Open 31 - Yoguraimee C9 (Game Over!) before 470

[Khelvaster]

Random Vote: J-Man

What is that name supposed to stand for? Jam Man?

[Khelvaster]

Vote:xyzzy for the bandwagon vote :p

People who joke about being scummy have a higher chance of actually being scum :p

[Khelvaster]

That was a piece of advice imparted upon me by the good denizens of scumchat. That said, this is still the random voting stage, so I am not saying xyzzy is scum by any means.

[Khelvaster]

Bandwagon vote: Vendagoat

That's joking about being scum

[Khelvaster]

Quick...everyone post screenshots of their role posts while erg0 is away :p

[Khelvaster]

Anyone want to post?

[Khelvaster]

Yogurt and Khelvaster are the 2 scum.

Wow...someone is really, really jumping to conclusions. Xyzzy reacted to my random vote with an attack on Yogurt, then OMGUS'd me for no good reason. It seems that what I said to him really struck a nerve. That is why I will

Confirm Vote: Xyzzy

Townies have no reason to jump to conclusions like xyzzy on the first page.

[Khelvaster]

HH, you really need to watch yourself. You jumped onto xyzzy pretty quickly...

[Khelvaster]

EBWOP: Never mind...I don't know what I'm thinking. I'm so used to being ignored that I thought listening to me was a scumtell. Forget my last post.

[Khelvaster]

mneme: My voting xyzzy was just the crap-excuse of a random post. It was xyzzy's wierd responses that intrigued me.

[Khelvaster]

when I said random post, I meant random vote.

[Khelvaster]

I second what yogurt just said. Vendagoat, how did you change your opinion between 1 post and 1 votecount. Did you mispost or something on post 50?

[Khelvaster]

That checks out for now. I'd enjoy an xyzzy today, but I'll need to look at you for tomorrow.

FoS: Vendagoat

[Khelvaster]

Good idea, vendagoat


HH: He definitely looks scumy. I really don't like the way he contributes nothing, FoS's xyzzy, then votes xyzzy. He hasn't done anything but that. I feel that if xyzzy turns out scum, HH is town, and vice versa.

J-man: He has been gone for a week. He seems slightly town, as he did take an interest in this thread working. The random vote and unvote seems ok by me, since it was more a prod than a real vote. He couldn't seriously seriously expect to get a BW on me with a random, unexplained vote.

Khev: Bit of crap logic, bit of dicking around. leaning towards scummy as well here.

Crap logic is acceptable as a basis for a random vote (if I go ahead and say, as my first random vote, 'vote xyzzy for BWing on his random,' that doesn't mean I am seriously voting him. BWing in random isn't a scumtell.)

Xyz: However, when the guy you voted for starts overreacting and blowing his top over the voter, then he might very well be scum. Let's not forget his memorable, elegantly presented argument against yogurt:

Yogurt, are you scum?
Don't avoid that question. Give me good reasons why I should think otherwise, because right now I'm pretty sure you are.

Yogurt: He hasn't done anything at all scummy, but at the same time xyzzy is screwing around WIFOMing with that yogurt accusation. I am undecided about yogurt, though leaning towards town.

[Khelvaster]

Mod: Could you dish out prods?

[Khelvaster]

fine for gods sake this game is going nowhere so im going to do something that is slighty unusual,

I am one of the two Cops

, last night i was unable to investagate mabye because there are tow of us? there now the scum better pipe up or i will actually agree with killing Lurkers.

Xyzzy seemed scummy, but had nothing definite. J-man is confirmed scum. In case you didn"t notice, WE HAD NO NIGHT 0. Now, I understand that uncounterclaimed d1 cop claims shouldn't be lynch-worthy, but I think an exception needs to be made here. There is no possible reason a real cop would have claimed cop on d1 under no pressure, then said he couldn't have done an investigation.

unvote, vote: Jman

[Khelvaster]

And vendagoat is trying to fuck around with the facts now. Seriously, how hard is it to know how to read instructions? You're obviously trying to confuse us if you are saying things like vendagoat just said.

