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Post Post #1800 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:37 am

Post by Cephrir »

In post 1798, farside22 wrote:
In post 1767, Cephrir wrote:Right. When I read AP's posts they feel town, but when I try to remember what they said later I tend to draw a blank. That's interesting, though? I would ask Mastin to talk about it, but I imagine she'll say something like, "Bluntly. He's just
town
." which while perhaps accurate, does not really help me :P

I have played one game with TD. Both town. We mislynched him, but he's way scummier here. That was also the most apathetic town game I've played in recent memory.



I played only once with td. He was town and I was scum. He was mislynched that game. My issue with him is how different he is but its not enough to push it, it is enough not to follow or trust him right now.

We're talking about the same game. :|
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Post Post #1801 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 8:49 am

Post by farside22 »

In post 1800, Cephrir wrote:
In post 1798, farside22 wrote:
In post 1767, Cephrir wrote:Right. When I read AP's posts they feel town, but when I try to remember what they said later I tend to draw a blank. That's interesting, though? I would ask Mastin to talk about it, but I imagine she'll say something like, "Bluntly. He's just
town
." which while perhaps accurate, does not really help me :P

I have played one game with TD. Both town. We mislynched him, but he's way scummier here. That was also the most apathetic town game I've played in recent memory.



I played only once with td. He was town and I was scum. He was mislynched that game. My issue with him is how different he is but its not enough to push it, it is enough not to follow or trust him right now.

We're talking about the same game. :|


I thought so.

My issue with meta reads is they have lead me in bad places more often then good.
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Post Post #1802 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:21 am

Post by Solar Wind »

Here are the reasons why Cephrir is scum and why we are lynching him today:


1. He eggs on the suspicion of Xombie in by encouraging my and FT's pushes there and way he questioned the Rach and Ooba townreads is geared toward instilling paranoia. He continues in by quoting a random Xombie post with "this post blows" when the post in question wasn't all that bad and actually explained Xombie's entrance into the game.

2. The agreement with FT in felt odd and as FT pointed out earlier, Ceph and FT had never been town together and the way he did it feels like trying to work himself into a townbloc because FT previously mentioned that he wanted Ceph to be town.

3. The mutual townreads from AP and Ceph based on Ceph commenting on the quality of AP's jokes in and AP calling him town are super weak and the complete lack of paranoia doesn't feel genuine at all. This continues in where he picks out perfectly null things from AP's posts and gives them unsubstantiated compliments ("This analysis is more than skin deep") and defending AP.

4. His scumread on Ankamius in where he rails on him for not reading the game saying "
If only some brave hero could sweep in and vote this!
" and later comment on FT's Ank vote saying "
My knight in shining armor has arrived!
" all in the same post feels like a massive setup meant to manipulate FT as opposed to a genuine read. His actual read is ridiculously weak: Ank is scum for saying he'll read stuff but not actually reading. Which I think is equally likely to come from lazy town and lazy scum.

5. Ceph's townread on FT is unnatural to the extent that he goes to great lengths to shout down attacks on FT. Criticizing TiphaineDeath in for "
buzzword scumhunting
" and defending FT doesn't match with Ceph claiming that he and FT see things so differently. If he did, he wouldn't have such a confidence in FT being town that he's willing to defend any and all attacks against FT. His push on Brantz in when Brantz pushed against FT follows a similar vein as does his "
[your questions aren't unconnected], he is throwing shit
" to FT about TD.

6. His comment on Ffery's townread of Rach in ("
You say this like you expect Rach to immediately back down and defer to you
") feels manipulative as hell as he's trying to psychologically goad Rach into disregarding Ffery's read and rebelling and does not at all match up with his evaluation of Ffery's abilties as having meta-prowess rising above all others. His "I
'm a person too. I have questions. You don't run FT
" in to my asking FT about Ceph is in a similar vein of mischaracterizing interactions to divide the town.

7. The TiphaineDeath push overall has a very manipulative edge to it i.e. he wants FT to join him in leading a TD push. Examples include the quote in where he quotes TD calling FT dumb, calls it belligerence, defends FT, and ends the post by voting TD.

8. Exaggerated reactions to PeregrineV in ("
Who are you? What are you doing here? Where am I?
") is gimmicky and comical and sets up to potentially mislynch him when Ceph knows that PV lurks out the early days as town.

