Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[Newbie]

The thing is though, why would mathdino go after me when he was declaring me town at the very beginning after the wgeurts/Constantine mod kill? He could've kept it that way and went after an easier target. It just doesn't add up.

UNVOTE:

This is kinda what I already said earlier, but okay.

And this is exactly what I mean. If I make a case against acryon, you're just going to pick at it and see scummy motivations.

Like if you're willing to suddenly go after him for something as tenuous as that, you are really out of place calling me bullheaded for suspecting him

so talk to me why you

weren't

before that

I already said why a while back. His actions just came off genuine and the fact that he put in work that I don't think scum would do.

[borkjerfkin]

I already said why a while back. His actions just came off genuine and the fact that he put in work that I don't think scum would do.

That was nebulous as hell back then and still is now and you are offering me nothing other than your own personal gut which I can do nothing useful with

but I'm bullheaded

[borkjerfkin]

Like I can believe that you legitimately believe that

It's harder for me to buy that you think that should convince me

[borkjerfkin]

especially if you've been reading the thread today

[borkjerfkin]

which, at times, i kinda doubt you have

[borkjerfkin]

I want to believe acryon's not just coasting through this as a fencesitter knowing Newbie and I are probably gonna be lynched in succession. Reading through him D4 again.

meanwhile I still feel like this is opportunism because your constant opinion switches (esp. regard to this slot) seem to have no identifiable catalyst from acryon himself

[borkjerfkin]

Edit: I stop raging and attempt diplomacy with Newbie and acryon.

and I mean really if one of them is scum how is this course of action gonna clue me into it more easily?

[Mathdino]

I don't want to lock in if I'm a lynch target. If I had 2 lynches left, the game would be easy, just lynch Newbie and acryon in succession and win.

Unfortunately, I only have one lynch to push and I'm constantly second-guessing myself here.

Edit: Talking to them about each other, presumably.

[borkjerfkin]

Edit: Talking to them about each other, presumably.

That quickly turns into a game of 'who is better at arguing'

if only that were indicative of alignment

[Newbie]

Okay well. I mean, what do you want me to do, lol? It's kind of obnoxious that you're mad that I can't convince you to unvote mathdino.

I think the type of effort he put in set him apart from VD and Wisdom. Basically, I don't think the way he came to his conclusions were scum-motivated.

[Mathdino]

That quickly turns into a game of 'who is better at arguing'

if only that were indicative of alignment

Yet talking and arguing to me became indicative of alignment.

@Newbie: Effort is not alignment indicative.

[Mathdino]

I stand by my statement that your townread of me even as you scumread BMWS is odd, to say the least. Your reasons for townreading me have never had that much substance.

[borkjerfkin]

It's kind of obnoxious that you're mad that I can't convince you to unvote mathdino.

I'm mad that you haven't really thought to try, and there are reasons aside from my Mathdino read why I might want you to attempt that

Basically, I don't think the way he came to his conclusions were scum-motivated.

Can you please at least attempt to go into detail?

[borkjerfkin]

Yet talking and arguing to me became indicative of alignment.

With the caveat that I dredged up early game stuff, sure.

Also there is a semantic argument about what 'diplomacy' means but I don't really find it interesting

[borkjerfkin]

UNVOTE:

there square fucking one because I owe it to the game to reset

come at me with your stuff

[Mathdino]

Who are you talking to?

What is stuff?

[borkjerfkin]

i dunno

anyone with anything

[borkjerfkin]

i have the open mind of a child or some shit

[borkjerfkin]

like

three out of the four of you are on my team

and i'm just not feeling it and that's sad

[Mathdino]

1. 241 is not a response to a scumpartner.
2. The ol 'two sides to this town' (ain't big enough for the both of us) post, scum would not explicitly draw a line and step on the side with both their scumpartners.
3. 387 leads everyone STRAIGHT to Wisdom if wgeurts ended up getting lynched, which was a real possibility.
4. His 'why did you do that?!?!' to Malakittens after she hammered. This is gut. His response was literally EXACTLY how I'd have expected him to respond as town.
5. "I'm remembering [Wisdom] saying that he caught Mala's softclaim during D1 twilight." This must have come from town because if he were scum, he would've just asked Wisdom in the scum PT. He wouldn't have used that wording.
6. Puts Constantine at L-1 but tries to get the town to slow down the lynch until Const checks in.
7. The smoking... anti... gun?

