do the last bit. at the end he says that only anti-town aligned players / scum would make the actions he is making. but he is making a generalisation IMO

[Naomi-Tan]

You suggested in 648 you'd already explained
I suggested you hadn't
You then suggested you had... In 648

this is what i mean naomi

there is an explantion of his train of thought in part in that post. its this part here;

his insistence upon creating confusion, handwaving posts that don't necessarily conform to his own ideas, and posts such as 567 and 585 which directly demand specific players to state who they think are scum without providing any kind of context or rationalization don't help the town. The only possible reason that a player would make these kinds of moves are if they are scum or some other kind of anti-town role. Either way I am in favor of a lynch.

[Naomi-Tan]

Its not a Very GOOD Explanation...

[Naomi-Tan]

well if they answered then or later, I have seen them answer

[Naomi-Tan]

It was glaringly obvious AWA was being opportunistic and trying to leverage a wagon on Flubber with his whole "oh look how any anti-town Flubber is being" and dancing around calling it a scumread by heavily implying it but never explicitly holding up a neon sign with the words "I am scumreading Flubber" on it.

His attack on droog is pure desperation

1.) Droog stop intentionally using the incorrect pronoun to refer to me. There is no reason to assume I am a female, and it tell you what my gender is underneath my avatar.

Yet more attempts at psychological warfare

that I will neither fall for nor tolerate.

And also, y'know, this....

look at 648
awa told me she'd already responded to my points
i say im not sure where
she replies taht she's responded to them in 648

Can you prove that Flubber has content?

[Naomi-Tan]

What's interesting is that everyone has jumped on AWA while talk around flubs has dried up. It appears that their is a push to move discussion away from flubbs. Flubbs has had almost no content despite being a high poster. His one case on CP started with a vote and without logic to support. Then it took a few days to get that logic out of him. It was tone, essentially he was upset at being voted for and nice to Munkir. Post 635. After that it is a weak defense against AWA consisting mostly of you aren't reading my posts.

Flubbs what is your response to the argue,nets that you have little content, post fluff, and your only cast on CPs tone is not alignment indicative.

Pedit posting this before reading the last 3 posts

QFT

Can you prove that Flubber has content?

I don't see what this has to do with my post?

It had nothing to do with your post other than that I thought about it after reading it and directed it at you, Basicly getting at the same thing as GGG, why is Droog defending such a bad player rather than attacking, see chainsaw defence again.

[Naomi-Tan]

Oh and Naomi you're chainsaw defending AWA right now, gg.

Holycow your right XD

[Naomi-Tan]

I can only say he is not good at town unfortunately, which is why I jumped on you defending him.

[Naomi-Tan]

perhaps you could argue awa hasnt said 1 or 2 of those things
but if awa has not said:
flubber is scummy
flubber is anti-town
flubber is scummy for being anti-town

then why, naomi, is awa voting flubber?

I think if you read AWAs numerous clarifications, he has stated that flubs behaviour is anti town and in the absence of any good scum reads we should vote for the worst townie. While I disagree on this he has been remarkably consistent even when I tried to bait him into scum reading flubbs.

I believe AWA is voting you now though.

Pedit: CP I will try to use that feature. Some posts were done on my phone so it's much more difficult to manipulate.

Why are you okay with awa having no scum reads?

Cause its day 1

[Naomi-Tan]

...............................

[Naomi-Tan]

No... This... No... Just-No..

[Naomi-Tan]

I try to make 'analysis' Posts... so :/

[Naomi-Tan]

TierShift Please continue, your read on things is interesting and although the things from the start are nice, I would be more interested in current events given time is no longer on our side.

[Naomi-Tan]

I might get up to page 20 before DL.

I can do a skim of current events but without the context to put stuff in I'm probably gonna have skewed up views on events.

But the Issue with that it, if we don't have a lynch in 2 days its a no Lynch :s

[Naomi-Tan]

Extension: For new person to catch up

[Naomi-Tan]

You think thats IIOA wait till you see my post XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Wait wait wait wait FUCKING WAIT.

