Open 579: Pick Your (Chocolate) Power -- Game Over

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE: whoever

VOTE: Flubbernugget
"genuinely fucking pissed"
The 'genuinely' isn't really necessary if you're pissed, ya know.

this was a really odd rvs vote
dino what's going on

this is town

[droog]

So, my opinion in terms of numbers:

1. Scum are probably not going to double up so we can assume that there is one scum per number.

2. Aside from that number choices are going to be pretty WIFOMy and player dependent.

And

Vote: Flubbernugget

The anger feels fake to me.

I wouldn't put it past clever scum to double up and have the 3rd scum pick a separate number. It might be something I'd do out of audacity. Agree on everything else though.

i bolded the part of hayate's comment dino disagrees with
something about that really doest justify 'agree on everything else'
also, depending on how dino chooses to reinvent the past

was that earlier flubber vote serious?
id be really curious as to why/not

[Mathdino]

^this is also town

Yes that vote was serious, haha. Continued to be serious until Amy vote. Idk who my random vote was.

[droog]

hayate put a lot of effort into her early posts
bit aggressive on the question front in rvs

but for now im interpreting that as town

[droog]

ebowp

dino you cant keep tagging suspicions on you as town-motivated
it only works the first time

[Mathdino]

Didn't you agree effort isn't indicative of alignment? It's why I couldn't read Hayate early on. While I enjoyed his playstyle and talking to him, it was overall pretty null.

And I was joking, referencing 549.

[insanity018]

Votecount 1.13

Siveure DtTrikyp

(5): Alchemist21, Ankamius, davesaz, Venrob, wgeurts

Alchemist21

(3): farside22, Mathdino, Siveure DtTrikyp

Aneninen

(2): Amy Farrah Fowler, droog

wgeurts

(1): Flubbernugget

Flubbernugget

(1): TheAdrienC

Not Voting

(2): Aneninen, Formerfish

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2014-12-07 08:00:00)

Aneninen is LA
Venrob is V/LA until December 8

[droog]

Also, sheeping math

VOTE: amy farrah fowler

siv and dino arent both scum

[Mathdino]

548, whoops.

[droog]

Druuge, 8, post-editing a

random vote is just like la wow!

Far Side of the Moon asked the same in 16.
Druuge, 20, Romitelli's vote is

pretty much null

, trust me, he has damm good reasons for that. ^_^
MathDino's 30: Vigilante is

not essentially scum-role.

The other three roles are scummy indeed. Also, see my answer for Amy's post below!
I think you've misread the previous games, MathDino, in 32.
Hayate's analysis in 34 seems to be good about the past games. I agree:

it's unlikely that they went for doubling a number.

I can add another game which was abandoned: The scums picked Vigilante, Tracker (instead of Jailkeeper) and ? (the third scum was the last player in the draft.)
Amy, 40 –

it's strange that you tried to explain the town-benefit

of those roles and you didn't even mentioned the possibility that a town might choose a role just to f-ck the scums. That's also possible.
Mathdino, 41,

you're wrong about a Vig.

Even if the town decides whom to shoot, the scums can still Roleblock/Jail the Vig and poof, the whole use of that PR is gone.
Amy, 48, and that was off-phased about scums picking numbers. That topic had been discussed ages ago and you posted since that part without mentioning it.

this post looks a lot more impressive than it is

bolded and underlined

hard comments

bolded

soft comments

the only hard comments are about setup
everything else is really soft
i.e. 'pretty much null'

[davesaz]

I wouldn't put it past clever scum to double up and have the 3rd scum pick a separate number. It might be something I'd do out of audacity. Agree on everything else though.

I will point out that this scenario is exactly what I used to say that 375 (?) shouldn't be used to rule people out as possible scum.

pedit: droog, it doesn't work as well when you go post by post like that. Especially with the really early stuff. This would give you a nice post count but not necessarily town points.

[droog]

Alchemystique, 51, let's assume that you're saying the truth. According to the site rules I'm not explaining why. Your vote in 62 – why exactly?
Venrob, 52, you're wrong about those semi-high numbers.

{hard comment about setup}

Don't you remember our abandoned game? Most of the players chose far-out numbers and there were only five players who doubled/multipled up. Right now I have the same draft with 1 as I had there with 14.
Farpointside, 55, agreed, a Day1 Vigshot is not too good

[hard comment about setup]

unless someone does something blatantly scummy and avoids lynch or there's a player who's detrimental to the game. (Though I, personally, disagree with the latter one for the same reason as I disagree with Policy Lynches.)
MathDino, 63, why is Druuge incredibly town? Why are 37 and 61 so town?
Amy, 65 so, you dislike discussing theories and you've still done that. Hmmmmmm... and in 67 I think you misrepresented Venrob.

