Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[borkjerfkin]

and Wgeurts' 172 is a completely organic 'the fuck?' response to that and he just plods ahead with it

[Newbie]

No, I'm voting because in that post there is some real scummy stuff. Just because Newbie voted me doesn't give im the right to be immune from me. The fact you're saying this

shows a weak

link

woth Newbie

, if he flips scum I'll be suspicious of you.

I just realised, you're mason fishing, aren't you? Interactive tells are very different in a mason game.

Yeah, this is enough for me to UNVOTE: Victor

VOTE: wgeurts

I think wgeurts' use of that word set the whole thing off.

[borkjerfkin]

what the hell does 'link' mean in context that even hints at 'mason' and not 'scumbuddy'

i mean come on, he even elaborates in context in the same goddamn sentence

[Mathdino]

If I may kindly direct everyone to post 2063.

[Newbie]

Right, but it's not like wgeurts would elaborate that he was masonfishing. He probably felt that last part was fluff since I wouldn't flip scum.

[borkjerfkin]

111 is a non-attack
116 is a hedge, but the hedge is against the fact that he's defensive. Not scummy to me but whatever.
139 is a balk at an apparent OMGUS
161 is a balk at showing inconsistency wrt self-meta

i don't care about anything that came after 162 because that obviously didn't influence 162

this is all just 'reasons for a scumread' and that's fine, but nothing about any of that sets off anything that should make 162 inherently prone to accusations of mason fishing and I think that was a terrible inference to make there regardless of what the previous read was on the slot. It was definitely a bad reason for the vote switch. Both TTH and Silverwolf reacted negatively to that point and wgeurts just seemed confused by it. I really don't know what else to say about it.

[borkjerfkin]

Right, but it's not like wgeurts would elaborate that he was masonfishing. He probably felt that last part was fluff since I wouldn't flip scum.

Are you even listening to yourself? He was town; he had no fucking idea what you'd flip.

[Newbie]

I think mathdino was working with the idea that wgeurts was scum and wgeurts knew what I would flip.

[Newbie]

I'm done for tonight. I just really don't think mathdino is scum.

[borkjerfkin]

Right, but it's not like wgeurts would elaborate that he was masonfishing. He probably felt that last part was fluff since I wouldn't flip scum.

Like what does this even mean? Even if I didn't know he was town, you have to jump through hoops to even get to a 'I'm masonfishing' interpretation there at all, and I don't see how anything Wgeurts did prior to that point at all supports that premise unless you argue that it's ok cause Mathdino was confbiasing due to his scumread.

p-edit: yes I can gather that this is his argument since it is the only even remotely sane one coming from town.

My argument is, and has always been, that the amount of confbias needed to genuinely interpret Wgeurts' 140 like Mathdino did to make post 162 stretches his credibility to the point that I think it is much, much more likely that he was fabricating the read. I just don't believe he genuinely thought that's what Wguerts was doing; it's pretty obvious to me that it wasn't, and it was obvious to TTH and Silverwolf too.

The fact that he brought Stack the Deck into it to prove a point is

even more scummy

because it is situationally wrong for so many reasons that I refuse to rehash.

I'm done for tonight too - I can't hammer this point any harder.

[blindmewithscience]

also inb4 we get no post from bmws ever again and we wait on replacement and get no extension cause mods can just make up whatever rules about deadlines they want without consultation

Return from the dead!!!!!
Yea, my life has just been really hectic this past week. I've just done a read through of everything, and damn, you guys can really confuse people and then reads around quickly


Anyways, phone posting now. My general thoughts:
2106-2142: MD-acryon argument that changed both of their reads, leading to an acryln unvote. It was basically MD talking about acryln sharing his reads, sheeping Borks argument, not really scum hunting. Acryon has been town for me, and this brought him only slightly closer to neutral. This also begins to lean MD to a sloghtly lower state of null scum. MD was actively encouraging him to scum hunt. At this point, I was somewhat confused.
2143-2174: first off, what a delicious prod. This section was newbie being "you guys are all scum reading me, just do something to get this over with, and pls lynch action". Not too much to say on this section. Still only kinda confused.
2175-2199(basically page 88): At this point, I began going like "whaaaaaaaaaa..." . Things got somewhat less confusing with 2202, but wow. Typos, misinterpretations, weird voting, everything.

Newbie

, where did your vote in 2197 come from? WIFOM in 2199. I agree with the General sentiment of 2193.

While I can understand the misinterpretation my Newbie, I really don't know what to think about this page as a whole.

And then We get to more lovely stuff up until around 2240, it's just everyone resetting their reads, not much important that I saw.