You're scumreading me for calling a post of yours IIoA, and now you're saying

the same fucking thing about it???

-_-

You said it seriously... any statement with any sorta XD emotion is a joke dummy. and im not calling you scummy (I don't think) I just called you bad

[Naomi-Tan]

the confidence of not being very good?

[Naomi-Tan]

Who is Goblin D:

[Naomi-Tan]

We know that...

[Naomi-Tan]

We know that...

Oh sorry, you said Droog I thought you said; Flubber

[Naomi-Tan]

Wait a second.... how do you know he is town?

[Naomi-Tan]

Cause no Scum could be so terrible.

[Naomi-Tan]

Still want you to answer on that one Dripping

[Naomi-Tan]

Before someone accuses me of not reading her response to CP:

Cause no Scum could be so terrible.

I don't really get anything from this.

Scum have to put in at least some effort to appear townie, Flubber puts in so little effort and says so little that you cant say he is pushing for anyones lynch, or sheeping, so he is too bad to be scum.

[Naomi-Tan]

Before someone accuses me of not reading her response to CP:

Cause no Scum could be so terrible.

I don't really get anything from this.

Scum have to put in at least some effort to appear townie, Flubber puts in so little effort and says so little that you cant say he is pushing for anyones lynch, or sheeping, so he is too bad to be scum.

Why Yes I do Realise this is a terrible argument. But I can't see on what plane of existence he would be scum.

Pedit: He is so bad though...

[Naomi-Tan]

AWA needs to go regardless of alignmemt at this point.

Why?

[Naomi-Tan]

It's not looking like we will make a choice pre-deadline :s

So... Day one predictions time; I think the final scum team will be; Droog, crazypianist1116 and I can't decide on the last person
Droog for this Awa train which im pretty sure will end in a town flip and we will be down a good player
Crazypianist for his train hoping and attacking of the weakest players whoever they may be and good opportunistic nature

People Who (I Think) I would be unable to out argue during the day phases, if they attempted to start a lynch train on me; Droog, Crazy, Willow, Awa, Teir

Town reads; Munkir, Awa, Willow
Munkir just seems to be too genuine to be scum..
Awa - Posts big walls and has stated and restated the reasons why they are not scummy for what they said
Willow - I have a feeling under that troll skin, is a monster waiting in the shadows like batman

Well, do you know whats Weird to me. This whole argument is over Awa attempting to lynch Flubs for being anti-town, yet the

majority

Entirety, including flubs himself, of the lynch train has ignored crazypianist1116, and GGG's votes on flubber too.

[Naomi-Tan]

XD ^

[Naomi-Tan]

Sigh. It's clear to me that Tier is yet another person who isn't actually interested in reading what I'm saying, he just sees lots of words and thinks "hmm that's a lot of words, probably no content in there at all." I note that he only comments on my shorter posts, but handwaves my longer posts as either IioA (with no justification) or simply says "I disagree with all of this." I also note that he tends to agree with droog quite a lot, which is interesting considering that they are supposedly neighbors (of an unknown alignment) and that I've already addressed everything droog has had to say in my prosecution. Does anyone else see this trend?

im neighbors with goofball
go on inventing scumreads for anyone who agrees with me
and townreads for anyone who agrees with you

((oh, that, word, 'inventing'!
is it too similar to 'pretending?'
is it psychological warfare?
darn this clarafication could have been its own post))

Oh no, I voted you cause all your posts were aggressive plays, they had content pretty much all of them anyway. But off the point, I just can't think of a way this kinda behavour would be pro-scum, just pro-suck

[Naomi-Tan]

Well deadline is approaching and with no one having much to say I guess there isn't much to say to prevent AWA's Lynch, Im looking forward to seeing how this reflects on people post flip though.

[Naomi-Tan]

could you be convinced you into a Droog Lynch?

