Mini 1633 ~ Non-normal Mafias Mafia OVER!!!

[Flubbernugget]

I see most of what you're saying as bad play over scum play. Except maybe the policy lynches

[Ghostlin]

i said provide examples and you have failed to do so
as far as im concerned you are pulling things out of ur ass

You demanded examples of you not doing things. Do you realize that this is insane? Honestly, I don't care what you say. I have no interest in what you think of why I know that you're scum. I don't need your approval to show your alignment to everyone else. I don't know why anyone cares about your whining and yelling about it. Your "defense" has been little more than saying "nuh uh!"

So listen up everyone else, Om is going to lie in her defense. There is no doubt of that. If you, who might actually be town and legitimately interested in scumhunting, have questions about why I think she's scum, go ahead. I'd be happy to answer actual questions. But her questions aren't questions. They're stall tactics and attempts at deflection. We all saw her barreling ahead to get lynches in as fast as possible. She said NOTHING about holding off or not going ahead with these lynches until she was called out on it. The caution she claims to have had wasn't there. She isn't pushing lynches based on actual content. She is avoiding that at all costs. She's spent a week pushing what essentially amounts to policy lynches. Apparently, she townreads EVERYONE WHO IS POSTING (except me because I'm going after her). Seriously? That's complete bullshit. She's scum. She was trying to play it safe. And then she doubled down too hard on her scum tactics.

Question: do you feel that pushing for policy lynches is innately scummy? Please give me more than a 'yes' or 'no' to this question; I need to see the thought process.

I do agree you cannot arguably prove a negative, that's why they call it a fucking negative. Can you give a point of reference for the dumb kids in the back of the class (ie, me) that demonstrate the behaviors we're listing off?

I see most of what you're saying as bad play over scum play. Except maybe the policy lynches

Same question as to Pasch: do you see that as inherently scummy?

[tn5421]

Dear Lord, Titus is in the house.

The ika vs titus argument feels a bit forced to me, from both sides, although I'm looking more at ika here than Titus.

@Titus: would you mind detailing for me why you prefer to sheep paschendale, particularly against om (I swear I'm going to call him ohmbreaker by accident if you keep calling him ohm)

@ghostlin: pushing policy lynches is not in and of itself a bad thing, but there is a time and place for everything. Namely, I feel players should try to lynch their strong scumreads. Most of the current argument is about whether om is ignoring scumreads to push policy lynches, and the titus vs ika argument has a similar basis.

[Paschendale]

I see most of what you're saying as bad play over scum play. Except maybe the policy lynches

I've played with Om a few times before. Bad play would be surprising from her. It looks deliberate to me.

Question: do you feel that pushing for policy lynches is innately scummy? Please give me more than a 'yes' or 'no' to this question; I need to see the thought process.

No. I see pushing for policy lynches so steadfastly in this circumstance to be scummy. I see a complete refusal to analyze and examine content to be scummy. I see the move to push lynches that are based on policy as a pro-scum tactic, since it results in less information the next day. You can't really analyze a wagon if it's based on policy. Anyone who simply said "yes, that's good policy" could be scum taking advantage of a policy lynch on someone they know isn't their ally. And it is not simply the advocacy of a policy lynch that has made me think that Om is scum. It is the advocacy for several in a row and the refusal to start analyzing content that has. We're on page 27. We should have more than enough content to find an actual scum. Do we take a risk because all the scum might just be lurking? Yes. Should we forgo all of our usual scumhunting because of this risk? Hell no. But that is what Om is asking us to do. That is a move that absolutely hurts town and helps scum.

I do agree you cannot arguably prove a negative, that's why they call it a fucking negative. Can you give a point of reference for the dumb kids in the back of the class (ie, me) that demonstrate the behaviors we're listing off?

I'm not even really sure how to do this. One of the "arguments" she made was that she wasn't really trying to get a lynch to happen to end the day so quickly. There is no evidence of a timetable at all. She never addressed this. She simply advocated that people vote for a few specific people. What she is asking us to believe is that she would somehow have put a stop to the whole thing if it neared a lynch quickly. I see no reason to make this assumption on her behalf. When she finally did address this issue (when someone else brought it up), it was too little too late. Had more people gone along with her, we'd be in day 2 already with a quick lurker lynch. She can claim what her intent was all she likes, but that is the result that her actions would lead to.

I'm not sure what to give as a "point of reference" for this. There is no specific post addressing this. This is the sum total of many posts and the pace and tone she adopted throughout them in her attempts to push her lynches. She wanted no discussion, she wanted no analysis. She just wanted votes, and she gave every impression that she wanted them right now.

