Mini 1634 - English Premier League Mafia (Game over)

[Mario Balotelli]

Yiley has been prodded

[BROseidon]

@BRO - BBT is either being a very proactive scum, blending in with his questions and the like, or just playing a decent town game so far. Either way I'm not going to figure it out today, and I have more productive lines of investigation on the boil anywho.

You're either bad at articulating what you mean, or what you mean is wrong and that's a problem.

[BROseidon]

@347 - Guyett, how is 4burner scum if Yiley is town?

Either you are scum or there is scum on your wagon.
I have you as town so there must be scum on the wagon. I'm town so either Yiley or 4burner is scum

So why the fuck would you ever vote off a perceived coin flip for scum?

Also:

[BROseidon]

Also, this is what I think of Elk's vote:

[BROseidon]

(Also that's L-1)

[Red Arrow]

Sorry for the delay, I am quite a bit behind, however I am reading for the first time properly and making my notes as I see what is said in game.

Just a heads up, Whiskers is L-2. Lets not make this a quick lynch and get nothing from today in terms of information and furthering our reads.

Nervous of wagon building. Does nothing to stop it. Noted.

@

Absolute rubbish and clutching at straws. Simply saying don't lynch fast is not being 'nervous' It is simply a warning. At the time I wanted my no1 scum read lynched, but not in a spuer speed wagon were no other info is brought about in that day.

I'm not into this outguessing the mod game.

For all we know, the mod picked 13 clubs, randomly assigned alignments to each and then randomly assigned roles.

Whiskers is scummy independent of the mod's announcement.

People should be stating reasons for why Whiskers is scum without basing it on flavour.

Hmmm let me guess why you don't want us to look at what clubs could be what roles...

Hi BlueBloodedToffee, you are Everton, Everton are shit so you are a shitty scummer.

btw don't tell people what to do. Only I am allowed to do that.

not too fond of the attitude here, and fully agree with BBT. Playing out guess the mod does nothing but create confusion. We only have 2 flips, we do not know what other teams or roles are in the game. Find scum based on behavior rather than anything else.... ironic as this is the point I was trying to put out to BBT earlier in the game.

Right, so are you expecting me to be able to use psychic powers and assign the reads to the individual players? As much as I would like to, I can't. Goes against my game playing morals.

Now, who is town and who is not scum?

I actually don't care what you do lol. At this point I didn't se any of them as scum.

No one has come out as Man U yet, interesting.

Heres a question. WHY WOULD ANYONE come out with their role flavor? This is the 2nd time I've noticed you role/flavor fishing. BBT also caught the first.

No one has come out as Man U yet, interesting.

Considering the mod supports Forest, I'd say that Liverpool are likely to be scum in this game. Only team I know their fans don't like cos of Hillsborough. Not sure how else the mod would decide who the scum were, maybe he'd line the clubs up with roles first then work from there? It might be pissing in the wind a bit to try & work out which clubs were allocated to which roles but it still might be worthwhile looking at that.

I hate the 2nd attempt to push this even more

Also, why would you vote Guyett then push his shitty-ass reasoning?

I voted for Guyett for justice & to uphold the integrity of mafia moderation around the globe.

It's my reasoning you filthy animal. The first thing I did when I replaced in was ask the mod who he supported. You're reaching like a mother fucker. So I like my vote more on you now...

VOTE: BROseidon

how do you like them apples, bitch?

MAJOR OVER-REACTION - MAYBE WORSE THAN WHISKERS DAY 1 POST

For the record, it always looks scummy when someone quickhammers and follows up. Looks scummy when someone quickhammers and doesn't. Looks scummy when someone quickhammers, regardless.

But look, don't say it's my follow up post. It's important for me to acknowledge that I had fucked up. And after, to try to get Kaboose's final reads, in Twilight of his lynch. You think it's disingenuous? What's a "good" oopslynch post look like, Red Arrow?

It looks pretty much like your hammer post lol.

BBT is simply pushing the 'I said scum could be on his wagon' post meaning I am not looking into it, despite the fact I have adressed it MANY fucking times.

