Micro 407: Jurassic Park Mafia - Game Over

[fferyllt]

I'm developing an intense dislike for you and for this game.

[fferyllt]

aa9 refused to say if I'd be successful in self-targeting and wished me luck.

which is what I expected.

mathdino given all the ways your plan could fail, are you going to continue to push it?

[Mathdino]

Some possibilities are so out there that they're unlikely to be considered by anyone, even at LyLo.

Why NOT confirm them to be untrue? If they are true, we lose anyway.

Edit: List the ways my plan could fail. I can't really push the tracker/watcher test anymore since neither of you have any motivation to go through with it if the other doesn't.

[fferyllt]

I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN SUCCESSFULLY SELF-TARGET.

Why would I choose an action that might fail because of the way the game designed over an action that might find scum?

[Mathdino]

Uh, the first 2 lines had to do with my voting you, not with the tracker/watcher tests.

[fferyllt]

This is ridiculous.

I'm taking a break.

Good luck with your damn vote test.

It doesn't matter whether you're town, you're playing for a scum win.

[Mathdino]

Do you and Scripten honestly see any chance of Pine/BBT?

Think about it, fferyllt. How suspicious would it look to me if BBT gets lynched and suddenly you're forced to whip up a case on Pine? Knowing myself, I'd be lynching you tomorrow.

Scripten, if he's alive, is practically guaranteed to vote you unless some intense scumslip happens.

Pine is obviously fighting any mention of Pine/BBT.

I'm doing this because based on everyone's thoughts about that pairing, they are going to win if it's true. Had you not given me the inclination that you're betting everything on BBT not getting lynched, I'd have kept both scum pairings in mind. Had Scripten given any indication he'd consider Pine/BBT, I'd have left that open.
But as it is, we're better off ruling this out because A. we're fucked if not, and B. I've spent the entire day waffling over which one of you two it is, and I don't feel like continuing that.

[Scripten]

Fferyllt, something came up while I was doing meta on you. You said that, for one of your scum games, you won because a player misread your fatalistic mindset as a towntell when it was really a scumtell. Considering you've reused that wording here a few times, I'm a little curious about that.

[fferyllt]

Fferyllt, something came up while I was doing meta on you. You said that, for one of your scum games, you won because a player misread your fatalistic mindset as a towntell when it was really a scumtell. Considering you've reused that wording here a few times, I'm a little curious about that.

It's like everything. it's in the context of the game. I can give you links to games/game days where I was fatalistic town, fatalistic scum and scum pretending (or playing up genuine) fatalism and let you draw your own conclusions, if you like. Or I can tell you what I see as the difference in my play and let you/town wifom over whether I'm telling the truth and whether what I'm aware of is also something I can manipulate.

[Mathdino]

Honestly, Scripten, I wouldn't place too much faith in meta at this point. I'm sure every single one of us can manipulate our meta. I'd like to think I'm self-aware, Pine and fferyllt are experienced, and BBT, well, you already admitted he hates meta and manipulates it freely.

Just reread the game and come to your own conclusion. If you don't feel like doing that, do a few ISOs.

[fferyllt]

Mathdino, I'd tell you to imagine yourself a town watcher and think about what you would make of this game state and compare that to my own decisions and reactions. Even if you're town I think it would be wasted effort. If this is your town game you don't approach the game even remotely the way I do as a predominantly reads-based player.

[fferyllt]

Honestly, Scripten, I wouldn't place too much faith in meta at this point. I'm sure every single one of us can manipulate our meta. I'd like to think I'm self-aware, Pine and fferyllt are experienced, and BBT, well, you already admitted he hates meta and manipulates it freely.

Just reread the game and come to your own conclusion. If you don't feel like doing that, do a few ISOs.

Yeah, definitely jump right in and try to short circuit another player's sorting efforts. That's good townie behavior.


Not.

[fferyllt]

I need to just stop interacting with you, math. I'm so pissed at this point that literally everything you say looks either scum motivated or so derptown that I'd have zero respect for your play this game if it turns out we're on the same team.

[Mathdino]

Scum have been given fakeclaims. Both your and Pine's claims are incredibly solid, right down to the flavour. It's not that far-fetched to think you were acting the fakeclaim out. After all, BBT was (speaking of course from my perspective).

I'll check FinnLaw and see if he has any watcher tells though.

Would you prefer me to approach the game the way you do? I find recklessness acceptable in some instances. This is one of them.

Edit: All I'm saying is metaing each of us seems unlikely to work past sorting out scum/towntells from playstyle. So I mean, checking a town game just to see what our playstyles are like, sure, cool. But trying to determine the differences between town and scumgames and applying that to this, mehhh.

Edit2: On the flip side, I see most of what you say as AtE. You still haven't answered my question on how much you see Pine/BBT as a possibility. If you don't, you should have nothing to worry about.

[Mathdino]

Currently reading up, but its nearly 1 in the morning here so off to bed soon.

But first, while I have found Scripten slightly suspicious his lynch isn't going to happen today and shouldn't happen anymore. I agree with what's been said about his wagon since his soft-claim. Taking a risk on his lynch is unnecessary as it could potentially result in the lynch of a town power role when instead we can look elsewhere to try to the other scum. Come day 2 Scripten can prove he's town and if he doesn't then we lynch him.

