(Hilariously) Unbalanced Mafia 2 [Over]

[Fluminator]

Are you scum Elk?

[theelkspeaks]

Are you scum Elk?

No. I'm finding shos and ProHawk the two scummiest players right now, and am interested in pursuing ProHawk more than shos A) due to the implied stronger sanity claim, and B) because I find ProHawk's response to his wagon scummy.

[Fluminator]

Is it just a coincidence your 2 strongest scum reads are the leading wagons?
Who else do you find scummy?

[theelkspeaks]

Is it just a coincidence your 2 strongest scum reads are the leading wagons?
Who else do you find scummy?

I'd say it's not a coincidence; players with claimed guilties are reasonable scumreads for all players, including myself.

Other scumreads would include the eyestott slot, Klingon, and to a lesser extent wisdom/Muffin/ika. So basically 3 tiers of scumreads.

[Fluminator]

Well, you were voting Shos before there was a guilty on him so that can't be the main reason you suspect him.
Could you refresh me on the case against Shos?

[Titus]

Citation needed on 1, 2, and 3. 4 I disagree especially when your considering lynching a cLaimed PR over a sanity verification. And 5 is a valid argument but not strong enough to sway me.

1. PV softclaims soft guilty on ProHawk. Shos should be saying, wtf...cops are questionable sanity. He should at least want to vet the claim.

2. Shos says he's town bc no counterwagon. PV then says ProHawk is actual scum. ISO PV with Shos. I can grab specfic posts when I get back.

3. Shos has not vetted a single claim beyond mine. That's too many posts to get. A cop should verify every claim, especially an after the fact miller claim.

4. Wrong. If Shos was town, the scums would be all over mislynching Shos and shooting/blocking me. That would eliminate both cops in a night. ProHawk's role is a double edged sword and could actually hurt town.

[ProHawk]

Elk, what would be a town response?

[Pirate Ika]

Citation needed on 1, 2, and 3. 4 I disagree especially when your considering lynching a cLaimed PR over a sanity verification. And 5 is a valid argument but not strong enough to sway me.

1. PV softclaims soft guilty on ProHawk. Shos should be saying, wtf...cops are questionable sanity. He should at least want to vet the claim.

2. Shos says he's town bc no counterwagon. PV then says ProHawk is actual scum. ISO PV with Shos. I can grab specfic posts when I get back.

3. Shos has not vetted a single claim beyond mine. That's too many posts to get. A cop should verify every claim, especially an after the fact miller claim.

4. Wrong. If Shos was town, the scums would be all over mislynching Shos and shooting/blocking me. That would eliminate both cops in a night. ProHawk's role is a double edged sword and could actually hurt town.

1) says who? says you? no we dont have to question it if we dont want to. you question yours so you lost your cred on it

2) the entire thing built out of your guilty. pooint moot

3) so? and no they dont, again your making up your own reason on why things must be true

4) again no. just sstuipd and wrong

[theelkspeaks]

To be honest, the case on shos before the guilty wasn't that strong - my day 1 case on him was based on asking for a summary instead of reading the game himself, post 163, and using a really weak tell (the <b> tagfail) to push in case in post 674. My suspicion of him led to my tracking him N1, and my results from that are questionable, especially with the JK claim afterwards, which explains both how awesome survived and how shos survived if they really did try to crosskill each other (regardless of whether one or both are town-aligned kills, I'm just using the word crosskill here for simplicity).

But the claimed guilty on him is a pretty good reason for both me and others to be on him, and in the absence of the claimed guilty I likely would have considered moving down my scumreads list to second or third tier, so it's not surprising that my top scumreads are also top wagons.

[Frightened inmate number3]

end today it sucks

[ProHawk]

Don't end today, elk is ignoring me

[Titus]

Citation needed on 1, 2, and 3. 4 I disagree especially when your considering lynching a cLaimed PR over a sanity verification. And 5 is a valid argument but not strong enough to sway me.

1. PV softclaims soft guilty on ProHawk. Shos should be saying, wtf...cops are questionable sanity. He should at least want to vet the claim.

2. Shos says he's town bc no counterwagon. PV then says ProHawk is actual scum. ISO PV with Shos. I can grab specfic posts when I get back.

3. Shos has not vetted a single claim beyond mine. That's too many posts to get. A cop should verify every claim, especially an after the fact miller claim.

4. Wrong. If Shos was town, the scums would be all over mislynching Shos and shooting/blocking me. That would eliminate both cops in a night. ProHawk's role is a double edged sword and could actually hurt town.

1) says who? says you? no we dont have to question it if we dont want to. you question yours so you lost your cred on it

2) the entire thing built out of your guilty. pooint moot

3) so? and no they dont, again your making up your own reason on why things must be true

4) again no. just sstuipd and wrong

So basically you are handwaiving here.

1) You are handwaiving my guilty because why? Everything I have said has been proven true about point 1. There's the ENTIRE HOOD. So yes I do. Stop raving.

2) This point has nothing to do with my guilty.

3) Yes. Claims are vetted is the general rule or do I get a double standard from you ika?

4) More handwaiving. Why is my analysis stupid and wrong? I know how to play scum. We all know that. So I think I am pretty damn wualified to say scum behavior does not match what is expected.

[shos]

no points in trying to talk sense into that one ^^^

[Titus]

Yeah I know. No point in talking sense into ika. I still have to try. However, if Klingon's so called slip is accurate and we have five factions we might not be looking at town majority anyway.

