Mini 1633 ~ Non-normal Mafias Mafia OVER!!!

[tn5421]

top

[CooLDoG]

VOTE COUNT 1.2

Om of the Nom (1) ~ FuDuzn
tn5421 (0) ~
MTD (1) ~ Metal Sonic
ika (0) ~
Ghostlin (0) ~

Metal Sonic (2) ~ Paschendale, tn5421

Mathdino (0) ~
Flubbernugget (0) ~
FourTrouble (0) ~
FuDuzn (0) ~
Paschendale (1) ~ Flubbernugget
eyestott (0) ~
Zombehs (1) ~ Mathdino

It takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is: 17:00 (CST) Monday, January 19, 2015

Not Voting (8):Om of the Nom MTD ika Ghostlin Mathdino FourTrouble eyestott Zombehs

FINE! GAh. After the holidays we will go to 2 week days and 3 day nights. Happy? Good!

[tn5421]

I'm very happy, actually, thanks CooLDoG-sama

[FourTrouble]

flubber is def town

Why?

[FourTrouble]

Blocs never need to be explicitly mentioned to be formed, yet that is exactly what is happening based on the (apparently) flimsiest of reads.

How is that scummy?

[Paschendale]

you dont think his posts are awkward and trying to blend in?
because thats exactly what im getting from his iso
also the whole spiel about setup spec and then calling someone out for rolefishing doesnt sit right

Not seeing the awkward, just seeing brand new game where no one knows exactly what to say. But I agree about the setup spec stuff. It's a distraction from scumhunting. But, again, we're only a few pages in. Mathdino merits some suspicion, but not as much as you seem to think.

I have no idea what Sonic's anime questions are for and why the hell did he vote MTD?

TN is 100% right about Sonic looking like he's trying to force a townbloc. Vote stays for now.

I really don't think we're going to need that much of January in order to complete day 1. December, due to the holidays, is probably iffy either way, but we won't need more than 12 or 14 days in January.

[tn5421]

Blocs never need to be explicitly mentioned to be formed, yet that is exactly what is happening based on the (apparently) flimsiest of reads.

How is that scummy?

Forcing blocs to form early is the best way for scum to slip into the resulting townblocs. Therefore forcing one is scummy.

[Paschendale]

Actually, upon further review, Mathdino's setup spec looks perfectly legit. It was a conversation about Eye's roleclaim, and it makes a lot of sense. And then Dino cuts short further role speculation, which is good.

Townpoints for Mathdino, scumpoints for Om for misrepping the discussion. And some suspicion for all those reads that really aren't warranted this early, especially without any justification.

[FourTrouble]

That townbloc argument sucks.

[tn5421]

That townbloc argument sucks.

Then tell me how it sucks or stop commenting.

Shutting down discussion isn't cool either.

[tn5421]

Which I totally just did, oops. Don't just bleat on about how 'townbloc argument sucks'.

Make intelligent criticisms about it or pick another topic.

[FourTrouble]

How does forcing townblocs trick townies into thinking you're town?

[tn5421]

It disrupts the natural order of town cooperation, making it harder for town to figure out good reads.

At least, in my opinion. I haven't had a large enough sample of games to tell how well it works in reality.

[Mathdino]

Yeah I'm really not liking the townbloc stuff going on here, I'm beginning to grow confident there's 1 scum in that group.

Honestly I don't have many major suspects right now, Pasch rereading the game is townish (no, not cuz he's defending me), so I'll go ahead and

VOTE: Sonic

and see where that takes me.

[Zombehs]

Meh. Even a quick google search (not too familiar with some of the terms here) gets a link that basically says what TN has been saying.

[tn5421]

I linked it in 137

[tn5421]

Sorry, quoted in 137, but i posted it in 136

[FourTrouble]

The best move for scum is often pro-town (e.g. bussing when they don't have to). Of course, that blurs the line between pro-town and pro-scum moves. Forming townblocs blurs the line between pro-town and pro-scum, because you don't know if the player forming the townbloc is scum or town. That lack of knowledge doesn't mean the act of creating a townbloc is scummy -- it's null, unless you have independent evidence that the player forming the townbloc is town or scum, in which case the player is town or scum based on something other than the act of forming the townbloc. Point is, forming townblocs is null. Whether they end up having a pro-town or pro-scum effect depends on whether the player forming it is scum.

As for Mastin's "lecture," Mastin's point is more about probability of success or failure -- townblocs formed early fail more often than townblocs formed later; townblocs that form organically without trying succeed more often than townblocs that form consciously. The original lecture -- I looked into it -- was in response to the question, "What's the best way to form townblocs." The question wasn't whether forming townblocs is scummy, and Mastin's answer has to be read in that context. I don't agree 100% with Mastin's analysis, either.