Yes, I said scum could possibly be on it. However, as i've said 1000 fucking times already. I am going after legit scummy behaviour (Whiskers & Kaboose) over a simple hunch. I never said it was a guarentee. I said it was possible that at least one scum was on it.

But again as I said 1000 times, and this one last time I will post it in big bold letters to get it through your thick fucking skull.

I will scum hunt based on legit behavior of others and not a hunch.

He is just repeating the same thing over and over and over without realizing I answered the question many times day 1. I will go on actual scummy behaviour than a simple hunch that someone may have been scum on his wagon. I don't get why he is pushing this so much. I said a few times its worth coming back to at a later time.

Right now I will go for people who are actually scummy. I have nothing more to back up 'at least 1 could be scum'

this is dragged on far too fucking long. BBT Deal with it.

What's scummy about my behaviour? In your own words? Please make a full case, with citations and reasons. Also, please answer my question yesterday, about why you think my first post, regarding BBT, was an "overreaction."

You shoul maybe read every post I have made about you so far.

BTW,

this

is more like an overreaction. (Take note, RA.)
.

I did note this when reading through on my catch up. I refer to it above, this is maybe worse than your over-reaction in my eyes.

Note as of this point - Yiley is creeping up to scum... very quiet so far, votes whiskers and I don't think I've seen much since. Could be pretty opertunistic.

Right now if I was to say who was scum. Ollie is role/flavor fishing majorly and Yiley is starting to peak my interest.

Yeah, yeah, I'll put that in the golden rules alongside scum never hammer or defend each other. I could do without a lesson from the guy who ran a train on poor Kaboose on day 1. Incidentally, you wouldn't be one of those scum who hammer because they're not expected to would you Whiskers?

the 'Poor' Kaboose thing seems overly wrong.. almost like he is trying to appeal to emotion on this.

Hmm big surprise your defending somebody who is attacking someone who is attacking you. Will have to do some thinking though.

Any other thoughts aside from a one liner?

Hmm big surprise your defending somebody who is attacking someone who is attacking you.

I don't know why BBT voted for Yiley after this post btw.

Hmm big surprise your defending somebody who is attacking someone who is attacking you. Will have to do some thinking though.

Hm, I'm attacking someone who is playing shitty. Big surprise.

You're on that fucking list too, you little twat

.

& you have the audacity to have a go at me for an over reaction!

btw you're the one who has quick hammered a townie who'd voted for you (OMGUS, er didn't you accuse me of that?) in this game Whiskers. In contrast I've voted for somebody & you've disagreed with my reasoning. I'd say you're winning when it comes to shitty play.

I've reread the thread & realized you're Liverpool...

Mod announcement: Whiskers is Liverpool Football Club.

Did I miss your explanation for why your club was outed? Did you ask for it to be outed?

Now it makes sense to me why you're backing up people who disagree that Liverpool could be scum & going on the attack against me. I'm actually a Liverpool fan (F U BBT ) & I have experience of the weird thing Forest fans have against Liverpool. I don't think the mod would think it was an obvious link. It's not like an Everton/Liverpool rivalry. It's not even a rivalry, it's a one sided thing for Forest fans. That was my theory, Guyett's is based off the role. Same conclusion but the similarity ends there.

Just thinking through this, I've arrived at a conclusion of what I think the role Liverpool were paired with is, that actually tallies with my thinking in a weird way. I reckon I could write out a version of your PM & it would be quite similar to what you have.

I think Man U won't be scum because it would be too obvious to make them scum. I am having doubts since nobody came forward when I asked though, but I'd still lean towards them most likely being town if they're in the game. Chelsea too to a lesser extent for the same reason.

If people don't wanna draw links based on clubs then just stfu cos I'm having my say about it anyway. I think I'm getting somewhere with it & I'm certain it's gonna be useful to theorize about clubs/roles going forward.

I'm sorry, but you really are just trying to out teams and fish rather than find scum. your motives seem overly invested in trying to find out who is Utd, Chelsea etc. No town motive, you're fishing for roles to sniff out I believe.

