Thanks, borker!
All the people complaining about the matrix presentation: I changed the OP like a week ago at aphix's suggestion to list the individual setups. The matrix is still there as a visual aid (and also for people who hate change). Game mods are free to list all the setups in their rulesets beneath the matrix as well.
Any other suggestions for changes to the newbie queue OP would be helpful, by the way, since I want to streamline it more.
In post 57, Aeronaut wrote:What if you just have one less newbie and one more SE per game? That way, you help reduce the problem of lack of newbies, aaaand you get one more person who sort of knows what's actually going on to keep the game moving, and to help there be less of those long stretches of nothing that happens in most newbie games.
When I considered adding a second IC to a game, it was pointed out that this would make the games <50% newbies. I guess you could argue that 1) newbie games should primarily serve newbies, and 2) psychologically, there's a difference between most of the players being new like you and being in the minority (it already sucks that some newbie games wind up being all experienced players by the end). Also, in defence of newbies, quite a few of those who stick it out are really eager and engaged with the game.
TBH, I really don't think it'll make a huge difference either way. Most of the rules (whether we have 4-6 newbies, 2-4 SEs, 1-2 ICs, SEs who've played two games or three games, ICs who've played five games or six games, experience in the Road to Rome or out of the Road to Rome) are pretty arbitrary, and seem to exist more for the sake of
making my life more difficult
consistency. I'm toying with reverting to two ICs, but that might not be sustainable longterm.
In post 66, Bicephalous Bob wrote:I really think it's a good idea to make the IC confirmed town with the chance of having a protective role. I don't see how you can teach newbies what you think is scummy if you have to push town at the same time, unless you're a shitty scumhunter, in which case you shouldn't be teaching newbies anyway.
I'm hesitant to do this mostly because of the decade-long history of ICs who can be either alignment. Also, I kind of think the current setup teaches the "you can't trust ANYONE!" aspect of the game well. Would like to hear from people who've IC'd a lot if they have a problem compartmentalizing as scum. But most of them make it very clear in their standard IC posts that what they say as an IC is very different from what they say as a player.
I already said this in the let's-revolutionize-mafiascum thread, but adding direct links to the signup threads in the corresponding forum descriptions would help a great deal.
+1 to this.
In post 74, Bicephalous Bob wrote:What is the main goal of newbies? If it's to introduce players to the mechanics and the most common roles, then Matrix6 is absolutely fine and the relative complexity is a necessary evil. If it's to provide a simple playground where newbies can learn to scumhunt, it isn't that suitable.
Although I'm starting to think exposure to a wide variety of roles (and attractiveness to SEs/ICs/mods) are advantages, from what I remember as a casual observer...people basically just argued for a hundred pages on how to make the most balanced newbie set-up possible, and finally settled on something really complicated. The "introduction to mechanics" part was just a coincidence.
Mind you, the kids will probably be all right no matter what. I mean, my first Mafia game had no reveals upon death, a town necromancer, only one Mafia goon among thirteen players, and a secret cult recruiter. My first two games on mafiascum were awfully modded, catastrophically unbalanced fiascos. That didn't turn me off, because I didn't know any better then.