[Naomi-Tan]

Droog:
AWA HAS NEVER SAID FLUBBER WAS SCUM FOR BEING ANTITOWN, JUST THAT HE WANTED HIM LYNCHED FOR IT.

Just like GGG and most of all istott, who has got a surprising amount less shtick for it.

Think thats bad;

awa has called flubber scummy
awa has called flubber anti-town
awa has called flubber scummy for being anti-town

[Naomi-Tan]

... You were quoting things from behind the point you originally made... thats kinda reachy.

[Naomi-Tan]

That's l-1 for AWA

The irony here is that we are lynching the person who is most destructive to the town.

Well then... guess this is the time for a roleclaim, Im staying off this train, so its on record that I wasn't on it :I

[Naomi-Tan]

While we are in this period between waiting for a roleclaim though... could I ask everyone who they think scum would target tonight?

[Naomi-Tan]

Why is the question Wifom? I mean, If your town, you basicly say your strongest read, but you could also lie... I see... Well.. okay then, lets change the question to; Who do you think are town right now?

[Naomi-Tan]

That's l-1 for AWA

The irony here is that we are lynching the person who is most destructive to the town.

Well then... guess this is the time for a roleclaim, Im staying off this train, so its on record that I wasn't on it :I

You think it is the towns best interest to lynch no one over a say 80% townie? This post seems scummy you are more concerned with how you appear the whether AWA is town or not.

Na, Its more the fact that I'm certain no matter what I do I can't change this lynch without dieing... So im resigned to just seeing how it reflects on people post flip at this point. Still, Interested in a roleclaim so we can mabye use the some of the remaindering time for sepeclution.

[Naomi-Tan]

Scum are gonna kill regardless based on who they think is the biggest threat (which i'd guess would be tier, droog or you.) I just find it really intresting to examine Pre-flip and Post-Flip Feelings towards players.

[Naomi-Tan]

VOTE: AWA

Cheers.

Jerk Lynch :I

Anyway, we can keep talking until flip according to the rules.

[Naomi-Tan]

Well while we are in twilight just want to express my thoughts on the situation. I think it was rather sad that we spent the last week bouncing back and forth on AWA and Droog the whole argument got old with me real fast so I felt unmotivated to read, I knew this situation would continue until lynch :/ I just wish that it wasn't AWA thats going, but I guess we'll see if I was in the right to defend AWA all this time at least and it should reflect on Droog rather well too.

[Naomi-Tan]

Why do you think Willow is scum?

[Naomi-Tan]

One Shot Watcher, Watched Teir last night

VOTE: DrippingGoofball As the only person to Vist Teir last night (AKA the killer)

[Naomi-Tan]

So L-1 to my count (11 alive, 6 votes to flip)

[Naomi-Tan]

yeah but if someone counter claims scum is fucked. I don't think we're multi-ball as the game was approved for normallity

[Naomi-Tan]

also, since naomi's a watcher
do we get any discussion about who good targets for her are?
i wont say 'visit x' because then no one will kill x
but its worth thinking about

One shot Droog, I don't have it anymore.

[Naomi-Tan]

Seems to me for a 13 player game, 2 scum 2 warewolf, 2 unconfirmed neighbours a 1 shot watcher... seems a little under balanced to me.

[Naomi-Tan]

I wish I had thought to though doubt on goob pre-vote to fish out allies :I

[Naomi-Tan]

VC

I wish I had thought to though doubt on goob pre-vote to fish out allies :I

I have no allies, I'm the last of my two-person faction.

Well you say that.... but we can't trust you really.. I'm just struggling to believe 4 scum, 9 town. seems too lob sided even with two factions.

[Naomi-Tan]

I buy it. Especially with a watcher.

I would with a full watcher, but im a 1 shot, :/

[Naomi-Tan]

welp the other team is flubs and tell tale then.