VOTE: Guyett

everyone should sheep me, he's definitely scum.


BTW I am Stoke City and I can give someone a post restriction of sorts for 1 day. I haven't used my power yet.

loldudewtf???????

why out yourself and why post something so unrelated to anything going on right now?

End of page 14.. I actually am starting to warm to whiskers as maybe town. Not 100% but he has slipped down the scum list majorly with Olie and Yiley replacing him at the top.

That's what I have so far, these are my reactions to posts as I saw them, again yes I am a bit behind and I appologize, I am trying to catch up. Hopefully a bit more either later or early tomorrow.

[Guyett]

@347 - Guyett, how is 4burner scum if Yiley is town?

Either you are scum or there is scum on your wagon.
I have you as town so there must be scum on the wagon. I'm town so either Yiley or 4burner is scum

So why the fuck would you ever vote off a perceived coin flip for scum?

Also:

4burners scum read list is a load of crap & the fact that he's really confident that us two are part of a team (because of nothing substantial) along with yiley who is basically lynch bait at this point is a red flag.

At LEAST one of

{Yiley, BBT, 4burner} Has to be scum from my POV

[Guyett]

I don't want Ollie lynched, I'm pretty sure he's town.

[Ollie]

Death

, so why the fuck are you asking for a modkill if you think it's unlikely? Pointless post then & you could have asked the mod via PM. The slot is also statistically more likely to be town so you're scumming the place up with this mod kill bull shit. Why are you objecting to me saying there should be a replacement so badly?

I don't think it was such a weak attempt to get people posting more Death, it seems to have worked on you. & that's actually what it was, not a call to vote for people with less votes than myself. I don't even know how you get that from that post.

I 'stalked' Yiley & massive as they were inactive & I was returning to my tactics from my most successful town game. elk I deem to be town as scum would be all over getting a replacement IMO as I have already stated. I would have been pestering the mod. I left RA alone cos of the dog situation. Yiley said he was gonna be more active & made a scummy post as a parting shot, that tipped the scales. He's actually posted in another game today but not in here.

I can't do anything without some fanciful conclusion being drawn in this game. I've never experienced anything like it! I think in future games I'm gonna make like 2 posts a game day to ensure that I don't get misrepresented so badly & so often.

[Whiskers]

2) I'm saying you may be purposefully playing bad for your scummates to lynch you for towncred. But other towns are also noticing it, obviously?
3) Ollie has nothing to do with the plan, how would he be in pre-game. I said Whiskers is the sacrifice. You read portion of my post perfectly and suddenly super-fail on reading another portion of the same post?
4) I don't think Whiskers and Ollie are fighting. Your later half of the post are misdirecting me somewhere else.

2 & 3)
Er, am I playing bad?
I completely didn't get the idea that I was the sacrifice. "I like your vote on Ollie, but seems the scum could make a sacrifice," made me think that Ollie was the sacrifice. The guy who, if we were both scum, and I had a vote on, would be the one closer to being a lynch? If not, why mention that you like my vote on ollie, in the same sentence?
So yeah, when you said "bad playing buddy," in the scenario where we were both scum, I assumed you were referring to Ollie.

4)
ALSO, the reason I bring up Ollie and Whiskers fighting (which you

should

think we were doing, because, uh, we were, please read the thread), is your painting of Whiskers and Ollie as a scumteam together-- which you did when you said (or I misinterpreted you saying) Scum-Whiskers sacrifices Scum-Ollie for towncred. I was saying, "no, look, that team doesn't even make any fucking sense."

[Ollie]

I don't want Ollie lynched, I'm pretty sure he's town.

I'm pretty sure I'm dead, my role won't stop my lynch. It's nothing useful to help scum hunt or protect anyone. Worse luck, so many people are on me in this game, the info from my lynch will be shit. & most of the reasons are flat out ridiculous when everyone looks back on them. The one good thing is that you will be cleared of being in a scum team with me & maybe people will stfu about the Liverpool thing. But I doubt it with these guys. Kaboose, me then you I bet, good luck.