Vote: Vendagoat

[Khelvaster]

@sefer: I voted that uncounterclaimed cop because he was talking about night 0.

[Khelvaster]

Wow, just wow. Khel you're really desperate for anything arn'tcha?

Let me rephrase that:

OMGUS!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, could someone give me a list of reasons they think I am scum? I really don't see what I've done that was so scummy. I said repeatedly that the beginning craplogic was done to instigate a response. Apart from that, I don't think there really anything said against me.

[Khelvaster]

And to those who said that lynching an uncounterclaimed cop made me scum: I thought claiming an investigation (or lack thereof) d0 when there was no d0 was a massive scumtell. There is no way a knowlegeable scum or knowlegeable townie could have used this for an argument. A scum or townie without knowlege would. The fact that I am townie doesn't mean I wouldn't screw up and think that was a scumtell.

[Khelvaster]

Vendagoat: It would be a good idea not to hammer me, mainly because I still haven't had a chance to see what the big deal about me is.

[Khelvaster]

I will seperate everything that vendagoat says about me from what he says about xyzzy, since I don't really have a reason to think xyzzy is town, while I do have a reason to think I am town . On to the defence:

Quick...everyone post screenshots of their role posts while erg0 is away :p

I've been told multiple times that humor is a scum tell. This is thin though, so let me get rolling.

Vendagoat, you are on a very thin leash with me. The main reason I am not voting you is so you won't OMGUS and hammer me. Look at why I am in the situation I am in: I said xyzzy's post, which was meant to be humorous, was a slight scumtell. You just said my post, which was humorous and completely unrelated to lynching or voting in any way, was a scumtell.

This next bit is DIRECT CONTRADICTION
Post 27

Wow...someone is really, really jumping to conclusions. Xyzzy reacted to my random vote with an attack on Yogurt, then OMGUS'd me for no good reason. It seems that what I said to him really struck a nerve. That is why I will

Confirm Vote: Xyzzy

Townies have no reason to jump to conclusions like xyzzy on the first page.

to post 39

HH, you really need to watch yourself. You jumped onto xyzzy pretty quickly...

and then in post 40 he tried to edit his way out of it.

EBWOP: Never mind...I don't know what I'm thinking. I'm so used to being ignored that I thought listening to me was a scumtell. Forget my last post.

Yeah, I was feeling pretty demoralized ATM because of some stuff happening in some other games. Nobody had listened to me, and we got put into a very bad position. It was something to do with me posting a very good case against someone, a townie listening to me and voting on the scum, and then getting lynched for "BWing." Notice the EBWOP--I realized that he was just agreeing with what I said and that it isn't necessarily a scumtell to agree with me. I admit that I screw up when I screw up--I don't go around hiding it like some other people in this game.

post 62

Unvote, Vote: Khelvaster

No explanation, just a vote and when I challenge him on what seems to be a random vote on page three, we get.
post 64

oh good there are people that actually watch this thread good,

my explination for that was to see if it was worth my time to actually give a thought to this game

:S and yes im sorry about being gone for a week RL calls. Khelvaster was the target for no reason other then he posted last so now on with mafia

Unvote

He admits he made a vote JUST BECAUSE!

You are an idiot. Seriously. He admitted to making a vote as a game-prod. There is nothing scummy about that--he retracted the vote as soon as a few people posted. That is pro-town more than anything else. You are seeming more and more scummy as I read through this analysis. Either state all of someone's defence or ignore it--cherry picking is bad.

Post 71
Now we get some yogurt...
Er actually maybe we just get a blurb from him. we haven't had more than a five word post from him since then. This man is lurking and LURKING HARD! We have had plenty of discussion, plenty of suspicion and this guy is laying back and letting us do all the work for him. Uh uh, that doesn't fly with me. I've noticed that scum pairs normally have one loudmouth and one quiet one. That right there is being quiet, 2 and half pages (approximately) of lurking.