In my experience, I've never seen a townie say to themselves, "X is town because X formed a townbloc," so forming townblocs doesn't have much value as far as tricking townies into thinking you're town. I've also never seen any evidence that people who "force" townblocs are scum more often than town. In fact, in my experience, the vast majority of folks forming the townblocs are town.

I'm not saying Metal is town. I don't know. I think as a matter of scumhunting, a better approach is asking Metal why he thinks Om and TN are town. Trying to understand his thought-process, etc.

[FourTrouble]

Mathdino is probably town.

[Paschendale]

The best move for scum is often pro-town (e.g. bussing when they don't have to). Of course, that blurs the line between pro-town and pro-scum moves. Forming townblocs blurs the line between pro-town and pro-scum, because you don't know if the player forming the townbloc is scum or town. That lack of knowledge doesn't mean the act of creating a townbloc is scummy -- it's null, unless you have independent evidence that the player forming the townbloc is town or scum, in which case the player is town or scum based on something other than the act of forming the townbloc. Point is, forming townblocs is null. Whether they end up having a pro-town or pro-scum effect depends on whether the player forming it is scum.

As for Mastin's "lecture," Mastin's point is more about probability of success or failure -- townblocs formed early fail more often than townblocs formed later; townblocs that form organically without trying succeed more often than townblocs that form consciously. The original lecture -- I looked into it -- was in response to the question, "What's the best way to form townblocs." The question wasn't whether forming townblocs is scummy, and Mastin's answer has to be read in that context. I don't agree 100% with Mastin's analysis, either.

In my experience, I've never seen a townie say to themselves, "X is town because X formed a townbloc," so forming townblocs doesn't have much value as far as tricking townies into thinking you're town. I've also never seen any evidence that people who "force" townblocs are scum more often than town. In fact, in my experience, the vast majority of folks forming the townblocs are town.

I'm not saying Metal is town. I don't know. I think as a matter of scumhunting, a better approach is asking Metal why he thinks Om and TN are town. Trying to understand his thought-process, etc.

Making townblocs is a good way to create mutual townreads when they aren't warranted, and linking yourself to other players who are generally acknowledged to look like town is a good way to protect yourself. That's why forming townblocs can be seen as suspect. However, as games progress, townblocs often form naturally. Determining whether it is natural or duplicitous is pretty much the trick.

[tn5421]

I disagree that intentionally making townblocs is a thing that should happen. Let it happen in its own or not at all.

I don't think we need to spend any longer discussing this and more time discussing the way Metal Sonic is trying to buddy/townread people in exchange for townreads in return.

[Om of the Nom]

Actually, upon further review, Mathdino's setup spec looks perfectly legit. It was a conversation about Eye's roleclaim, and it makes a lot of sense. And then Dino cuts short further role speculation, which is good.

Townpoints for Mathdino, scumpoints for Om for misrepping the discussion. And some suspicion for all those reads that really aren't warranted this early, especially without any justification.

yea sure it makes sense but its still bad and i stand by that
i dont need your filthy scumpoints
early reads are my style

[Om of the Nom]

The best move for scum is often pro-town (e.g. bussing when they don't have to). Of course, that blurs the line between pro-town and pro-scum moves. Forming townblocs blurs the line between pro-town and pro-scum, because you don't know if the player forming the townbloc is scum or town. That lack of knowledge doesn't mean the act of creating a townbloc is scummy -- it's null, unless you have independent evidence that the player forming the townbloc is town or scum, in which case the player is town or scum based on something other than the act of forming the townbloc. Point is, forming townblocs is null. Whether they end up having a pro-town or pro-scum effect depends on whether the player forming it is scum.

As for Mastin's "lecture," Mastin's point is more about probability of success or failure -- townblocs formed early fail more often than townblocs formed later; townblocs that form organically without trying succeed more often than townblocs that form consciously. The original lecture -- I looked into it -- was in response to the question, "What's the best way to form townblocs." The question wasn't whether forming townblocs is scummy, and Mastin's answer has to be read in that context. I don't agree 100% with Mastin's analysis, either.

In my experience, I've never seen a townie say to themselves, "X is town because X formed a townbloc," so forming townblocs doesn't have much value as far as tricking townies into thinking you're town. I've also never seen any evidence that people who "force" townblocs are scum more often than town. In fact, in my experience, the vast majority of folks forming the townblocs are town.

I'm not saying Metal is town. I don't know. I think as a matter of scumhunting, a better approach is asking Metal why he thinks Om and TN are town. Trying to understand his thought-process, etc.

this post feels like a whole bunch of filler

[Mathdino]

They're mine too, but shitty early reads aren't my style. Getting a lot of townvibes from the more prominent people, so I'm having trouble getting a vote. I can do a few real short ISOs but honestly I want ika and FuD to contribute something first.

[Flubbernugget]

What's a townbloc