Newbie 1572 - Chicken Parmigiana Mafia (Over)

[Diego1487]

VOTE: DDD

Reasons? They may help settle/stir up my paranoia.

[Drixx]

Unvote

VOTE: DDD

Voted "letters" for asking for reads. Seems to me that the IC is an obvious choice to ask for reads. That, I think, is what was making me uncomfortable about the numbers wagon; that is, the first one on, and the how. DDD later responded to "letters" request for a couple specific reads, but did a sort of rough overview, said he didn't see why he needed to read someone (a very odd statement since identifying probable town is just as necessary as identifying scum) and then asked a very odd question at the end.

The other thing that bothers me about DDD on the re-read is that he stated, unequivocally, that Bitmap

is

town, based upon a small sample size of posts and some prior gameplay together. Since both are experienced, this bothers me on several levels:

1.) It's a scum tell to declare that someone

is

town, without any qualifier. Scum are the informed minority and the only ones who know for sure.
2.) This declaration, if it were accurate, would mean that Bitmap, despite being a very experienced player, would be so easy to meta read that one can know within a few posts whether he's town or not. That's pretty hard to swallow.

DDD seems pretty smart. He hasn't put a lot on the record, and what is there is problematic. Vouching for another player without any qualification. Starting a wagon without any explanation. It doesn't really make much sense on re-read, not even in what little flow we've had in so few posts for the time.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm going to be V/LA through Monday, I'll try to post some but it'll all be from my phone so no quotes and such.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

There are two parts to the post above and both are wrong. The first is that I found the Diego read a waste of time. Because it was, there were no smoking guns and my previously formed opinion wasn't changed. Seems like a waste of time to me. The second is the Bitmap issue and that's some Drixx grade nonsense. Bitmap is town is shorthand for I think Bitmap is town, we shouldn't have to add qualifiers to everything we write. As for the lack of given reasons, why would I bother? No one was pressuring Bitmap so there's no need to extend myself in that regard. What a bunch of nothing, especially from ika's first post of any substance.

[Drixx]

Gee, I'm flattered. I'm so bad I have my own level of badness. As you say though, DDD, playing is the way to get better.

Even if you take the qualifier bit out (and it

is

potentially a scum slip. Whether someone with 5k+ posts and your experience level would make it is an open question), you still threw out a town read on bitmap, at a time when you yourself say nobody was pressuring Bitmap. So we're still sitting at the question of whether Bitmap has such an identifiable meta that he can be identified as town within a few posts of the start of a game, and the question of why you felt the need to preemptively say he's town.

One interesting thing I noticed in my re-read is that you only respond to parts of posts. Anything you can answer in a dismissive way, you will. If there's something you can't answer ... you just ignore it.

[ika]

VOTE: DDD

Reasons? They may help settle/stir up my paranoia.

easy he has yet to really do anythign that i would expect him to be doing as town.

i have a scum game with him and in that one he basicly talked about nothing. here i see the same thing

[ika]

im aslo advocating the "be useful or die" type of thing. there have been ohters who could fall in that (argubly me even) but this is newbie and there is very little to no reason to play the "close to vest" game

[ika]

my normal play is really abrasive and no reasons but when im here in these games i play diffrent to accomade newbies

[Drixx]

my normal play is really abrasive and no reasons but when im here in these games i play diffrent to accomade newbies

Abraisive play is a good way to take advantage of folks who will respond out of emotion. From emotion comes slips and tells. I'm not sure you're doing new players any favors by putting off that lesson.

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 1.07

fjkldsjh (3)- Debonair Danny DiPietro, Pramitz, Bitmap
Debonair Danny DiPietro (2)- ika, Drixx
Diego1487 (1)- fjkldsjh

Not voting: zombiekitty, Diego1487, Kaleidoscope

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Replacing

Kaleidoscope

Deadline

4th February, 11pm AEDT. This is in (expired on 2015-02-04 08:00:00)

[Bitmap]

Unvote

VOTE: DDD

Voted "letters" for asking for reads. Seems to me that the IC is an obvious choice to ask for reads. That, I think, is what was making me uncomfortable about the numbers wagon; that is, the first one on, and the how. DDD later responded to "letters" request for a couple specific reads, but did a sort of rough overview, said he didn't see why he needed to read someone (a very odd statement since identifying probable town is just as necessary as identifying scum) and then asked a very odd question at the end.

It's called deflecting his wagon. It's very common as scum to ask questions regarding other people in order to deflect attention.

1.) It's a scum tell to declare that someone

is

town, without any qualifier. Scum are the informed minority and the only ones who know for sure.
2.) This declaration, if it were accurate, would mean that Bitmap, despite being a very experienced player, would be so easy to meta read that one can know within a few posts whether he's town or not. That's pretty hard to swallow.

No it isn't. I know multiple ICs and players who withhold their reads in order to get a feel for other players first.

[Bitmap]

VOTE: DDD

Reasons? They may help settle/stir up my paranoia.

easy he has yet to really do anythign that i would expect him to be doing as town.

i have a scum game with him and in that one he basicly talked about nothing. here i see the same thing

Do you have posts to back this statement up? Especially from previous games?