[Naomi-Tan]

all of the heads are confused @_+

[Naomi-Tan]

Naomi-Tan: Probably town by POE, but no one thing in particular that I'd point to and be able to say 'this is why she's town'. No exonerating interactions with the wolves but nothing damning either.

Why do you think Naomi would fabricate a Watcher claim to incriminate her partner?

Yeah this, from a tactical view point it makes no sense, All it would take would be for another watcher to be in the game and boom 1v1 situation and if the other person denied it, I would look so in the wrong... but yeah today I skirted pretty much, I wanna see what happens over night type thing..

[Naomi-Tan]

So, Once again no kill, suspect the possibility of the other team having some-kinda recruitment role maybe? to bloater there numbers...

[Naomi-Tan]

yesterday there was 1 kill, we theorise there being 2 teams, so where is the second kill?

[Naomi-Tan]

Im not the FIRST to Theorize it :I

[Naomi-Tan]

Beginning to think DGB's Mafia Watcher theory was legit

what?

[Naomi-Tan]

Thanks droog, so what we can take from this, is the last mafia faction don't have a killing role, and we will just have to find them in the day phases.

[Naomi-Tan]

Thanks droog, so what we can take from this, is the last mafia faction don't have a killing role, and we will just have to find them in the day phases.

That's what you draw from this?

It seems jailkeeper or successful doctor and 1 faction is much more probable then 1 faction with a night kill and a gunsmith to find the other faction and the other crippled. Another option is scum choosing not to kill someone so we hit mylo instead of Lylo. (Haven't checked the math on it).

Naiomi you have quit scum hunting today and are just doing set up spec. It looks scummy.

Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Those affecting a role's alignment (no Cults).

So the second mafia Team isn't a recruitment.

So that rules out recruitment. so everyone's alignment is as it was in the start. Then you have to think on the number of players, assuming 2 scum, 2 mafia that leaves 9 town, if there was two killing roles in those anti-town factions you'd be stuck with town LYLO on day 2 (assuming they miss lynched) which would be rather imbalanced. Infact it would be awkward as heck. and you can say; what about doctor or JK, but we havn't seen either of those people comeup and weather or not they did anything is just as valid as my theory that the team had no kill. but Im going with no kill due to (Theoretically) stopping the kill twice in a row, is unlikely, and if there was a doc, I would assumed they would of saved the person I watched :I

[Naomi-Tan]

But we did have a watcher

I said yesterday that I was a one shot watcher, its why goob is dead...

[Naomi-Tan]

Why are you completely discounting only having one faction?
Why aren't you hunting for the second faction you believe to exist.

Why are you attacking me if you believe there IS only one faction? Considering I just lynched someone with a role claim? If you have a problem with how lost I am you can say so :I

[Naomi-Tan]

but its just POE, I know nothing for certain other than team 2 has no recruitment roles, the last wolf said he was the last of his team and that makes me think its two teams one without kills :I

[Naomi-Tan]

So that rules out recruitment. so everyone's alignment is as it was in the start. Then you have to think on the number of players, assuming 2 scum, 2 mafia that leaves 9 town, if there was two killing roles in those anti-town factions you'd be stuck with town LYLO on day 2 (assuming they miss lynched) which would be rather imbalanced. Infact it would be awkward as heck. and you can say; what about doctor or JK, but we havn't seen either of those people comeup and weather or not they did anything is just as valid as my theory that the team had no kill. but Im going with no kill due to (Theoretically) stopping the kill twice in a row, is unlikely, and if there was a doc, I would assumed they would of saved the person I watched :I

Naomi are you fishing? Also 6-2-2 is not lylo. 2 scum factions isn't terribly unbalanced. You're forgetting the fact that each scum faction still has to kill the other to win.

Mafia watcher does seem possible..

6-2-2 with 2 night kills and a miss lynch would make 3-2-2, with 2 kill roles, there would be no way for town to win right?

[Naomi-Tan]

And you're not scum hunting.