Wait, so if you 3 are the masons, could someone explain the "specific setup-related thing" that happened starting with post 666? I thought that that was mason-related but it doesn't seem to be...

This. Could not have come from scum. He would've just asked scum in the PT.

I'd like Newbie's rebuttal to this in full if she wants to lynch BMWS today.

[Newbie]

@Newbie: Effort is not alignment indicative.

Yeah, but I guess you could say that about a lot of things.

Can you please at least attempt to go into detail?

Okay. Well, first off, when he suspected someone, his reasons had substance and weren't completely

unreasonable

. What really struck me was the effort he put into finding riddleton's meta. Also, when it come to the wgeurts mason fishing ordeal, I can see why he reacted the way he did with the setup of the game. When he showed examples of wgeurts role fishing from a later game, I think the point was to say that it is after all possible for wgeurts to do something like that and prove his point was totally unfounded.

The fact that he's town and was wrong a lot at the same time isn't impossible. It happened to me a lot as town. It's just that town tends to do really scummy things that other townies catch on to and can't tell whether it's scum or town motivated.

Although, his case against me is weird where it involves bmws. He's probably just overconfident about bmws, though.

[Mathdino]

It sucks when the only person who properly understands my point when it came to wgeurts and mason-fishing is the person I want to lynch.

[Mathdino]

So just to be clear, you find my jumping on bad lynches outweighed by the more townish things I've done? Because your post also doesn't illustrate why BMWS is jumping on easy lynches and I'm just misguided.

Seriously? The fact that your posts have way more substance than bmws's, and

you actually searched up Riddleton's meta in terms of him voting his scum partners

all come off as genuine town to me and tip the scales in your favor.

Newbie

is

being consistent, I'll give her that.

Looking through BMWS again.

[Newbie]

1. 241 is not a response to a scumpartner.
2. The ol 'two sides to this town' (ain't big enough for the both of us) post, scum would not explicitly draw a line and step on the side with both their scumpartners.
3. 387 leads everyone STRAIGHT to Wisdom if wgeurts ended up getting lynched, which was a real possibility.
4. His 'why did you do that?!?!' to Malakittens after she hammered. This is gut. His response was literally EXACTLY how I'd have expected him to respond as town.
5. "I'm remembering [Wisdom] saying that he caught Mala's softclaim during D1 twilight." This must have come from town because if he were scum, he would've just asked Wisdom in the scum PT. He wouldn't have used that wording.
6. Puts Constantine at L-1 but tries to get the town to slow down the lynch until Const checks in.
7. The smoking... anti... gun?

Wait, so if you 3 are the masons, could someone explain the "specific setup-related thing" that happened starting with post 666? I thought that that was mason-related but it doesn't seem to be...

This. Could not have come from scum. He would've just asked scum in the PT.

1. How is what he's doing right there any different from this? And one of them is scum.

2. You have a point, but at the same time, he didn't even vote for Wisdom when it came down to it, and it was pretty much obvious that wgeurts was town after VD's death.

3. Again, that's a good point, but he didn't even vote for Wisdom.

4. This is the weakest argument in this post. Why not use the chance to look like you're doing something?

5. The same thing. Why couldn't it all just be a show? Tbqh, Constantine probably would've gotten voted up anyway.

6. Once again, it could just be a show.

[borkjerfkin]

I think the point was to say that it is after all possible for wgeurts to do something like that and prove his point was totally unfounded.

Do something like what? Because that is the crux of the issue here. What exactly had Wgeurts really done rolefishing-wise by 162?

If you can give me a good reason why MD was paranoid here because of maybe-rolefishing-with-a-hefty-dose-of-inference but was not in the

later

game (especially with the lack of a townflip here at this point) with SUPER-OBVIOUS-AND-BLATANT-AND-EXPLICIT rolefishing then I am all ears

fuck did I not want to rehash this again ugh