Mini 1632 - Zar's Holiday Bash - Mardi Gras Showdown - Over!

[silverspawn]

this took forever... I was gameless for almost two weeks. it was horrible.

vote: Madonna

because I don't like Madonna.

is there a way to bold in this forum without using the full reply function and opening another window? that seems awfully slow.

[silverspawn]

test

[silverspawn]

ah yes adding the tags manually works

vote: Garmr

because you're voting for me.

[silverspawn]

just reread day one.

vote: T S A

for excessive lurking

[silverspawn]

make that

vote: Howl

[silverspawn]

his a brony dun dun dun. Lol

*he's

[silverspawn]

to be fair I despise the term brony, but I'll still

vote: Garmr

for voting me for that reason

[silverspawn]

w-w-w-wagon

[silverspawn]

overreacting is a scum tell

vote: vincero

[silverspawn]

this took forever... I was gameless for almost two weeks. it was horrible.

link 2 your last game plz

my last two finished games (don't know which finished later) were this one and this one.

[silverspawn]

And Reinoe is town.

OMFG WHITE KNIGHTING I still like vincero better though

[silverspawn]

*silverspawn, why have you changed your vote 6 times in two pages?

Like are those people scumreads for you are are you just arbitrarily voting?

Oh, is that not something you do on this forum? throwing with votes around in the beginning?

and, obviously none of them was serious.

[silverspawn]

RVS has been over for a bit IMO. I just don't see the point of having six RVS votes.

being afraid of voting is a scummy.

[silverspawn]

This post, in the GUILDS MAFIA GAME,where you acknowledge being self aware of your play. This means that it'll be generally difficult to try and get any metagame reads off him. Also that game had a lot of themed mechanics that wouldn't translate well to this particular style of game (mini normal).
......
I just finished day one of the GUILDS MAFIA GAME since that's how long silverspawn lasted in the game. I also read the ending scene to see who was the scum in the end.

silverspawn played scummy as hell that game but always justified it with comments like, "I'm adjusting my meta, your argument is false that my play is scummy because I'm town" and those sorts of things.

Normally I'd point out things that are similar and things that are different but since silver already admitted that he changes his play and is still learning/adjusting there's no point.

Questions for silverspawn...
1)What did you learn about that game?

2)Do you still believe that it's fine to policy lynch lurkers considering that the scum in that game was relatively active?

Haven't followed the other link yet.

what happened in guilds mafia wasn't so much that I was genuinely trying to justify how I was playing, it was rather that I had started with an "I won't cooperate day 1" attitude and backing off would be a massive scum tell, because people know that I play more careful as scum. I didn't plan to go through with it to that extent, but I got more or less forced to. And the guy who quickhammered me - who was the only scum in that game - got lynched more or less for that, so I can't even really say that it was bad in retrospect.

as far as lurkers go, yes I am for lynching lurkers. your 2) is a very weird question, because a) that's just one game, I'd certainly hope that I don't change my opinion based on

one

game, and b) a policy lynch is, by definition, not based on scum reads. The fact that the guy you want to policy lynch is town does not contradict the idea of a policy lynch.

by the way, there was a reason why I put that link in second and the other one first, as it's much closer to how I normally play. but I do like to experiment.

[silverspawn]

I do think it's cool that you're doing these rereads though

[silverspawn]

and I won't be lynched today either so yeah lol.

why not?

[silverspawn]

I appear twice in the vote count. I'm pretty sure that's a mistake.

~ It has been corrected in the count. Thanks for pointing it out (trying to post a count from an iPhone sucks!).~ Zar

[silverspawn]

Are you saying that Aero is scummy for being afraid to vote?

No, what I meant with that quote were my RVS quotes.

[silverspawn]

ehh *votes

[silverspawn]

This post irks me.

your spelling irks me. it's silverspawn. there is no uppercase letter.

[silverspawn]

I agree with Madonna (urg) though of course my wagon is a bad one to push.

It's because I'm town.

[silverspawn]

[quote="In post 113, Garmr"][/quote]

I approve of the newbie status. Do I get a free pass for day 1?

[silverspawn]

well looks like you can't quote empty posts.

[silverspawn]

2 mislynches in several years is impressive. does that mean you get found out easily if you're scum, or do you just win every game as scum because you never get lynched?

[silverspawn]

posting to avoid prod. will read and comment tomorrow

[silverspawn]

Okay, so

silverspawn is

painting

scumhunting by numbers. He's obviously picked up some standard scumtells and lingo and is trying to apply that. That's increasingly scummy with experience, but as a newb it's basically null.