[Wisdom]

ika is not the one who needs to grow a brain

[shos]

ika is not the one who needs to grow a brain

[BlizZard]

ika is not the only one who needs to grow a brain

[Wisdom]

true, you do too.

[Awesome]

OKAY another thing doesn't make sense.

titus thinks that shos has the same role as her right? titus gets a guilty result on shos last night right? Titus votes her guilty result but claims it might not be accurate because insanity. then she picks up a crumb which makes her think her guilty result has the same role as she does and she switches from her (maybe insane result) to the supposed guilty result of the person she investigated and doesn't know is guilty or innocent.

Am I smoking crack here? Like this makes no sense to me.

I mean I fully admit if someone investigates me, I'll investigate as serial killer so sure, but the actions of these two make no sense whatsoever.

They make perfect sense to me.

That's because you're doing backbends to distort everything we've said in an effort to make us look like the scum we're not.

We were talking about what we appear as. Shos was saying appearing as Sk would appear as town.

Don't be daft.

Where does he say that?

check his iso. ask him in the neighborhood, like there was a whole big discussion about it.

And we made it VERY obvious throughout day 1 that we were miller.

You did? We must be playing two entirely different games then, because the possibility of you being a miller never came up at all during d1. If you were super obvious, as you claim, then there would not have been the clamoring to have you investigated.

Don't pull this hyperbole; there was no clamoring for me to be investigated.

People drop hints and think their reactions to things are obvious all the time. In retrospect it should be obvious, knowing what i've claimed now, to see our reactions to things yesterday and realize oh yeah that is obvious.

Interestingly enough, you're ignoring the posts I pull up which show our reactions. If you were actually reading the game looking for scum, you'd see those posts and go ahhh okay I see, but you're not. You're doing literal flips and you're cherry picking our posts to try to paint us as scum.

You should probably claim. I don't mean to omgus or anything, but I don't believe for one second your cherry-picking is town. I think town you is a bit more comprehensive than that. You're going in the pool of people I'm shooting tonight.

In response, Tammy claims SK miller vig.

Also compulsive, which she added on later. You can't forget that. I anticipate that she'll also be bulletproof by the time I reach page 160.

Yeah, claim in your next post before the end of day. If you're not something useful, I'm killing you tonight. If you want to live you should probably start working hard to get me lynched.

I literally pulled up the post and bolded and made large the post from yesterday where I told you the compulsive part of Toon Fighter's claim was not weird.

Why would that be? Oh gee willakers because we're compulsive.

You going der der der look they tacked that on it means their scum is just so mind numbingly stupid you can't actually believe that.

but their entry posts are a vote on shos and wanting to know what shos is (it's consistent with expecting something that did not happen).

If I was a vig and my target didn't die, my first thought would be protective role not "OMG he must be scum! We must flip and find out why he didn't die!". That's simply not a town thought process.

Considering I'm town, yes it is. I thought shos was the bp serial killer and that's why he didn't die.

[shos]

Awesome, I need to understand your thought process. realy, I do.

if you shoot someone and they don't die. what are the options?
1. busdrive
2. roleblock
3. doc
4. jailkeep
5. BP

why on earth would you jump straight up to 100%BP SK?

also, don't shoot bulba. why would you want him to claim? not enough viggable people in this game?

[Titus]

Something just occurred to me.

Why don't we lynch one of Shos ProHawk and have Awesome vig the other? That will put to rest the debate between me and Wisdom.

[Awesome]

I don't know what to think about Prohawk. He feels more like the way he's felt in the games where we've been town together than when he was scum in Tales of Vesperia.

But I don't know if that was an anomalous scum game or not because the entire scum team decided to jump on me. I doubt he'd take the same approach with me if he were scum again.

The jail keep makes sense for why my kill didn't go through. Just trying to figure out if it's town or scum.

I'd also like Pere to be clearer about his role and claim. I don't particularly just trust Pere on claims like this either. so :/

I still can't wrap my head around some of Titus' arguments but I'm not going to try.

I forgot about eyestott; that slot might make a good lynch. DGB needs to do something other than lalalala I'm town. I had another thought, but it left me. I'll try to remember later.

[Wisdom]

Something just occurred to me.

Why don't we lynch one of Shos ProHawk and have Awesome vig the other? That will put to rest the debate between me and Wisdom.

There are much better people than shos to shoot. We will know shos' alignment the moment your sanity gets confirmed.

[Titus]

Awesome, can you higlight something that is incomprehensible please?

Shos, why are you rehashing my arguments after I suggested them hundreds of pages ago and simultaneously telling me I need to grow a brain?

[Awesome]

Awesome, I need to understand your thought process. realy, I do.

if you shoot someone and they don't die. what are the options?
1. busdrive
2. roleblock
3. doc
4. jailkeep
5. BP

why on earth would you jump straight up to 100%BP SK?

also, don't shoot bulba. why would you want him to claim? not enough viggable people in this game?

I thought you were the SK to begin with. When I heard that you asked what you showed up to Mastin, I thought you were asking because you were the SK and wondered if it would come back guilty. So when you didn't die, I thought I was right and you were the SK.

You didn't die. I thought I could have been redirected, which is why I asked mastin for my kill flavor. She said stabbed, noone was stabbed, so not redirection most likely. You were a large wagon yesterday in a game that is multi ball, you were not a kill target for scum when you could easily be lynched the next day. Therefore you are not a kill target.

The end of day yesterday, I asked for my town reads top scum reads, so unless one of those scum reads were scum, I didn't think I'd be role blocked. Figured I'd be killed if people realized what I was based on that.

Jailkeep didn't dawn on me as a possibility.