_{Your not either... just pointing out how stupid I am like GGG...}

[Naomi-Tan]

I should ask Droog to explain my stuff properly more often...

[Naomi-Tan]

i mean, clearly we have at least one faction
and no one died last night
so there's some doctor/bulletproof/etc. running around

remember only 1 kill happened ngiht 1

so which assumption is more reasonable:

1. there were 2 kills night 1 but only 1 person died
2. the gunsmith was a red herring

because i just went through why 2 is a poor assumption

Didn't we kill the gunsmith day 1 though? so he'd had no chance to act?

[Naomi-Tan]

Who's up for a Naiomi wagon

If I had to speculate, You, GGG, and Piantist ... Ironic.. the 3 people I voted, even if one of you was trolling at the time.. and it seems to be from my lack of usefulness :I though I did ignore day 2 after I was like hey, this guy killed, im a one-shot watcher, go lynch... ... but meh.. all the smart people agreed that there was a mafia team despite my lack of ability to describe it.. If I had to suggest scum I'd do GGG and Piantist still.... but I suck so bad right now that I'd feel that If I attempted to suggest such a thing everyone would turn on me

[Naomi-Tan]

Who's up for a Naiomi wagon

If I had to speculate, You, GGG, and Piantist ... Ironic.. the 3 people I voted, even if one of you was trolling at the time.. and it seems to be from my lack of usefulness :I though I did ignore day 2 after I was like hey, this guy killed, im a one-shot watcher, go lynch... ... but meh.. all the smart people agreed that there was a mafia team despite my lack of ability to describe it.. If I had to suggest scum I'd do GGG and Piantist still.... but I suck so bad right now that I'd feel that If I attempted to suggest such a thing everyone would turn on me

You were just directly responsible for a scum lynch and you feel like you "suck so bad"? Reality doesn't agree with you.

Could you please outline your GGG and Pianist reads a little more please?

Well both of them pointed out how I was bad... so I thought they thought I was scum.. and I was frustrated how I couldn't get my point across... I guess they were omgusy reads...

[Naomi-Tan]

Naiomi, what happened to Munkir?

[/b]@gif can we get a bunch of prods wrote the lurkers [/b]

Good question.

[Naomi-Tan]

Yeah it is rather Stagnant right now, we really need something to discus Just wish I had more information to give... :/

[Naomi-Tan]

naomi
make something to discuss by placing your vote somewhere

I'm not really sure where to place my vote right now though.. Im kinda a bit lost, game wise.. some things make me think some people are scum but then there actions sorta pull them back away from it... right now I only have weak suspcions and gut feelings.

[Naomi-Tan]

we could do with it.

[Naomi-Tan]

Speaking of Christmas Gonna have to LA/VC until the 27th for Christmas :3
Happy Holidays Everyone

[Naomi-Tan]

Guys... your not gonna fucking believe this... I lied about my role.. I was a full watcher and I saw the kill again XD

VOTE: Munkir
Only person who targeted droog yesterday XD

incase your wondering why I lied, didn't want to get targeted :3 but only works once

[Naomi-Tan]

N2 I watched myself... as I thought i'd been shot for using my role

[Naomi-Tan]

I don't think we are lylo, but i think munkir would be the last killer, which would mean that either way, dead or alive, we might of won.

[Naomi-Tan]

N2 I watched myself... as I thought i'd been shot for using my role

Is this normal?

I want a Munkir claim.

Why?

well... I guess it was a pretty dumb move, but I'm not very smart and I thought after getting a guy lynched I'd be high on the kill list, even though i claimed one-shot I didn't think anyone brought it really... I should of chosen more carefully.

[Naomi-Tan]

N2 I watched myself... as I thought i'd been shot for using my role

So you're bulletproof too now?

No, Droog was. Im not sure where your getting that from.