[Whiskers]

Why Yiley over elk? 2 day active lurking deserves to die over 9 day active lurking?

The difference is that elk wasn't "active lurking."
And it pisses me right the hell off that elk just waltzs back in here after all this time to dump a single, solitary, second post on this game, instead of being replaced. He should have been replaced long ago. But no, he shouldn't be modkilled. He should be replaced with a competent player-- this town is rather lacking in them, at the moment.

[Guyett]

You aren't dead yet. You could full claim in case there's another lol hammer

[Whiskers]

Unvote

Guyett, you're acting damn scummy, please stop.

[Guyett]

I will act however I want. Something about 436 seems off to me

[Guyett]

Unvote

Guyett, you're acting damn scummy, please stop.

Also this implies you are town reading me in some capacity. Why?

[4burner]

Posts incoming in like an hour or two. Life etc.

As an aside, I think whomever hammers is going to have their club revealed. I don't mind this being me. So if someone has intent to hammer then we can play vote swapsies.

Or alternatively if you think I'm scum with some hammer based ability, just be warned that I think the hammerer will be outed and proceed accordingly if you dint want that to happen.

[Whiskers]

MAJOR OVER-REACTION - MAYBE WORSE THAN WHISKERS DAY 1 POST

You shoul maybe read every post I have made about you so far.

I did note this when reading through on my catch up. I refer to it above, this is maybe worse than your over-reaction in my eyes.

I'm just going to let this go, rather than try to torture an explanation out of you. I still hold that nothing in that post was an overreaction, and that you're making shit up.

It looks pretty much like your hammer post lol.

Great, so my hammer post looked good and the least scummy it could? Glad you think so and let me off the hook for it. Whew.

I don't think it was such a weak attempt to get people posting more Death, it seems to have worked on you. & that's actually what it was, not a call to vote for people with less votes than myself. I don't even know how you get that from that post.

For the record, it looked exactly the same to me-- seemed like you were calling for votes on low-post-count people.

I can't do anything without some fanciful conclusion being drawn in this game. I've never experienced anything like it! I think in future games I'm gonna make like 2 posts a game day to ensure that I don't get misrepresented so badly & so often.

Maybe you could make 2 clear posts a real day, and then people could actually fucking understand you? Then you wouldn't get misread so badly and so often.

I don't want Ollie lynched, I'm pretty sure he's town.

I'm pretty sure I'm dead, my role won't stop my lynch. It's nothing useful to help scum hunt or protect anyone. Worse luck, so many people are on me in this game, the info from my lynch will be shit. & most of the reasons are flat out ridiculous when everyone looks back on them. The one good thing is that you will be cleared of being in a scum team with me &

maybe people will stfu about the Liverpool thing.

But I doubt it with these guys. Kaboose, me then you I bet, good luck.

Dude
dude dude dude

There are like, three people talking about "The Liverpool Thing."

YOU ARE ONE OF THEM.

You are literally complaining about yourself, Guyett, and me. And I'm fucking exempt, for it being my role.

Also, you don't claim ONLY because your role is useful. A roleclaim can be useful sometimes even if your role is shit. I've seen people get out of lynches for claiming VT.

[Whiskers]

Unvote

Guyett, you're acting damn scummy, please stop.

Also this implies you are town reading me in some capacity. Why?

More that you're not totally incredibly stupid, and that seems to be kind of a fucking luxury in this Town.

Also, whether or not I have a scumread on you, I'm always willing to hear you out, if you can make sense.

And honestly, I'd

prefer

to townread most players. It bugs me when people do things like strongly defend someone whose alignment they can not know, (you cannot know his alignment ifyou're town,) with no discernible reason. It means either you're a cop, or you're scum.

Actually, let me delve into this a little further: Why don't you think Ollie is scum?

[Guyett]

I've played games with him and nodded games that he played in. I've seen a lot of scum ollie. I might be wrong but this looks like town Ollie. There is lots of town frustration on show imo

[Ollie]

Guyett & Whiskers, not only is my role not useful but it's also a pretty common fake claim for scum to avoid a lynch. So how the hell am I gonna get out of this one?