I wasn't particularly serious with any of my votes so far, maybe that wasn't clear. I don't really give much credit in standard scum tells in general, I think they're far less useful than meta reads. Maybe that's because the community I'm coming from is a lot smaller, so everyone pretty much knows everyone. Though I do think that overexplaining votes is one of the better general scum tells.

And to answer the question about how new I am: I finished about ~8 games, all on the side I linked.

About alts: well without having much context I dislike the idea, I probably just wouldn't allow alts period, why allow people to cloud their meta in such a cheap way. So, I agree with kuribo there. I also think the approach of being aggressive to cause reaction makes a lot of sense. As scum, you have to pretend constantly, pretending is easiest if you're calm. If a situation gets out of hand and people start getting emotional, that's good for town. He did step out of line as he clearly got personal, but the approach is good.

About the serrapaladin/reinoe debate: I really disagree with the case on reinoe. What he did seemed genuine; I mentioned that I had played before, he asked me for a link, I gave two links, why not read them. This may not be the most efficient way to scum hunt, but it's certainly not horrible. I guess the idea is that he's actively lurking, but eh.

[silverspawn]

About reads; I don't really have strong reads, I'm used to doing cases based on meta, which I can't really do here. I did think most of serrapaladin's points were either weak or safe, so scum points for that. reinoe feels genuine, so town read there. Garmr's vote was pretty awful, but it's honestly hard to imagine that an experienced player does this as scum. most others are nullish

[silverspawn]

oh, and softclaims are stupid and anti town.

[silverspawn]

meta reads are bad and boring and detract from, you know, actually playing mafia. silverspawn, who do you think is scum? preferably, base your reads on things they've said in the thread rather than anything meta.

look, obviously you seem to think meta reads are silly and a distraction and don't actually qualify as real reads. That's cool, you can think that. But I happen to think pretty much the opposite, although less extreme. General tells are weak and not worth much, because different people play so differently. What is towny for someone can be a huge scumtell for someone else, and vice versa.

I kind of feel like silverspawn is just talking about stuff that he probably thinks as either alignment - I use meta, I don't like alts, soft-claims are stupid.
The only think there that seems specific to this game is his read on Serra, which he should probably be more detailed about.

This is true, but I don't have any strong reads atm. I really don't. Do you want me to fabricate reads in order to appear more towny? That would be lying. I'd prefer not to. You have very long days, I'll get more comfortable the more context I have for different players. Right now, if I had to assign scum % to every player in this game, it would all be between 20 and 30%.

Now about what's actually happening, do you guys think Garmr is the kind of player who makes all of this up as scum? He could have faked the self-hammer, and then faked his rage and fullclaim. How likely this is does of course depend on his meta, so whoever has played with him before should state his opinion.

The hider thing is silly. Look, some PR's are better targets for scum than VT's because they have dangerous powers, and some are worse targets because they are harder to kill. You say you softclaimed as hider to cause scum to shoot you so that they waste their NK. Okay, that's cool. Of course it doesn't guarantee to accomplish anything, and whether or not scum actually does shoot you just comes down to WIFOM, but I'm fine with using it as a strategy.

However, complaining about the fact that we picked up on your softclaim is just plain stupid. Of course we're gonna do that, we don't know that you're a hider. And it doesn't actually change anything, it's still WIFOM from scum's perspective. If you really wanted to do this strategy, you should have anticipated this reaction from us and react in a way that isn't full claiming. Then, in day 2, you should have come clean. On the other hand, if you're scum who planed all of it, then your actions make sense.

I'm not sure how sincere the rage is, I don't really get what in this game could have him get this upset, but again, I don't know him, people who do need to decide this.

[silverspawn]

unrelated of this game, is there a way to safe a link to this thread so that it always jumps to the latest unread post? otherwise I always have to search for it.

[silverspawn]

*to

[silverspawn]

I completely disagree with silverspawn that explaining votes is scummy. In fact, it is my opinion that not explaining votes is scummy. Why would you announce a conclusion without presenting the premises and connections and expect people to believe/sheep you?

Overexplaining votes is scummy for the same reason that overdefending is scummy. Scum fears pressure more than town does, scum feels the need to explain votes carefully more than town does. If every town was afraid of putting someone at L-X, we would never have wagons. I think this is true especially for new scum, if you're new you try to explain all of your votes carefully in order to appear reasonable, whereas town just doesn't care as much.