UNVOTE: Scripten

Scripten

- I have Scripten leaning scum. I have previously spoke of how I didn't like Scripten's early case on Beck. I thought he had unreasonable expectations of what he expected from Beck and thought his earlier vote and attack on Beck over the non-committal stuff was weak and him trying to push something as scummy when it wasn't.

While the flavour discussion was slightly confusing and one of the reasons I struggled to get involved, I didn't like Scripten's stance on the issue. As brought to light by others, I also didn't get why Scripten would find Grib's comments regarding flavor reasonable if it contradicted his own pm, surely it would make you a bit weary of it. But, Scripten has now soft-claimed, so he is on hold but hopefully he is being truthful about his claim come day 2.

These are his largest thoughts on Scripten, who I'd assume he'd watch because that's the reasonable thing to do. Not really interesting tbh.

[fferyllt]

Edit2: On the flip side, I see most of what you say as AtE. You still haven't answered my question on how much you see Pine/BBT as a possibility. If you don't, you should have nothing to worry about.

Everything in my day 3 ISO answers this.

I see pine/bbt as an extremely remote possibility.

You are voting town. In lylo. If you're scum, then I'm in no danger atm because the two players I think are town don't show any intent to vote me. If you're town, then I'm at eminent risk of being mislynched with a town loss as a result.

The fact that YOU don't consider that possibility makes you either terrible town or scum.

[fferyllt]

Currently reading up, but its nearly 1 in the morning here so off to bed soon.

But first, while I have found Scripten slightly suspicious his lynch isn't going to happen today and shouldn't happen anymore. I agree with what's been said about his wagon since his soft-claim. Taking a risk on his lynch is unnecessary as it could potentially result in the lynch of a town power role when instead we can look elsewhere to try to the other scum. Come day 2 Scripten can prove he's town and if he doesn't then we lynch him.

UNVOTE: Scripten

Scripten

- I have Scripten leaning scum. I have previously spoke of how I didn't like Scripten's early case on Beck. I thought he had unreasonable expectations of what he expected from Beck and thought his earlier vote and attack on Beck over the non-committal stuff was weak and him trying to push something as scummy when it wasn't.

While the flavour discussion was slightly confusing and one of the reasons I struggled to get involved, I didn't like Scripten's stance on the issue. As brought to light by others, I also didn't get why Scripten would find Grib's comments regarding flavor reasonable if it contradicted his own pm, surely it would make you a bit weary of it. But, Scripten has now soft-claimed, so he is on hold but hopefully he is being truthful about his claim come day 2.

These are his largest thoughts on Scripten, who I'd assume he'd watch because that's the reasonable thing to do. Not really interesting tbh.

He never got a chance to watch ANYBODY.

I watched Scripten because I thought that there was a good chance he'd be targeted by scum on night 1.

There's a rabbit hole here that I'm not really interested in exploring today. If I live and the game continues, I'll probably discuss it with him in the neighborhood tonight and in the game thread tomorrow.

[Mathdino]

Alright, fferyllt, let's flip this around. Put yourself in my shoes. I know for a fact that BBT is scum. I've been trying to convince you and Scripten all day that Pine/BBT is a definite possibility and at times during the day, even the likely possibility. Trying to convince you that the game isn't solved once BBT is lynched. What do you expect me to think?

I understand that you look for ways for people to be town. But when that gets to the point of not even considering possible scumteams, and

thinking it's more likely that

Scripten

is scum over BBT

, I'm gonna have a few issues.

Again, the main reason I'm doing this, and the main reason I'm currently zeroing in on you as scum is because of that unwillingness to see Pine/BBT. We have similar perspectives in that we both have someone as 'confirmed' scum, and then a partner to choose from. Yet you've blinded yourself and made the game far more black and white than you advertise, while I, up until this point, have been considering and weighing both equally.

Edit: No I know. But I'd expect him to have been planning to watch Scripten at that point in time.
I don't see anything in his ISO that points toward or against him being a watcher, tbh.

[Mathdino]

EBWOP: thinking it's more likely that Scripten is scum over Pine/BBT

[fferyllt]

Nothing you have said today leads to you knowing for a fact that BBT is scum. Unless you're scum with him.

[Mathdino]

You did read my opening posts for the day, correct?

We agree that a tracker/watcher/neighbourizer would be insanely OP, correct?

We also agree that a lone neighbourizer against the scum would be insanely imbalanced, correct?

I predicted there'd be a PR between you and Pine. Therefore, you can't both be scum like Grib and I thought D2.

Therefore, BBT must be scum.

[Mathdino]

Also thinking I'm possibly scum with BBT? Really?

[Mathdino]

I didn't hammer Pine. That alone makes me not scum with BBT.

[fferyllt]

You did read my opening posts for the day, correct?

We agree that a tracker/watcher/neighbourizer would be insanely OP, correct?

We also agree that a lone neighbourizer against the scum would be insanely imbalanced, correct?

I predicted there'd be a PR between you and Pine. Therefore, you can't both be scum like Grib and I thought D2.

Therefore, BBT must be scum.

I saw that, and I thought there were some potential points of agreement.

I'm not being very good at biting back insults at this point.

[fferyllt]

I didn't hammer Pine. That alone makes me not scum with BBT.

NEITHER DID I.