I was looking for a scum quick hammer as that's about the only use I could see for this role but I think that maybe it could help explain my actions a bit. The obvious link between

Southampton & Super Saint

is why I've been entertaining club & alignment/role match ups with some semi obvious/really obvious reasoning behind them, somehow this got twisted. I doubt finding who the scum are is really some hard to decipher puzzle & we could actually 'outguess the mod' to some extent if there wasn't so much opposition to it, but never mind.

role PM excerpt...

Having churned out talents like Gareth Bale, Theo Walcott, Adam Lallana, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and many, many more over recent years, to oust you from the game would hurt your rivals almost as much as it would hurt you. If you are lynched, the player who placed the hammer vote on you will also immediately be killed.

The mafiawiki was no help about how to play it (it's the first time I've had it). It said don't claim it early if you're town & if I claim it late I'm a policy lynch so whatever. Catch 22.

I mentioned it here, maybe elsewhere, I don't know....

Yeah my role is linked to my team clearly & also linked well in my PM so it's stupid as fuck to dismiss this kind of talk.

So that's that. Has it it helped? Nah!

[4burner]

@Death

Reads list (post 390 pg 16) - Brings up interesting points about Yiley re; playstyle. Question - Does the lack of any read early on gel with what you saw from your metadive? My main scum pings here are due to his blitheness and lack of investment, so if if this is something that is just standard Yiley then I don't know what to make of it at this time.

@Ollie

- (Post 391 pg 16)

RE: Reads list being crap.

You can't just call them crap because you just don't agree with them. Tell me WHY I'm wrong, as opposed to "LOL wrong, scum." And you saying "We are not a team" does absolutely nothing to prove it to ME, from where I am sitting.

RE: Really confident?

Oddly so, yes, I was. I'm still confident in you and Guyett. That comment was due to the fact that yeah, on Day 2 it is exceedingly uncommon to be confident in my reads and yet there I sat, looking at my list and thinking the 3 most likely scummers I had picked sat pretty well together and a lfew other scenario's didn't. I fully reserve the right to be wrong, of course. The fact that I still had Null slots in my readlist should be a bit of a flag that I'm not saying "I 100% guarantee these 3 to be scum" because that would just be daft. But looking at the gamestate and the play? It seemed likely.

RE: Long-windedness

- I don't 'make my posts really long' to sway opinion one way or another. I'm always long winded and if anything, this hurts my ability to sway opinion because people are likely to skim them, but that's my cross to bear. Typing long posts isn't a scumtell, it's a 4burnertell. And what's the clownery, exactly?

RE: Moving my vote

- Yes, I did, because you engaged in a scummy way after I had posted and nudged Guyett from the top. I'd call this a null flag at best if I witnessed it elsewhere, but that's obviously subjective.

RE: The Whiskers non-vote

- Who are you to tell me what the main flags of my scumread are? Here's the read in question:

@Ollie - Comes in swinging, takes a tone I really don't like, and then tries to game a Mod on a site he's only pretty just freshly joined? Unless he knows them from offsite or something similar. Basically I'm thinking scum due to Whiskers/Liverpool/Mod stuff ala Guyett. And never actually voted Whiskers despite agreeing with the anti-whiskers stuff from memory. Votes BRO over very little, comparatively.

There's quite a few reasons in there I find you scummy. How did you come to the conclusion that Whiskers stuff was the main flag? Curious given it's position in the write-up, and also because it was actually mostly due to your Liverpool ruminations RE: Mod gaming logic.
This is the second time you've told me what my motivation is rather than question it, what with the whole you being my 'top' scumpick yet I voted for Guyett. You are trying to misrep me it appears.
And furthermore, if I did misread the Whiskers non vote issue, then my apologies. I still think you are scum for other reasons, obviously.

RE: Your site meta knowledge

- I'm saying you are playing as if you are very sure of the site meta despite being newish. This is not-advisable. And this is all regarding you trying to game the mod, something which is not-advisable because you can't know what the mod has planned, and I'd like to think the mod wouldn't be so daft as to make a team he is

on record

as not liking be scum in a game he is modding.