9. The fatalism in feels premature as he hadn't made any effort yet to discuss my scumread on him with me nor had I actually posted a case yet which feels like he's manipulating how people perceive the incoming case. His complete lack of response or disagreement with my list of reads falls under a similar vein where he just discredits the entire wall as "words" even though it contains
absolutely nothing
about my read on him. Calling them "Serum and Steel flashbacks" makes no sense as I was scum there and he is all but certain I'm town here.

10. - His "this post is too sweet..." feels like blatant sucking up to Nacho. He has before as scum sucked up to players in this way: compare to this post. His falls along the same line and his "
You're ffery. Your meta prowess rises above all other meta
" just feels gross and doesn't at all match up with his past experience playing with Ffery. The "
Ffery is doing a pretty solid job of talking me down for now
" feels more like appealing to Ffery to continue reconsidering her initial scumread on him.

11. Ceph's interaction with me also feels like mega-buddying at first when I said I wanted him to be town (his ) but later on switches to discrediting my read after I've called him scum (giving AP a hug in after AP tells me to shut up about Tales).

Literally everything that Ceph has done this game has been trying to twist the gamestate in his favor, appealing to town players he thinks he can manipulate, and there is nothing about his reads that feel as though it genuinely came from town. I expect votes to follow or reasons why not.

VOTE: Cephrir
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Post Post #1803 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:30 am

Post by Cephrir »

I'm gonna start off by saying I don't even do that on purpose when I'm scum and actually respond later.

You shouldn't lynch me today whether you believe I'm town or not, though.
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Post Post #1804 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:33 am

Post by vezokpiraka »

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:
Here are the reasons why Cephrir is scum and why we are lynching him today:




How about we lynch you? Nearly everything you said about cephrir can be said about you and in your case it was with scummy intentions and could hardly be attributed to a town mind process.
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Post Post #1805 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:41 am

Post by Cephrir »

I know this is going to sound like I'm ~discrediting you~ but that post makes it very apparent to me that you just don't understand the way I play this game, and we clearly play in such fundamentally different ways that I don't think you should even try in the future. I really thought this was going to be a big demoralizing wall of death, but it's... really not. It reminds me of pie's S&S case (deal with it) actually.
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Post Post #1806 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:42 am

Post by Cephrir »

Although that one did end up being demoralizing, that was only because everyone bought it. So I guess we'll see about that.
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Post Post #1807 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:57 am

Post by House »

In post 1805, Cephrir wrote:I know this is going to sound like I'm ~discrediting you~ but that post makes it very apparent to me that you just don't understand the way I play this game, and we clearly play in such fundamentally different ways that I don't think you should even try in the future. I really thought this was going to be a big demoralizing wall of death, but it's... really not. It reminds me of pie's S&S case (deal with it) actually.


I can't lynch this.
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Post Post #1808 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:10 am

Post by Solar Wind »

Would you lynch this?:

The Fox and the Hound wrote:Stop.

Stop trying to simultaneously play the victim and gloat about how you're going to get us lynched. That doesn't even make sense.

And most of all, just stop fucking talking to me.
The Fox and the Hound wrote:Are you having reading comprehension issues, or are you just enjoying your ability to exude fake righteousness so much that you can't honor a simple request

I guess this is supposed to help contribute to your future fake breakdown or something

I'm pretty much permanently done with anyone who falls for your shit tomorrow
The Fox and the Hound wrote:Oh, yeah, let's pretend like there is any chance we're not getting lynched, that sounds like great fun

It makes plenty of fucking sense, we have zero influence.

Or keep talking if you want but I promise you I can and will get more unpleasant than I already have
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Post Post #1809 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:14 am

Post by Solar Wind »

For reference, the sympathy stuff he pulls shouldn't be a reason for a townread. People who haven't played with scum-Ceph tend to find these things town or go the "would scum actually do this?" route but that's not barely helpful.
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Post Post #1810 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:17 am

Post by Solar Wind »

In other news, I want to do a massive re-evaluation of Imperium to solidify my read there.
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Post Post #1811 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:18 am

Post by Cephrir »

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:
Here are the reasons why Cephrir is scum and why we are lynching him today:

Before we begin, I'd like to take a moment to be annoyed by this language. I know you're a power player, but even your friggin' hydra partner doesn't believe we are all going to 100% sheep you. That is all.

