Advance Wars UPick!--Game Over..?

[Bookitty]

I don't think Ffery is scum.

I don't understand this part of your post, Honey bee:

If var flipped scum I couldn't see you putting a fair amount of trust in another persons read in order to bus someone.

What do you mean by this, precisely? It's hypothetical, since Var flipped town, but I don't see how trust would enter into it either way.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

The events I've described last page are a million miles removed from her towngame, book

[Honey bee]

I don't think Ffery is scum.

I don't understand this part of your post, Honey bee:

If var flipped scum I couldn't see you putting a fair amount of trust in another persons read in order to bus someone.

What do you mean by this, precisely? It's hypothetical, since Var flipped town, but I don't see how trust would enter into it either way.

I don't really believe he'd bus like that. It's an easy thing to doubt what people think is a scumslip, and if var was scum there would be incentive. But as town it would be a lot easier to just blend in and share the suspicion.

I realize bpc never voted var, but he treated var as practically confirmed since fairly early in the game so I still think it's significant.

[fferyllt]

orcinus do me the courtesy of metaing my recent games if you haven't already done so.

Several weeks ago Cabd told me I'd lost my mojo. He's right. I hope I'll get it back, or get something different that works ok in its place.

Anyway, I'll probably post my reads in the neighborhood because some of them aren't ready for prime time. That may be the only neighborhood post I make until this is resolved.

[Cheetory6]

@orci

,
i) How long have you been scumreading ffery?
ii) Can you make this case on ffery more accessible? What's the difference between her townplay and scumplay that makes this so obviously a scumgame for her?

@ffery

,
You implied that orci jumping on you was indicative of his alignment in #2406. How are you reading him now?

[fferyllt]

I'll try to make this short, but I'll be around today and tomorrow I think.

VOTE: bipolarChemist I still don't like you especially with the flip.

I feel like you would have said this with however he flipped :/

No not really. If var flipped scum I couldn't see you putting a fair amount of trust in another persons read in order to bus someone.

I meant I don't see why you can't share your read on Mara ('there' as in Mara) in this thread, even if it's related to interactions in your neighborhood (except for role-related stuff, I'm not interested in that right now).

As I said, the reason is gonna sound stupid but it's related to what I know and the scum hopefully don't know.

get off the neotank wagon i'm sorry. i missed something important earlier. we actually know the source of the neotank.

Um, am I delving into bad territory if I ask how do you know? a simple yes or no will suffice.

Anyways, I'm interested in an SMP and albert lynch right now. ABR's mara read I think is awful, as it's mostly concerned with picking at mara's bad logic about rather than why she's actually scum. Considering how he has been overtly critical of the other cases on her, I don't see why not being able to prove her towniness with her ability should affect his read. And I'm getting the feeling that him reiterating how replacing out isn't a town tell is equivocating it with being scummy. Just because you can imagine a situation that mara can replace out as scum isn't the same as proving it. The point about his skepticism about orci is unnecessary I agree with too. Until we get a scum messenger flip I don't think that discussion is helpful and just adds unnecessary wifom.

For smp other than most of his posts are lacking in anything I think is meaningful content his doubt of the claims on brian I dislike. It's just doubting the cop without any evaluation of cabds other posts. I don't see any sign of SMP scum reading abr either so smp's criticism of brian derailing the abr lynch feels like looking for things to pick at.

These two wagons have my spiritual votes, I'll reevaluate my non town reads in a bit. I think I'm liking cabd and cheet for pointing out that lynching the neotank probably won't be fruitful.

Your SMP observations are kinda where my inarticulate head was at last night. But, after some sleep and coffee, I'm questioning this mostly because I'm thinking about my scum play and I don't think I would go up against an investigation result I knew to be true because the player investigated wasn't on my team. It feels slightly more like the kind of push that a paranoid townie would make.

I played with scum-SMP in a recent mini game. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=46298

It doesn't feel the same. When I factor in time and additional experience, I'm left with a pretty weak-ish "maybe".

[fferyllt]

@orci

,
i) How long have you been scumreading ffery?
ii) Can you make this case on ffery more accessible? What's the difference between her townplay and scumplay that makes this so obviously a scumgame for her?

@ffery

,
You implied that orci jumping on you was indicative of his alignment in #2406. How are you reading him now?

quite, quite, unequivocally town. I was townreading him before. I was townreading him on day 1, though I had a few flashes of paranoia.

