Matrix6 and the Newbie Queue

[Shadowmod]

Haven't really read most of this thread, but just to address the issues raised in the OP:

Newbies can drag out more than necessary, which can easily make it a bad experience for players, which is bad. Why does a Newbie have deadlines that would also be fitting for a thme game? Newbies are

not

there to be a typical MS.net game, per se, but they are meant as a bridge to easy people (who most likely have other, generally quicker paced, mafia experience elsewhere - I doubt many people land here because they googled mafia out of interest for actual Italian organized crime syndicates) over to this site. So why not just use a one week compromise deadline for that.

As for the setup - when I joined this site, I hated the newbie setup (still F11 back then), found it boring. I'd have been much more hooked by something as Matrix6 with its many intricate complexities - I enjoyed my second game, a rolemadness mini, a lot more ; but I am probably an outlier in that regard, so do not listen to me.
Having to understand one "screwy" (i.e. arbitrary) interaction should not really overstrain any one, though.
Maybe having two Newbies with two different setups in the queue, similar to how the other queues do it already, would be a solution... Or just more complexity for newbies... But I am actually not sure if we aren't just discussing how much things should get dumbed down and whom for we'd do that, my instincitve reaction to this kind of discussion is to assume a feeling of insulted intellect on the part of a newbie when faced with an overly basic setup because the established people on this site would not dare put more past them, but then I am usually wrong about these kind of assumptions as well...

I don't really see the problem with the 1-game restriction on first newbies - it does not prevent any one from signing up for other game types as well, with the possible exception that a mod might not accept players without site experience, but that, as far as I know, is not a general problem.

The slow newbie queue - and the long time span from sigining up to any first game here on site, be it a newbie or not, is major problem in retaining interested site visitors, especially when seen in the context of social media and smartphones. So here is where some easily available short-term solution like a chat mafia (--> the other thread...) would come in handy.

[Shadowmod]

After further dicussion it also became clear that, even though they'd all read the wiki page, nobody really got the Roleblocker vs Jailkeeper resolution (which suggests it may be unintuitive) and the Bulletproof claiming as Doctor scenario was bewildering.

I don't think Newbies need to know those things anyway. They're edge cases.

When you say 2x3, Mina, do you mean a set-up where you pick one of two rows or one of three columns? I don't see how you can make that work without giving the rows inherently more town power.

In the simple doc/cop scenarios of old days every one probably had a pretty clear grip on what to do immediately - with the result of a one-dimensional, stereotypical gameplay. In Matrix6, you certtainly can get by pretty well without understanding all the intricancies, but at least their is room for more interesting, smart and creative plays, if one likes that sort of thing. Suboptimal and even outright stupid or trollish claims have always happened and will always keep happening, no matter the setup.

Maybe chaging the Matrix representation (mostly neat, but impractical for the purpose) back to a simple list of setups will make it easier to grasp the concept.

[Shadowmod]

I really think it's a good idea to make the IC confirmed town with the chance of having a protective role. I don't see how you can teach newbies what you think is scummy if you have to push town at the same time, unless you're a shitty scumhunter, in which case you shouldn't be teaching newbies anyway.

I already said this in the let's-revolutionize-mafiascum thread, but adding direct links to the signup threads in the corresponding forum descriptions would help a great deal. Also, the guide to signing up on the main page can be replaced with a link to the sign-up thread saying "respond with '/in' to this thread to sign up for your first game".

You'd also need a high chance of the IC to be BP or having a doc/jk in the setup, or mafia will just do what they like to do anyway: Snipe the IC in N1.
And even then, you basically turn the game into a follow the IC, which is boring, and not how mafia should be played. And innocent child is a pretty dulll role in general, for all the same reasons...

[Shadowmod]

Spoiler:

I really think it's a good idea to make the IC confirmed town with the chance of having a protective role. I don't see how you can teach newbies what you think is scummy if you have to push town at the same time, unless you're a shitty scumhunter, in which case you shouldn't be teaching newbies anyway.

I already said this in the let's-revolutionize-mafiascum thread, but adding direct links to the signup threads in the corresponding forum descriptions would help a great deal. Also, the guide to signing up on the main page can be replaced with a link to the sign-up thread saying "respond with '/in' to this thread to sign up for your first game".

You'd also need a high chance of the IC to be BP or having a doc/jk in the setup, or mafia will just do what they like to do anyway: Snipe the IC in N1.
And even then, you basically turn the game into a follow the IC, which is boring, and not how mafia should be played. And innocent child is a pretty dulll role in general, for all the same reasons...

Not with a mafia doc and a town doc who cancel each other out if targeting the same player it isn't.

It also isn't a standard role/mechanic, by any means...

	A	B	C
1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
3	Town 2-shot Vigilante	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker

Might be hilarious. Would implement all common roles minus SK and Godfather.

Track + vig vs. no PR mafia? Hilarious indeed!

	A	B	C
1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
3	1-shot Bulletproof Serial Killer	Mafia Doctor	Town Tracker

Nvm, do this one.

I don't think an SK in a designated neqbie setup will find much approval.

[Shadowmod]

(I'm pretty adamantly against assuming that newbies would prefer one-week deadlines and enforcing those when the rest of the site doesn't use them, though.)

The basic problem is that any stance claiming that "newbies (in general) would prefer this or that" is just either very arrogant ot just plain naïve - because newbies are humans, too, and as such very different. just like any one else. I daresay there simply is no such thing as a "one size fits all" newbie setup. Luckily playing newbie games is optional, even for newbies.
On that basis, it's probably fair to assume, though, that newbie setupos should remain fairly basic/simple - if you want more, there are other queues for that.