[Bitmap]

Well, it looks I'll have to defend my DDD town read.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=22548

First game on site. DDD goes after Nos from the throat and calls him out on everything even when wrong. He then goes for Rach but dies after Night 1. His play this game was very attack-orientated. While I don't see that much aggression here, it's still more leaning towards his town-play there.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=32444

Very sad about this game but this was a game where DDD was scum and I replaced in as town. When I did my first re-read, DDD literally coasted D1 and got a town lynched and literally coasted without doing much D1. On D2, his scum buddy with a claim was literally going to die so he bussed his scum buddy. I literally had him pinned and went full on suicide tactic on him which backfired after I showed some doubt.

[Bitmap]

Anyways, I see letters as newb scum. Ask questions to deflect his lynch. Hop on and off my wagon when there was no support. Doesn't use their vote.

[Bitmap]

ika has moved from a slight town read to null in my bookie. I don't like the counter-wagon.

[fjkldsjh]

Everyone seems to think I was scum. The last game I played on this site I was scum:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6399643

Make of it what you will.

[ika]

my normal play is really abrasive and no reasons but when im here in these games i play diffrent to accomade newbies

Abraisive play is a good way to take advantage of folks who will respond out of emotion. From emotion comes slips and tells. I'm not sure you're doing new players any favors by putting off that lesson.

b/c im the exact type of player that you have described right now. the thing is an emotion based player plays just like that. tbh, teaching that kind of stuff to a first time player is not really someing i recommend (at least on day 1). Day 2/3 i could see the play coming in but day 1 for me in nebies is getting players used to just playing.

tbh i would argue the best way to really play is throw yourself into a game and just go with it. ICs have obligations, while SE (me and bit) have no obligation.

from emotions comes not really slips or tells, but rather outburst and heat. its all on how you do it and how its employed.

@bitmap:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=59131

i replaced in and all he talked about was his survivability and stupid pointless crap

[ika]

if you want me to be like that towards you i will.

bit and DDD are not immune to it, the other newbs have a day 1 and partial day 2 immunity. if they want it off and me to be abrasive then they need to tell me

[Diego1487]

Everyone seems to think I was scum. The last game I played on this site I was scum:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6399643

Make of it what you will.

Letters, put yourself in our shoes. If another player, for argument sake me your current scum read, posted this, how would you view it?

[zombiekitty]

Hi I'm just catching up now. Work was super hectic and I'm so exhausted physically and mentally, so not sure if I can even concentrate x_x

I'm on page 5 atm and I see mostly theory talks so far.

[Pramitz]

I believe drixx and bitmap are town. I am also willing to trust bitmap on DDD being town, for now. He was a null read anyway, I am pretty far away from voting him.

[zombiekitty]

What constitutes a "wall" post? I don't believe I even have the longest post in the game, nor are my posts consistently long. From the newbie games so far (of which I've completed one and am playing in two others), this site doesn't appear to actually have 'generally accepted theory'.

If you think I can't talk theory a bit and scumhunt at the same time, you're sadly mistaken.

I didn't see much scum hunting around the time you posted this, just talked more about theory =/

I voted kaleidoscope because of inactivity AND when he did post they were fluff. That's more scummy activity than the other two.

Would post 125 also have influenced this scum read of her?

The other thing that bothers me about DDD on the re-read is that he stated, unequivocally, that Bitmap

is

town, based upon a small sample size of posts and some prior gameplay together. Since both are experienced, this bothers me on several levels:

Can you point to the post where he "unequivocally" stated this? Proof of the post would be nice, or else this argument is just void.

Well, it looks I'll have to defend my DDD town read.

How confident are you about this town read on DDD? (Maybe rate it from 1 to 10, 10 being the highest?)

Also, since I've never played with anybody here, meta reading is impossible, and I'm not going to depend on it too much as reasoning from other people and would prefer something else to support those reads.

And this is why I can't depend on meta reading here: one player who has played with DDD claims he has done this play as scum and another one who has played with him claims he has done this as town.

See the problem???

Anyways, I'd really like to see what Kalei's replacement would have to say. I've been getting a weird feeling about her slot but since there wasn't really much posts from her, I can't really be sure about it.
I'm still in the process of trying to read the motivation behind everyone's posts and right now, my concentration is just not there. I'll get back to it during the weekend when I've more freetime to sit back, re-read and think.

[zombiekitty]

@zombie in your next post i expect your vote to be put into play

I haven't really decided on who I want to see lynched yet, but there was somebody that made me squint at their posts for some reason.

VOTE: Pramitz

[fjkldsjh]

Everyone seems to think I was scum. The last game I played on this site I was scum:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p6399643

Make of it what you will.

Letters, put yourself in our shoes. If another player, for argument sake me your current scum read, posted this, how would you view it?

Depends on the game tbh. Meta is pretty important, I think it's good to read the past games of the players you are playing with. Everyone plays different as scum than they do as town and vice versa.

[Diego1487]

If you think we're that gullible, you deserve this.
If you are that naive of a scum player, you deserve this.
If you are that weak of a town player, you deserve this.

VOTE: fjkldsjh

That puts fjkldsjh at L-1. Please state intent to hammer before any vote for him.