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:1. He eggs on the suspicion of Xombie in by encouraging my and FT's pushes there and way he questioned the Rach and Ooba townreads is geared toward instilling paranoia. He continues in by quoting a random Xombie post with "this post blows" when the post in question wasn't all that bad and actually explained Xombie's entrance into the game.

First of all, I don't know why "egging on suspicion" is supposed to be scummy. It's called agreeing. People do it. I also question townreads when, you know, I don't understand them, and want to have them explained to me so that I can form my own opinion better. You may have noticed I've been asking everyone with a townread on ooba to explain it; it's because I don't fully get that but I want him to be town because I found him enjoyable last time we played together. You can't just say something is "geared toward instilling paranoia" without explaining why. Also, I quote things and say I dislike them pretty routinely. Moreover, this point seems to be taking the view that I am trying to mislynch Xombie to benefit my scum agenda, which does not jive with the fact that I am now townreading him.

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:2. The agreement with FT in felt odd and as FT pointed out earlier, Ceph and FT had never been town together and the way he did it feels like trying to work himself into a townbloc because FT previously mentioned that he wanted Ceph to be town.

I don't think I was particularly trying to work myself into a townbloc, but let's surmise for a moment that I was. That is something I do regardless of alignment. I always feel left out of townblocs because I am almost never included due to the paranoia I instill in people who have played with me often. AW was pretty much the first time I've really felt like part of a townbloc, and it was wonderful. I'm surprised you haven't noticed my tendency to shamelessly buddy my strongest townreads. I always do that. It feels natural to me. Even though said townreads are frequently weirded out by my trust.

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:3. The mutual townreads from AP and Ceph based on Ceph commenting on the quality of AP's jokes in and AP calling him town are super weak and the complete lack of paranoia doesn't feel genuine at all. This continues in where he picks out perfectly null things from AP's posts and gives them unsubstantiated compliments ("This analysis is more than skin deep") and defending AP.

Um, my comment on the quality of AP's jokes was not a townread. It was suspicion.

If you want, I can try explaining why I thought things were town. A lot of this analysis seems for some reason predicated on the idea that I am not allowed to read something differently from you. Obviously, I didn't think whatever I commented on was null.

I'm defending AP?

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:4. His scumread on Ankamius in where he rails on him for not reading the game saying "
If only some brave hero could sweep in and vote this!
" and later comment on FT's Ank vote saying "
My knight in shining armor has arrived!
" all in the same post feels like a massive setup meant to manipulate FT as opposed to a genuine read. His actual read is ridiculously weak: Ank is scum for saying he'll read stuff but not actually reading. Which I think is equally likely to come from lazy town and lazy scum.

Excuse me, I like to be cutesy sometimes. Yes, I wrote the first comment knowing I was going to write the second. And I was only ten or so pages into the game at that point, so all things considered I think that's sufficient basis for a scumread. If I actually said it on page whatever I doubt you'd take so much issue; my approach to catchups is to pretend I'm there in the moment and say whatever I think I would have said, only cutting things out if I run across someone else saying exactly what I was going to. And I suppose I have a higher threshold for what I consider worthy of comment, in the interest of keeping my walls from being completely pointless.

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:5. Ceph's townread on FT is unnatural to the extent that he goes to great lengths to shout down attacks on FT. Criticizing TiphaineDeath in for "
buzzword scumhunting
" and defending FT doesn't match with Ceph claiming that he and FT see things so differently. If he did, he wouldn't have such a confidence in FT being town that he's willing to defend any and all attacks against FT. His push on Brantz in when Brantz pushed against FT follows a similar vein as does his "
[your questions aren't unconnected], he is throwing shit
" to FT about TD.

Did you even talk to ffery about this post? Shouting down attacks on my townreads is textbook Cephrir. I get level-0 scumreads for it all the time. I was saying that FT and I *usually* tend to see things differently, not that we do here, where I find myself agreeing with most of his reads. Yeah, I think FT's really town. So do you. I can point at a townread this strong I've had in nearly every game I've played recently on site. I'm usually right. I miss getting to say always so thanks a lot Nacho.

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:6. His comment on Ffery's townread of Rach in ("
You say this like you expect Rach to immediately back down and defer to you
") feels manipulative as hell as he's trying to psychologically goad Rach into disregarding Ffery's read and rebelling and does not at all match up with his evaluation of Ffery's abilties as having meta-prowess rising above all others. His "I
'm a person too. I have questions. You don't run FT
" in to my asking FT about Ceph is in a similar vein of mischaracterizing interactions to divide the town.