[tn5421]

You say that you've got a fine read on om implying that he is trying to rush lynches through. Would you mind quoting a post or two of what you feel are the most overt examples and walk us through how you arrived at scum!om?

Furthermore, could you explain how removing a lurker from the game can in any way considered to be a loss? It removes a negative utility player from the game, something that scum will NEVER do intentionally. I would honestly say the situation since 359 hasn't changed much. How long are we going to run around in circles before eventually deciding to lynch the most prolific lurker, anyway? Not that I'm against argument, but this one does not seem like it will be productive any time soon. We've established that you disagree about what sort of things to do on day one and that you feel anyone using a d1 theory that you aren't is your top scumread because Fucking Moon Logic. I would even say that pasch/om is doing more to slow down the game than the recent holiday season did.

[Om of the Nom]

So fat,
mathdino is town
Flubbererer is town
Om is town
Ika is town
Eyestott aint
VOTE: eyestott

i am so happy to see i wasnt wrong in townreading sonic


also my play this game is bad???
idk i thought it was pretty good i feel super insulted right now

[Om of the Nom]

pasch started his tirade by not agreeing with me on zombeh-scum
and somewhere down the line he turned it into zombeh=policy lynch
when i was clearly advocating zombeh as a scum lynch, with still some utility even if town bc got rid of a questionable player
now that titus is here and producing a lot of controversy in the thread and sparking action a lynch on that slot is less effective


with all the people posting now a lynch on an active slot wouldnt be damning
but at the time when i made the zombeh argument only about 5 people were regularly posting
and i dont understand why pasch was forcing himself to choose scum out of those 5 people
and i also dont understand why he thinks im not analyzing content
ive been scumhunting the whole game
i just got a little lazy as of late because everyone is taking care of this fight for me

[Om of the Nom]

pasch started his tirade by not agreeing with me on zombeh-scum
and somewhere down the line he turned it into zombeh=policy lynch
when i was clearly advocating zombeh as a scum lynch, with still some utility even if town bc got rid of a questionable player
now that titus is here and producing a lot of controversy in the thread and sparking action a lynch on that slot is less effective


with all the people posting now a lynch on an active slot wouldnt be damning
but at the time when i made the zombeh argument only about 5 people were regularly posting
and i dont understand why pasch was forcing himself to choose scum out of those 5 people
and i also dont understand why he thinks im not analyzing content
ive been scumhunting the whole game
i just got a little lazy as of late because everyone is taking care of this fight for me

[Om of the Nom]

Why do you think Om is not active? He is to me.

The Om focus is to generate conflict and force people to take sides and make reads easier. I could have focused on anyone but getting details from Pasch helps me read both.

Why do you not want to discuss Om? What is your read on him?

i want you to discuss me too
dont think that because you brought the conflict to its highest point you get to skate on by without anything other than a sheep

[Om of the Nom]

i think this argument would have more basis if its about how ive been getting increasingly arrogant and comfortable with my position in the town
because that is whats happenign right now

[ika]

The ika vs titus argument feels a bit forced to me, from both sides, although I'm looking more at ika here than Titus.

are you saying that my furstation that titus relace in this game now is fake?

(hint your answer bette be no)

[tn5421]

I'm saying that it could be.

[Titus]

@TN, The argument isn't forced. I just don't get what his problem is.

As for why sheeping, I cannot help but read the page I say hello on. It happens. Without context, Om looked bad. Plus a calm and reserved player like Paschendale generally does not tunnel like that. So sheeping would at least get me reads and see how everyone else felt. It gets us away ftom policy and towards discussion.

[Om of the Nom]

ok so
that does nothing to what i asked you to do
basing your read on me entirely on pasch's actions is a surefire way to get the read wrong, especially when he's tunneling, therefore super convinced that im scum

give me your own reasons for calling me scum
you said you are caught up there has to be more otherwise you shouldnt be on the wagon

[Om of the Nom]

i mean the only opinion you have given right now is a sheep
you havent given opinions on anyone else in the game
in fact you havent even given an opinion on pasch
the argument shouldnt just be about my alignment and play
it goes deeper than that

[Titus]

It's not a total sheep. Like I said, your posting on the last page felt off and it generates very helpful interactions.

[Om of the Nom]

and
that says nothing
about why
i know you felt it was off
but why??????