If orci is scum here, then what he's doing is reprehensible. It's a place I can't see him ever going intentionally, because this is just a game. I feel very sure it's coming from town paranoia, not a scum wincon.

[fferyllt]

Some players say all's fair when you're scum. And some players play that way. Others don't. I believe orci is the latter.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Um, am I delving into bad territory if I ask how do you know? a simple yes or no will suffice.

it's info shared in our hood.

orcinus do me the courtesy of metaing my recent games if you haven't already done so.

Several weeks ago Cabd told me I'd lost my mojo. He's right. I hope I'll get it back, or get something different that works ok in its place.

Anyway, I'll probably post my reads in the neighborhood because some of them aren't ready for prime time. That may be the only neighborhood post I make until this is resolved.

your recent games will take time considering i can't just ISO for tone because i also need to figure out how the people you are suspicious of are perceived. i'll try to get through it tonight

pedit cheet it's been on and off for a while. i blew a minor fuse on the 23rd in hood at her and that's when i started paying closer attention. she certainly wasn't close to the town status i listed her in my reads list.

it's hard to explain. she latches onto scumreads very heavily in our past games and she will try hard to get them lynched + push for information. when we played hydra games together she was constantly analyzing players + posts. and she does not do stuff like prioritize lurkerscum. i would expect townfery to push albert + interact more heavily with cabd, the latter especially since it's end of day 2, i've been expressing suspicion towards cabd all game, and she doesn't have a very solid read. it feels like she's not trying to figure out the game at all. another thing is as scum she will try to anticipate town movement rather than form reads and that's been the vibe i've gotten this game.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

If orci is scum here, then what he's doing is reprehensible. It's a place I can't see him ever going intentionally, because this is just a game. I feel very sure it's coming from town paranoia, not a scum wincon.

this would be difficult for you to write as scum, wouldn't it

[fferyllt]

Cabd has to be here to interact with. I have to be here to interact with him.

I interacted with him a fair bit during day 1. I don't think our paths have crossed day 2 and I don't think he's gotten back to this game since his cross country travels.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

right but you haven't made any effort to call him out

[fferyllt]

If orci is scum here, then what he's doing is reprehensible. It's a place I can't see him ever going intentionally, because this is just a game. I feel very sure it's coming from town paranoia, not a scum wincon.

this would be difficult for you to write as scum, wouldn't it

I don't know. I don't think I'd be willing to put down that strong of a read as scum.

To me, your cop clear or whatever it is doesn't even come into play because you're town by play and by motivation.

[Bookitty]

I think external factors HAVE to be considered when looking at interactions/reads. You're looking at external factors to clear Mara-slot, Orci, and both ABR and Fferyllt have described FAR more stressful situations that could detract from their ability to play the game at their best. I disagree with you that Fferyllt is scum; she's acted more like overwhelmed town all through this.

I get that she'd be a more exciting lynch but she's not a lynch I want to see today and not one I'll support. I'd go for Cabd or STD first, personally, if I was going to go with my outside possibility scumreads.

The reason SMP and Lynx are so popular as lynch targets is because they are WIDELY scumread. That may make them safe, but it doesn't make them town.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

whoa ok your MO as scum has been to town me pretty hard on single-digit pages and not reevaluating

you're lying about that aspect of your meta

[fferyllt]

right but you haven't made any effort to call him out

I've been back in the game for about 24 hours. Go back and look at the posts I made when I returned. I am trying to step back into in-the-moment because that's where I like to develop reads.

I don't think you're doing it intentionally, but you're closing down avenues where I can spontaneously do things and have them come from

my

mindset, not yours. It's pissing me off, because if you keep it up it's going to be impossible to just do my thing in a way that you can read as town.

[fferyllt]

whoa ok your MO as scum has been to town me pretty hard on single-digit pages and not reevaluating

you're lying about that aspect of your meta

iirc that meta is nearly two years old, and it was coming off the first game where I towned you on page 1. I don't recall being scum against town you since then. What games are you talking about? And you're ignoring various signs that I had fleeting concerns. Or maybe those concerns are all in the neighborhood we can't see any more.

[fferyllt]

Also, I was suggesting you look at my recent meta to see if I was consistently doing the stuff you're accusing me of not doing in this game, like building cases and staying hyperfocused on my scum reads.