That's not what I was trying to do at all. I found ffery's tone a bit imperious and that annoyed me. I get that some players have a lot of pull, but we've all got to think for ourselves as well. Since according to you I'm really manipulative and am calculating my every move, you must therefore think I did this to try to turn Rach against you, which given that I am now actively not trying to lynch you and would fight off any attempt to do so, does not make any sense. If I am coldly pushing agendas on purpose as you insist, I must be really terrible at it since I can't seem to keep straight what they are.

You were not "asking" FT about me in that post, so this is a mischaracterization. Let's take a look, shall we?

SW wrote:@ FT, I really don't care about you explaining to Ceph why I'm town because I am town and you are town. I really want to focus more on Ceph's actual alignment.

That's not a question. It's an attempt to run FT and tell him how he is and is not allowed to interact with me.

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:7. The TiphaineDeath push overall has a very manipulative edge to it i.e. he wants FT to join him in leading a TD push. Examples include the quote in where he quotes TD calling FT dumb, calls it belligerence, defends FT, and ends the post by voting TD.

No it doesn't. That's not manipulative. Who would be manipulated by that?

But let's suppose I was trying to get FT to vote with me here, just to illustrate how much this point sucks.

It's hard to lynch anyone without encouraging others to join you. This would then essentially be you scumreading me for trying to be a town leader. I guess only the cool kids are allowed to do that.

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:8. Exaggerated reactions to PeregrineV in ("
Who are you? What are you doing here? Where am I?
") is gimmicky and comical and sets up to potentially mislynch him when Ceph knows that PV lurks out the early days as town.

I'm trying to mislynch PV now? What the fuck? I was commenting on his lack of presence. In my experience PV lurks out all the days as everything, and it annoys me. Yes, it was an exaggerated reaction. I'm trying to have fun and throw a little humor around. I'm pretty sure that's legal in the continental US. (omg I did it again!!!!!!!)

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:9. The fatalism in feels premature as he hadn't made any effort yet to discuss my scumread on him with me nor had I actually posted a case yet which feels like he's manipulating how people perceive the incoming case. His complete lack of response or disagreement with my list of reads falls under a similar vein where he just discredits the entire wall as "words" even though it contains
absolutely nothing
about my read on him. Calling them "Serum and Steel flashbacks" makes no sense as I was scum there and he is all but certain I'm town here.

A.) I couldn't discuss your scumread on me with you, because there was nothing to respond to yet, and because you're impossible to discuss that kind of thing with anyway.

B.) It does make sense, because you honestly believed I was scum in S&S.

C.) I'll have words about your list of reads. I just haven't gotten around to it yet and nothing jumped out at me as requiring immediate comment. I am at work, you know. I've got a lull right now.

D.) I just typed "words" over your post because I didn't want to quote the whole thing. It does contain something about your read, which was the information that you are going to try to lynch me today. That made me unhappy.

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:10. - His "this post is too sweet..." feels like blatant sucking up to Nacho. He has before as scum sucked up to players in this way: compare to this post. His falls along the same line and his "
You're ffery. Your meta prowess rises above all other meta
" just feels gross and doesn't at all match up with his past experience playing with Ffery. The "
Ffery is doing a pretty solid job of talking me down for now
" feels more like appealing to Ffery to continue reconsidering her initial scumread on him.

I type what I feel. Deal with it. When I say nice things to people even as scum, it is sincere. I see no issue with using mafia games as a medium to inform people that I like them.

It actually does match up. I'm surprised you haven't figured out I have a high opinion of ffery's play. I've started to sheep her before, and I don't usually sheep even momentarily. I think every time I've ever blatantly sheeped and not backed off it shortly thereafter, literally ever, I've been scum.

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:11. Ceph's interaction with me also feels like mega-buddying at first when I said I wanted him to be town (his ) but later on switches to discrediting my read after I've called him scum (giving AP a hug in after AP tells me to shut up about Tales).

I buddy my townreads.

I discredit people whose reads on me are bad.

Wanting to give someone a hug is not a discredit of someone else. I'm sorry that you are apparently a robot.

In post 1802, Solar Wind wrote:Literally everything that Ceph has done this game has been trying to twist the gamestate in his favor, appealing to town players he thinks he can manipulate, and there is nothing about his reads that feel as though it genuinely came from town. I expect votes to follow or reasons why not.