[Om of the Nom]

also you admitted yourself that it was entirely out of context
and you have done zero to remedy that

[CooLDoG]

VOTE COUNT 1.11

Om of the Nom (3) ~ FuDuzn Paschendale titus
tn5421 (0) ~
MTD (0) ~
ika (0) ~
Ghostlin (1) ~ Flubbernugget,
randomidget (1) ~ , Mathdino,

Mathdino (4) ~ ika, Om of the Nom, eyestott, Ghostlin (l-3)

Flubbernugget (0) ~
FourTrouble (0) ~
FuDuzn (1) ~ , FourTrouble
Paschendale (0) ~
eyestott (0) ~ randomidget
titus (0) ~ ,

It takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is: 17:00 (CST) Monday, January 19, 2015

Not Voting (2): MTD | tn5421

IKA. Keep it civil. That goes to you titus. Also everyone.

[FourTrouble]

So fat,
mathdino is town
Flubbererer is town
Om is town
Ika is town
Eyestott aint
VOTE: eyestott

Please explain. I'm like 99% certain eye is town.

[FourTrouble]

Titus is stupid but town.

[FourTrouble]

ika's hard to read, and I don't have a good sense of his meta, so I'm not sure about him yet.

[Om of the Nom]

Titus is stupid but town.

rlly not sure on that tho
cn u explain

[Paschendale]

You say that you've got a fine read on om implying that he is trying to rush lynches through. Would you mind quoting a post or two of what you feel are the most overt examples and walk us through how you arrived at scum!om?

No, I'm not pouncing on individual posts. I'm discussing what they add up to.

Furthermore, could you explain how removing a lurker from the game can in any way considered to be a loss? It removes a negative utility player from the game, something that scum will NEVER do intentionally. I would honestly say the situation since 359 hasn't changed much. How long are we going to run around in circles before eventually deciding to lynch the most prolific lurker, anyway? Not that I'm against argument, but this one does not seem like it will be productive any time soon. We've established that you disagree about what sort of things to do on day one and that you feel anyone using a d1 theory that you aren't is your top scumread because Fucking Moon Logic. I would even say that pasch/om is doing more to slow down the game than the recent holiday season did.

I see, so you don't actually want to lynch a scum today. We have thirteen players in this game. Maybe four qualify as lurking. Why would we limit ourselves to a random guess out of four people, of whom we don't have any reason to suspect that any are scum at all? Why shouldn't we deal with the players that we can actually make informed judgments about? Of course, to you, that's "fucking moon logic".

I also disagree with the idea that scum don't push lurker lynches. I've seen it before. And for the reasons I've given. It's a safe push. It's a way to push a mislynch without creating content, and it's a way to get some towncred out of the less discerning players. That's why scum talk policy on day one, so they can avoid talking about the important things.

pasch started his tirade by not agreeing with me on zombeh-scum
and somewhere down the line he turned it into zombeh=policy lynch
when i was clearly advocating zombeh as a scum lynch, with still some utility even if town bc got rid of a questionable player
now that titus is here and producing a lot of controversy in the thread and sparking action a lynch on that slot is less effective


with all the people posting now a lynch on an active slot wouldnt be damning
but at the time when i made the zombeh argument only about 5 people were regularly posting
and i dont understand why pasch was forcing himself to choose scum out of those 5 people
and i also dont understand why he thinks im not analyzing content
ive been scumhunting the whole game
i just got a little lazy as of late because everyone is taking care of this fight for me

Why is no one else calling Om out on the obviousness of the lie above? That there was any reason to call Zombeh scum? Seriously? That's complete nonsense. That was 100% policy no matter how you dress it up. And the biggest lie... that the players who are active at one moment will always have that activity. She assumes that those who weren't active when she decided to kill a lurker would always be inactive, and seems to think that I think the same thing. I stopped her push for a quick lynch on a lurker because I knew that people would start showing up. And they have. But all Om can do is keep reinforcing this lie.

As for why sheeping, I cannot help but read the page I say hello on. It happens. Without context, Om looked bad. Plus a calm and reserved player like Paschendale generally does not tunnel like that. So sheeping would at least get me reads and see how everyone else felt. It gets us away ftom policy and towards discussion.

I wouldn't call it a tunnel. But Om is stepping so far out of line that I can't let it go.

Please explain. I'm like 99% certain eye is town.

The more I look at it, that post from Midget looked more like looking for allies than actual reads.

[Ghostlin]

So fat,
mathdino is town
Flubbererer is town
Om is town
Ika is town
Eyestott aint
VOTE: eyestott

Context would be nice. Considering the slot you replaced.