In fact, go back and look at tales of you and my reads of mastin and AP.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Are you telling me to use tales of you as a towngame marker to compare this game to?

because i'm pretty sure this game ends up in the scumpile if i do that

[orcinus_theoriginal]

UNVOTE:

[fferyllt]

Are you telling me to use tales of you as a towngame marker to compare this game to?

because i'm pretty sure this game ends up in the scumpile if i do that

Actually Mafia on the Air, Serum and Steel II and a couple recent newbies are more indicative of my current town meta and how I play under irl stress and lack of time. but the stuff you're looking for from me in this game, I don't think was significantly present in tales of you and you're familiar with that game.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i'm going to give you lots of space for today and day 3 if we're both alive by then

[SMP]

SMP who would you like to see lynched today?

I have a neighborhood based lynch that I would like, but revealing my neighborhood today would be a bad idea.

Other than that, I'm torn between a few.

Lynx would be a safe lynch, but if I vote for him I might as well be voting for myself. We both have practically the same cases against us, and anything I could bring up against him could easily be brought up against me just as easily.

ABR seems to be another prime candidate, but I don't necessarily think he's scum. Just based on his roles I'm leaning more towards him being some sort of 3rd party. He's a double voter with a pseudo every other night vig kill. I imagine the double vote is to help get on wagons easier, which would activate the vig kill every other night. That just doesn't sound town to me, but playing off of roles in a large game like this doesn't sound like a great idea.

Orci, Ceph or ffer, are you guys still called "Black Hole" after you split off?

I still don't trust Cabd's claim, but that isn't going to go anywhere today. Brian I'm lumping with town. I'm good with his recent posts and if Cabd is scum that doesn't mean Brian is also.

wgeurts has been acting oddly all game, with his want to mass flavor claim and complete acceptance of Cabd's claim, so he's leaning scum for me, but that's not going anywhere either.

I do think that someone on Lynx's wagon as of VC 2.8 is scum. Someone is getting on the wagon early to make it not look suspicious to get that extra star. I have to look over some more of their posts though to get a better idea.

So I would like my neighborhood scumread gone first, but I can't get a case on them yet. Then I would like one of Lynx's VC 2.8 voters to go, though I'm not sure who yet.

[Bookitty]

So I would like my neighborhood scumread gone first, but I can't get a case on them yet.

What has prevented you from making a case without revealing that they are in your neighbourhood?

[Honey bee]

That statement isn’t saying it’s a scum claim?

*sigh* ok I'm being annoying but wtf does var admitting that his claim was dumb have anything to do with how you can be confident it was a scum slip!? I keep rereading this and I have no idea what else you could mean when you responded to my question this way.

Lean Town:
Konowa
Lean Scum:
Flubbernugget
Notscience

explain these.

Also going into more depth into your gogurt read would be cool as I think you missed some of the controversy in this thread.

About Lynx: I've been getting that noob feeling I'm getting which I often end up interpreting as scummy so I'm starting to have hesitance about him. My meta search of him didn't help, as I don't get a similar feeling to either of his completed games (I feel like he has a complete lack of focus that his other games didn't have). I'm trying to make of what his reactions are, but I haven't found what I'm looking for in his meta. I still don't like the way his suspicions have been going, and I'm getting skeptical that joining bandwagons for stars is fine and dandy.

Your SMP observations are kinda where my inarticulate head was at last night. But, after some sleep and coffee, I'm questioning this mostly because I'm thinking about my scum play and I don't think I would go up against an investigation result I knew to be true because the player investigated wasn't on my team. It feels slightly more like the kind of push that a paranoid townie would make.

I played with scum-SMP in a recent mini game. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=46298

It doesn't feel the same. When I factor in time and additional experience, I'm left with a pretty weak-ish "maybe".

I guess it fits more with the my type of gameplay? I've doubted cops whether it was true or false what they were saying just to keep the wifom going in the thread and to keep my options more open. Not mafia did it in a game I played recently too. I can maybe see the paranoid townie personality but it doesn't feel like he's wanting to develop it in the way I think someone entertaining conspiracy theories would.

I looked through that iso, but I am only half seeing what your saying. He took a few stances there, but other posts feel similar to here (mainly the questions which didn't seem to have any conclusion). It's also fairly short. I'll take a look at his other games in a bit.