[silverspawn]

and

vote: serra

. Your arguments are weak and your reads look fabricated.

[silverspawn]

Why are you claiming VT?

[silverspawn]

when you say people often do it, does that mean they also do it with PR's? Is it not a real claim? Because if not, even if this is a thing in this forum, that doesn't make it any less stupid.

[silverspawn]

*if not = if it's not not a real claim = if it's a real claim

#double negative

[silverspawn]

really? replace? just because you got in an argument with someone? come on, stay in this game. try to get him lynched if you want.

[silverspawn]

I completely disagree with silverspawn that explaining votes is scummy. In fact, it is my opinion that not explaining votes is scummy. Why would you announce a conclusion without presenting the premises and connections and expect people to believe/sheep you?

Overexplaining votes is scummy for the same reason that overdefending is scummy. Scum fears pressure more than town does, scum feels the need to explain votes carefully more than town does. If every town was afraid of putting someone at L-X, we would never have wagons. I think this is true especially for new scum, if you're new you try to explain all of your votes carefully in order to appear reasonable, whereas town just doesn't care as much.

This is flawed because it opens up an avenue for scum to strongly pressure a town player without the town player being able to defend themselves against it without looking scummy for defending their position.

It could certainly have that effect if people start to consider it a strong scum tell, but that's just circular logic. It's not a reason not to apply it right now.

[silverspawn]

why not all lay in and give him a target?

Well, generally the problem with announcing hider targets is that it leads to an easy double kill for scum. Although in this case, it might not be such a bad thing, because he's so suspicious that if he's town, scum might even want to leave him alive for a mislynch anyway.

As for my vote, it's fine where it is.

[silverspawn]

What is your read on TSO?

null to slight scum.

[silverspawn]

TS

Why "slight scum"?

Because his posts seem to be short and don't leave much impact. Blending in is generally a slight scum tell.

[silverspawn]

I have no idea what you want to say with these compilation of posts, but I'll explain my opinion again real quick

there are general scum tells, but they're not worth as much as meta reads. That doesn't mean they're useless, just that they're not worth as much. I don't have any meta context, so they are all I have to go on.

My early votes weren't serious because they were RVS.

There is no contradiction or inconsistency in these three posts. You aren't making much sense; however I also thought you were defending an incredibly weak position in your fight against reinoe, so that's nothing new.

[silverspawn]

*

these

this

[silverspawn]

The case reinoe made is clearly strong, and I liked serra even before that. We should absolutely lynch him today.

[silverspawn]

@silver: what's strong about reinoe's case? Does any of it give any good suggestion of how my behaviour would be different as town.

No. Why should it do that? It explains why your behavior doesn't make sense as town, which is what a case should do. Making suggestions for better play is not a necessity.

[silverspawn]

avoid prod n stuff
I have nothing to say atm

[silverspawn]

the best justification will be you flipping scum

[silverspawn]

1) Why haven't you pressured any lurkers to be more active?

Because following a policy in a community where you're new is silly. things are different. with the 2 day prod thingy, you can't even

really

lurk. I know people who made like 2 posts in 6 real days.

2) Would you be fine with a lurker getting policy lynched if it also included yourself?

well I definitely wouldn't make exceptions for myself. I don't think I've been lurking though.

[silverspawn]

vote: serra

I can only empathize this

[silverspawn]

see, now you're doing the same he does. just putting an empty statement out there without explaining it, I hate that. Plus if you think I'm scummy, why don't you

vote for me?

[silverspawn]

what's with these claims. good god, stop it.

[silverspawn]

serra isn't just ignoring the reinoe case, he's generally ignoring stuff all the time. It's a pretty obnoxious playstyle.

[silverspawn]

Same here, high-five!!! I wish I had loaded up on a bunch of games.

you're welcome to come over to my site to play there if you want. although you'd have to cut the cursing entirely.

by the way, what exactly is the case on me?

[silverspawn]

Sigh. This game is turning into a nuisance. I'm more put off by all the BM than I expected. I never read a single fuck you in mafia before signing up for this game. And I don't like asking for a replacement, because the amount of replacing that's going on here is the other thing that bothers me, but whatever. I'm not motivated to do anything else than lurking, which wouldn't be good for anyone. So,

replace me please

, and sorry for that.

last words about the game, serra is making no sense, how can you not see that. I'm not even saying that he's scum, but his arguments are

weak

. Also don't lynch reinoe.