Newbie

: Do you want me to respond to your 2248 personally, or would you rather not have me in this?(just making sure, in case you want an "outside perspective" of me )
Hey Bork: I understand your frustrations with MD and the whole wgeurts role fishing rhing. To me, I can see how the arguments from either side could make sense.
If anything happens overnight, I'll be back tomorrow morning for a while.

[Mathdino]

I'm not planning on responding to 2248, so you can go ahead if you feel like it.

[acryon]

Just got back in this morning. Reading over, and I'll have my comments shortly.

[acryon]

Newbie’s whole flip-flop on Dino is obviously extremely weird. I suppose this could come from very confused town feeling backed into a corner, but I am more inclined to believe it comes from flailing scum. Why Newbie voted BMWS is also quite weird and I’m not sure why there is a resistance to bring a case on me. The seemingly empty scum-case on me feels similar to the seemingly empty town-case on Mathdino from Newbie. Town tend to have reasons for their reads, and the reluctance to give good ones doesn't feel right.

I feel like it

has

to be one of Mathdino/Newbie at this point, and I think these last two pages while I was gone hammered that in even more-so. I want to be skeptical and believe that BMWS could be scum so I don’t feel dumb later, but 2260 just sounds really town.

[reinoe]

MOD STUFF

Classic

VOTE COUNT!!!!

borkjerkfin-
Newbie- mathdino, acryon (L-1)
Mathdino-
blindmewithscience-newbie (L-2)
acryon-

not voting- blindmewithscience, borkjerfkin


With 5 Alive it's 3 to lynch.

Day ends in (expired on 2014-11-23 07:00:00)


Reykjavik is really hard to pronounce.

[Newbie]

Newbie

: Do you want me to respond to your 2248 personally, or would you rather not have me in this?(just making sure, in case you want an "outside perspective" of me )

Go ahead.

I'm not planning on responding to 2248, so you can go ahead if you feel like it.

So you want me to unvote bmws, but you won't engage me on it? K. Now I understand how bork felt.

[Mathdino]

Uh, no, I want BMWS to respond to it. If I try to engage it's just gonna end up in a cesspool of WIFOM.

[Mathdino]

I could look at Riddle and Constantine again. Maybe blindmewithscience. You, newbie, acryon and wgeurts are not people I would be lynching anytime soon.

Newbie confirmed town.

Agreed, this was one of the reasons I got a townread on Newbie, the way she thought I may be a mason felt really genuine.

and Wisdom flips town, Newbie is scum.

Nah, doubt it

Solely via PoE, prolly blindmewithscience

But don't really think it's acryon. His case and general attitude on me feels tunnely town. I expect scum to either be fairly neutral or WK me, in order to extract max cred with my flip. Which is why blindmewithscience and especially Constantine fit.

You had my thoughts already. Constantine and blindme most likely. Outside chance on Riddle.

I don't actually have any thoughts on this, but I had nothing better to do.

[blindmewithscience]

Sorry for this short response, but it's late at night and I'm tired and phone posting. Also apologies for no links or spoilers or yada yada yada.
1. With this statement, you make the assumption that either me or acryon is scum. You find that both avryon and I have had interactions with twenties that don't seem like they're scum-scum interactions. You then implicitly state that because wine of us must be scum, this point for me as town is null. Because your assumption contradicts the conclusion, you say the conclusion is wrong. But from my perspective (and I believe MD's as well) the assumption is wrong. This leads to an eventual incorrect conclusion.
2-3. towards the end of day 2, I just became really confused about everything. My reads ha d changed, the masonteam claimed, and tons of other stuff happened. I didn't want to vote until I could clear up things for me (you might be able to see this confusion in my late day posts. Idk though.) also note my V/LA for the last part of the day.
4-6. I feel like there's bo way to say something to respond to this point that would be any good. I guess you'd just have to trust me in this, but I don't consider myself a person that does things for towncred--i just do things that help me to determine scum (or clear up whatever someone said )
Super tired atm. Tell me if anything I said above is blatantly wrong or just superconfusing. I shift any and all blame to The earths rotation

[Mathdino]

BMWS, I'm pretty sure you as scum would be someone who does stuff for towncred, considering that's half the point of being scum. Your response to 4-6 rests on the notion of your being town; most not-horrible town don't go for towncred.

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: mathdino

[reinoe]

Acryon has received a bacon cheeseburger flavored prod!

[acryon]

Whoops, I didn't realize it had been so long. I'm here, but afraid I don't have anything much extra to add at this point since not much has happened since my last post.

[acryon]

Although the prod was delicious, so I'm almost glad I got it.

[borkjerfkin]

why has your vote been sticky on newbie ever since 2155?