[Naomi-Tan]

If Munkir flips mafia then GGG and TTH, and less so Flubber, look good for town, since scum wants maximum credit and will just hop on. CP could be scum for that post, but Oc slot still looks worse, if Munkir's scum I think this game is pretty much wrapped up

If munkir flips mafia, i think we're done, as we got 2 Warewolfs and 1 mafia lynched... can't be more than that surely?

[Naomi-Tan]

Im thinking that there may be a JK role that may of prevented or a doc... but thats just my theory..

[Naomi-Tan]

While you're at it - please give your read on the Watcher claim.
You're still not doing that.

I have no reason to think it's not true, so Town until proven otherwise and pending the flip.

You know your play was terrible when people are suspicious of you AFTER getting a warewolf lynched with your role :I

[Naomi-Tan]

Bet I die tonight XD

[Naomi-Tan]

The heck im alive? Didn't expect this... anyway nothing new to report :/

[Naomi-Tan]

u srs brah

I wouldn't mind you going over everything one more time, in a mega post of some kind. just so I can look at your entire case and think about it.

[Naomi-Tan]

I wouldn't mind seeing All cases people got on everyone, I have lost track ^^'

[Naomi-Tan]

Ok this is most likely a stupid question but why can i see titles under peoples names they surely can't be correct can they?

If so then I think I'm seeing something I'm not suppose to see

I'm going to leave this here and see what other people think since nobody commented on it at the time. Munkir's subtitle is Townsperson. He seems inexperienced enough for this post to be a legitimate question. If he weren't town, he wouldn't have asked the question, seeing the contradiction with his own role.

That being said the rest of his posts have virtually no content and I would have had him on my leaning scum list. Not sure how to feel.

That's a real good catch, if he was scum he would have asked his scum team or pmd the mod. Does scum have day talk in normal?

unvote

GGG you yourself agreed with me. It really looked like a town slip.

And can you explain why me asking Munkir to replace out makes me scum?

I don't really understand the rest of your case. Add some interpretation between the quotes.

Naomi, who did you watch?

Thor pls claim.

I said I got no information last night :I

[Naomi-Tan]

Ok this is most likely a stupid question but why can i see titles under peoples names they surely can't be correct can they?

If so then I think I'm seeing something I'm not suppose to see

I'm going to leave this here and see what other people think since nobody commented on it at the time. Munkir's subtitle is Townsperson. He seems inexperienced enough for this post to be a legitimate question. If he weren't town, he wouldn't have asked the question, seeing the contradiction with his own role.

That being said the rest of his posts have virtually no content and I would have had him on my leaning scum list. Not sure how to feel.

I thought it was a town slip too I smiled to myself when I read it, but now I know he was scum it was genius play on his part, acting all lost and aloof and dropping an ealry town tell that made him confirmed to at least me, only thing munkir is gulity of was getting watched :3
That's a real good catch, if he was scum he would have asked his scum team or pmd the mod. Does scum have day talk in normal?

unvote

GGG you yourself agreed with me. It really looked like a town slip.

And can you explain why me asking Munkir to replace out makes me scum?

I don't really understand the rest of your case. Add some interpretation between the quotes.

Naomi, who did you watch?

Thor pls claim.

u srs brah

Just link the fuckin posts. I have my case on the Thor slot. I want your current case on the Thor slot.

Iso me angrypants

Munkir sucks at mafia, you see this as your partner and want to get a decent team mate. You dont have day talk to coach him. So you try to get him to quit.

You pointed out the townslip though. No one else thought it was a townslip until you posted about it. it was just more stupid play. Lots of scum motivation for doing it.

The second set of quotes shows Munkir vote on you being soft and without logic. The interaction feels newb scum talking to their buddy.

[Naomi-Tan]

Opsy I put my post inside the quote XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Thor could be mafia encryptor

Is encryptor considered normal?

I am thinking that he may be scum, as he is refusing to reveal his role so late in the game... there is LITERALLY one scum left..

[Naomi-Tan]

I been so fucked if I didn't hit that D2 watch XD

[Naomi-Tan]

Thanks XD