[soft comment about the game=]

Siveure DitTrikijp, 77 oh finally, someone tries to stop that rubbish speculation about the Vigs and I-don't-remember-what's. Good sheep, see below!

{no clue}

MathDino, 85, good idea, stop that discussion. (And if anyone wonders why I discussed about the possible roles in that abandoned game, (1) something important was revealed and (2) I was a Neighbourizer there.)

{more setup blah blah}

Davesaz, 86, I understand your concerns, but Feliz (our kitty) arrived to our place 3 weeks ago or so, that'swhy you won't find that joke in earlier games. Post-edit: I can see that you realized the same thing in 96.

{: 3 }

By the way, do you want a trust tell? Here it comes!
Spoiler:

Farside, 92, what was the point of that post? I mean, the "whom would you lynch if you were a Vengeful" thing.

{wishy wishy wishy washy]

You Have Been Pigeoned!Hint: you can see this pigeon ONLY IF I'm town, OR if I'm scum. Trust me, this tell works all the time![/img]Farside, 92, what was the point of that post? I mean, the "whom would you lynch if you were a Vengeful" thing.

round 2

[Mathdino]

Statements about setup are more objective arguments, while statements about alignment and scumhunting are far more objective. I would expect the latter to be far softer and more qualified when coming from a more logically oriented player (like meeee).

@davesaz: True, but history shows that scum haven't done that.
Also, I think a pretty good explanation is the fact that everyone loves PRs, and few people like VTs. PRs are treated as more valuable than they are, IMO, which creates even more motivation for scum to try to go for them instead of WIFOMing everyone.

[Mathdino]

Goddammit.

EBWOP: far more subjective

[droog]

Conclusion. Amy is most probably scum. She speculates about "what would be useful for the scum?" things all the time, especially during that Vigilante/Vengeful/Idunnowhat part of the chat. Other reasons are shown in my catch-up.

ewwwwwwwwwww
was this really the basis for the amy case
did i really sheep this
this is such a shallow basis for that vote

do i even call this a strong statement or a hard statement?
what does 'most probably scum' mean

[droog]

Statements about setup are more objective arguments, while statements about alignment and scumhunting are far more objective.

{assuming this is a typo or else your upoint falls completely)

i could come up with some shitty example about how wrong this is
like, love is subjective and economics is objective
therefore, its natural to have stronger opinions on economics than love, right?
but , uh

why does anem get a pass dino

[droog]

anem, i like your style and i like your amy case
until dino does something that pings me more i'm going to sheep it

VOTE: amy fowler
now that i understand it i especially agree with you re: #40

im disagreeing with myself now
i can kind of see some scummy things about amy but
that case was really weak

[droog]

On the 'helpful townie' thing, I basically need to be involved and responding to people to stay on top of it. Side effect of extraversion. If I DON'T respond to people constantly and get input, I'm liable to forget things.

I was asking if your response to me was intended to be "helpful". I think your later reply was a "no" to this question.

Pedit: I have seen scum play which was blatantly pro-town on other sites, and have scum read people for doing it here. I was even correct on this point in the first newbie game I replaced into, but didn't follow through on it strongly enough. So "look at all the town stuff I'm doing" can indeed be scummy.

Oh, look, I'm agreeing with someone. The horror!

this post looks really town-motivated

[droog]

Now, I'm not reading based on a phrase. But this got me to thinking. wgeurts in that game was an extreme tunneler, his confidence in his scumreads being off the charts. Town wgeurts, on the other hand, I've seen as far more careful, uses qualifiers, fencesits a bit and uses slightly wishy-washy wording. I don't like this. I'll get back on the Amy wagon if necessary but I think my vote's better served here.

UNVOTE: Amy
VOTE: wgeurts

Also, the above post is nowhere near strong enough or inconsistent with town to warrant that level of confidence.

I did a quick search, Amy's not experienced, let's take that off the table.

I understand your doubt on the wgeurts thing, so I'll just go ahead and page

Alchemist

droog

uote]

no
i dont agree with your meta but wont go into it
wgeurts was a noob then and now he's not
his play is getting bebtter
its not worth comprang

...

i think that exercise had as much value
as when my high school librarians tried to teach us about search engins

[Mathdino]

Statements about setup are more objective arguments, while statements about alignment and scumhunting are far more objective.