RE: Guyett link stuff

- Process of elimination (ie all other peeps are null or townlean) + nothing to preclude you and Guyett being scumbuds means it's quite easy to see both of you being scum. And you saying "Yeah I always see scum openly communicating like this" is pure wifom. I don't know what scum do. I do know they try and play townie. I do know they could be trying to play 'scum never do this so they can't be scum." I do know they are trying to fool town, and nothing you've done has mechanically disproven, or even suggested that it's unlikely, that you and Guyett could be buds.

If I've missed anything, let me know.

What I do find damning is that you don't really argue my case with anything but attitude and an attempt to laugh it off. You are trying to discredit me as a player, rather that prove me wrong. And you've twice now misrepped what I've said or intended, and then called me scum for the reasoning behind said misrep when it isn't actually what is going on with my posts at all. You WEREN'T my top scumread. The main thrust of my case was NOT the Whiskers stuff.

If you are town, I'm not going to be able to see it until you drop the attitude. But then, I really don't think you are town given your casework on me and everything mentioned prior. Moving on.

Actually addendum to that. Post 339. In joke with Guyett. You just don't help yourself arguing with me about this non-link when you constantly engage with him!

@BBT

(Post 399 Pg 16)
Scum are less likely to be

genuinely

exasperated, and I read RA's posts as such. Mind-melding also gels with town RA. And to cap it off, you v RA smacks of town v town because as far as I know nobody else got involved in any major way, and I'd expect scum to egg it on in some direction rather than just let continue and potentially dwindle out. But that's wifom.
I'm townleaning on Death for more than associations. Guyett suspicion seems genuine and not manufactured. Setup spec was done in a way that didn't ring any alarms (ie no rolefishing). Associations

help

that townlean, but don't at all confirm it obviously.

Second time - WHY are you reading Ollie as town?

And what exactly in my read of you is posturing? It's based on the fact that I very rarely see town swinging it around so relentlessly and on point as you have done. And if I'm scum, then ALL my reads are posturing. So either all the reads are bullshit, or none are.

@Massive

(post 415 pg 17)

I know I'm town. If I see someone who is seeing the game in the same way as I do and acting thusly, it's more than likely they are town. If the logic is self contained and hangs together well, then I'm inclined to see it as town. If however, they were to go along posting as if they saw the game like I do and then acted in a way that I wouldn't expect, then that would send up flags. RA for mine has played in a fashion (at least early on) that correlates in numerous ways with my own, or at least my own train of thought. Combine this with no real pings from the slot and I arrive a townread. Would you disagree?

And his flip and my flip are not linked in any fashion, and I'm not trying to ride RA townvibes from anyone. If one of us is scum, the other could be, or the other could be town.

@BRO

(Post 426 pg 18)
Let's go with bad at articulation. BBT townread is explained above. I do stand by the fact that I won't be investigating him today though, because other players have a higher priority right now, and the limited time I have needs to be focused. As I said, and have said prior, should flips keep coming up town then I'll reasses, but nothing has pinged me so hard from BBT that warrants me dropping Ollie/Guyett/Yiley at this point in time.

[4burner]

Annnnnnnnnnd Supersaint Claim.

Interesting. I'm still confident in Ollie being scum, though.

1) Misrepping me twice.
2) Not fighting the case, fighting the player
3) Resigned to his death - If you are town, fight it and make people see why you are town.
4) He said it himself (which I find a little odd) - It's a claim to strike fear into town and one very easy to make as scum.

If people want this lynch, I'll happily hammer because I'm pretty certain I'm not going to die.
Furthermore, if I do die, my role is not at all vital compared to some others that could/might be in this game.

And Ollie, I'm sure you'll get great satisfaction from my death if you happen to be telling the truth.

[BROseidon]

Yeah that claim is bullshit.

[BROseidon]

4burner wouldn't be my first choice to hammer, but one I'm okay with.