These are all bold, broad, sweeping statements that you have not supplied evidence for.
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Post Post #1812 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:19 am

Post by Cephrir »

In post 1809, Solar Wind wrote:For reference, the sympathy stuff he pulls shouldn't be a reason for a townread. People who haven't played with scum-Ceph tend to find these things town or go the "would scum actually do this?" route but that's not barely helpful.

Bringing up foxhound would make sense if I was actually AtEing, but I am not.
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Post Post #1813 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:12 am

Post by farside22 »

In post 1810, Solar Wind wrote:In other news, I want to do a massive re-evaluation of Imperium to solidify my read there.


I would consider pushing a lynch if you start another argument in this game with that player and damn your alignment.


Also not agreeing with your view in cephrir.

You want to know I'll explain.







It's based mostly how you felt during that time about cephrir and can fit town rational just as well
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Post Post #1814 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:16 am

Post by Solar Wind »

@ Farside, my case on Cephrir actually has nothing to do with me and Ceph's previous argument. I think that's alignment-null for him actually.

This is a much better lynch than the Ace Of Spades push and you're going to have to give me a lot more than your current case if you want me to vote Ace over Ceph.
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Post Post #1815 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:29 am

Post by Imperium »

I'm still weary of cephrir but I liked his response to the case. Way lot less manipulative than I associate with scum!cephrir. Talked to nacho for a bit about cephrir, and while he's admitted he's not great at readin cephrir (we both have a tendency to town-read him/be manipulated by him) and he's not interested in lynching cephrir today.

We didn't talk about mastin though :/

Also ceph - you were referring to nacho fooling you in that catchup wall and not being able to trust your read on him? I meant to ask about that earlier and forgot, but I thought you were responding to me when you said that and I was confused.
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Post Post #1816 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:32 am

Post by Solar Wind »

In post 1815, Imperium wrote:I'm still weary of cephrir but I liked his response to the case. Way lot less manipulative than I associate with scum!cephrir. Talked to nacho for a bit about cephrir, and while he's admitted he's not great at readin cephrir (we both have a tendency to town-read him/be manipulated by him) and he's not interested in lynching cephrir today.

I disagree. His response actually spent quite a bit of time discrediting than addressing suspicion normally and his response
was
manipulative.
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Post Post #1817 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:35 am

Post by Solar Wind »

Why did you not initially post your concerns and said that I would?
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Post Post #1818 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:38 am

Post by Imperium »

Mine is gut. I said that.

I also said I was doing several things, didn't have time to go through, probably wouldn't if I did for a gut read.

You do that whole explaining thing. I knew you'd have several actual reasons.
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Post Post #1819 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:47 am

Post by Solar Wind »

I'm going to

UNVOTE:

for a bit as Ffery thought that his soft-claim could be indicative of town. I noticed it as well when he was responding although not wholly convinced that it is definitely coming from town. Would still like people to explain their townreads on Cephrir beyond a surface level.

Also have a feeling that since it is role madness, scum would almost certainly be fake-claiming some role as opposed to VT. As town, it is fairly meaningless. We all have roles.
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Post Post #1820 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:55 am

Post by Imperium »

A potential mea culpa.
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Post Post #1821 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:56 am

Post by Solar Wind »

In post 1820, Imperium wrote:A potential mea culpa.

This refers to what, exactly?
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Post Post #1822 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:00 pm

Post by Imperium »

In post 1816, Solar Wind wrote:
In post 1815, Imperium wrote:I'm still weary of cephrir but I liked his response to the case. Way lot less manipulative than I associate with scum!cephrir. Talked to nacho for a bit about cephrir, and while he's admitted he's not great at readin cephrir (we both have a tendency to town-read him/be manipulated by him) and he's not interested in lynching cephrir today.

I disagree. His response actually spent quite a bit of time discrediting than addressing suspicion normally and his response
was
manipulative.

He responded to your case on him. He discredited you a bit in pieces along the way, but not in a way that was out of the range of "cephrir-town addressing a push from someone he thinks is town" on him.
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Post Post #1823 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:01 pm

Post by Imperium »

It was manipulative if he was scum. It wasn't out of range for town behaviors.
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Post Post #1824 (ISO) » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:01 pm

Post by Imperium »

In post 1821, Solar Wind wrote:
In post 1820, Imperium wrote:A potential mea culpa.

This refers to what, exactly?



If I wanted to explain it, I would have.
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