{assuming this is a typo or else your upoint falls completely)

i could come up with some shitty example about how wrong this is
like, love is subjective and economics is objective
therefore, its natural to have stronger opinions on economics than love, right?
but , uh

why does anem get a pass dino

No, it's not natural.

But Aneninanonuneninonymous, like me, is clearly a more logical/analysis oriented player. So more objective things having to do with facts and probabilities are, speaking for myself, I'm more likely to have more

convicted

thoughts on.

Also love and economics are both objective subjects if we talk about them as topics. My personal love or feelings, I'm going to be much less convicted about because I'm not as emotional as I'd like.

[farside22]

Also, sheeping math

VOTE: amy farrah fowler

siv and dino arent both scum

When have you seen scum sheep scum?

[droog]

Spoiler: Venrob

Ok, so i've done a bit of a skim read so far. I am SOOO pissed and surprised that 4 got the top pick. I mean 1235 all got doubled up, but 4 of all numbers got top.... 4 is always the one that everyone chooses.

Given I hav e a history with this setup... and not a good one... I just hope this game doesn't go to shit for town like it always does.

For reference purposes, Open 472: Town of Lottery Addicts is the only game i have completed of this setup. I also failed to mod it once, and played a game which got abandoned once. Bad luck. In Open 472, I was one of the 4 people who picked the number 4- and had second to last place. I still didn't end up VT though- I got vengeful. But town didn't believe my roleclaim, and believed scum at lylo.... So hopefully I don't make it to lylo, because whenever I do town loses. Unless I become confirmed town before lylo, then I'm fine with living

Anyway, for rvs vote.... why not VOTE: Siveure DtTrikyp


Also for number theory, I have found that picking a semi-high number generally results in high draft order, because everyone doubles up below you. That is why I picked a high number, and I presume same goes for siv.

Either way, I hope this game doesn't go to shit because of me like every game I play does.

No, I'm saying that if the town decides to lynch me even though I am town, I'd rather it not be at LYLO.

Reads? Not really. I don't get reads this early into Day 1. If you wish to confirm that, you can check out my other games- that's what I pretty much always say regardless of alignment.
And if I seem defensive, please note my 1 town win and 6 town losses.

I have played scum, 2 wins 3 losses as scum compared to 1 win 6 losses as town. My first game here was a scum game, and it got to lylo (2 scum 3 town.) The only reason I won is that one of the townies had a scum read on the other 2 and a town read on me and my partner. If not for that, I would have been lynched really early. I think everyone was giving me benefit of the noob considering it was my first game on-site. I played really badly... but still won.

In my other game i won as scum, I got dayvigged on day 1. My partner, solo, went on to win the game.

So I don't really have any great scum accomplishments. And my 1 town win was a masons and mafia setup, which honestly seems easy to win for town considering the mafia kept killing themselves XD

So I don't really have a good history, everyone always reads me as scum.

If you want to look for yourself, all completed games are on my wiki.

UNVOTE:
Still had an rvs vote out.

OK, so i've caught up a bit... and honestly the only thing I'm getting as far as reads is mathdino seems townie to me. I don't have the time right now to make a big post or anysuch or to read into peoples posts and analyze, but I will be back later today for a better read of the game. Just got up, haven't even had breakfast yet but wanted to make a post while I had a minute.

So we have:
Games go to shit when you're in them
Everyone reads you scum
You have a terrible record
Don't have time right now

We're gonna need to see a lot more than a bunch of AtE, or this is going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

really like this
dave criticizes other players without snarky accusations
or subtle jabs at how they're scummy for saying stupdi shit

town read on dave

[farside22]

Droog: your point about the soft and hard points read as a personality issue.

[droog]

Your readlist in 206 is WTF?! It looks as if you had chosen three players randomly so as to post something about them.

That is in fact what Amy did
She admitted to giving reads on the players then posting
While she had the time

this is still scummy on anem's part
it never got explaind right

[droog]

Okay. The real reason my wgeurts vote is scummy is because the amy unvote only happened then. From like #170 to my unvote was basically this

i was going to unvote amy because i dont have a strong scumread there
then i realized i dont have any stronger scumreads

And yeah, my townread on dave is because he hasn't done any obvious town stuff. He has very little content, but he is not lurking at all. Or maybe it's the opposite, that he's lurking but still producing some content? Idk. It's kinda gut, and kindof the terms I'm using being so ill-defined.

Pedit: aw noooo... Don't tell me that I said something I thought was innocuous but the whole game takes as a scumslip again. Yuck.

thhis post is exactly the kind of tortured logic
only a townie could come up with