You can't have noticed too much *glances at vendagoat's signup date*. Accusing players of lurking and trying to get them lynched is a scumtell. Asking a mod to prod them isn't.

And then we got this. Post 106

And vendagoat is trying to fuck around with the facts now. Seriously, how hard is it to know how to read instructions? You're obviously trying to confuse us if you are saying things like vendagoat just said.

Vote: Vendagoat

This, to me, seems like an OMGUS attack and I have no real idea where it came from. I gave everyone my thoughts and corrected myself, using this sites wiki. How did I misrepresent something? I need clarification and look I even said that in post 109 and I never got an answer.

I am sorry--I didn't see that post. Here is how: you were using arguments based off of your made-up fact that cops only get innocent-guilty results, and also trying to question cop sanity in an OPEN game.

[Khelvaster]

Vendagoat, you are on a very thin leash with me. The main reason I am not voting you is so you won't OMGUS and hammer me. Look at why I am in the situation I am in: I said xyzzy's post, which was meant to be humorous, was a slight scumtell. You just said my post, which was humorous and completely unrelated to lynching or voting in any way, was a scumtell.

So you're agreeing that humor is a scumtell? Thanks.

No, I am saying hypocrisy is. Telling me that I am wrong for doing something when you do it is a scumtell, regardless of whether or not the thing you're doing is actually wrong.

Yeah, I was feeling pretty demoralized ATM because of some stuff happening in some other games. Nobody had listened to me, and we got put into a very bad position. It was something to do with me posting a very good case against someone, a townie listening to me and voting on the scum, and then getting lynched for "BWing." Notice the EBWOP--I realized that he was just agreeing with what I said and that it isn't necessarily a scumtell to agree with me. I admit that I screw up when I screw up--I don't go around hiding it like some other people in this game.

This entire quote is nothing more than a dodge. It's not even an explanation, it's simply a dodge. Yes I noticed the EBWOP. And what if in one post you just came out admitted being scum and the next you EBWOP, are we just supposed to ignore it? No, for better or for worse, you said those things. This isn't a simple missed bracket for quotes, it was a complete and utter direct contradiction.

Yeah, and I realized what I said was wrong as soon as I said it. I said it without thinking through what I had said. I wasn't trying to be hypocritical, hence the EBWOP. If I were trying to deceive you, I wouldn't have done an EBWOP a minute after posting.

You are an idiot. Seriously. He admitted to making a vote as a game-prod. There is nothing scummy about that--he retracted the vote as soon as a few people posted. That is pro-town more than anything else. You are seeming more and more scummy as I read through this analysis. Either state all of someone's defence or ignore it--cherry picking is bad.

Ok fine let's go from your argument for a moment, just below this one. Then its also a mods responsibility to prod a game by deadlining it, not a player. As for cherry picking, its a necessity to get to the heart of the matter. People often dolly up dog shit with perfume, to make it seem better. Reading between the lines and discerning motives is this entire game.

So you admit that J-man is clearly town?

You can't have noticed too much *glances at vendagoat's signup date*. Accusing players of lurking and trying to get them lynched is a scumtell. Asking a mod to prod them isn't.

Everything in this game is a scumtell. Show me a town tell and then we will talk. This is a logical fallacy and thats as much as I will be responding to it. Oh and thanks for the mud slung at me. Yes I'm new.

Well, you just said that "from all you've noticed," implying that you have a lot of experience. Your observations on general trends isn't the best. I am not saying anything about your scumhunting abilities, just about your knowledge of scumtells.

I am sorry--I didn't see that post. Here is how: you were using arguments based off of your made-up fact that cops only get innocent-guilty results, and also trying to question cop sanity in an OPEN game.

post 101

Son of a bitch I never thought......

Wait a minute, doesn't a cop investigation just turn back a innocent or guilty verdict?

post102

Sorry about all the posts in a row.

The most common special role. The Cop can investigate a player each night and find out whether they are on the Scum or Pro-Town side. Depending on the variation, sometimes they can discover the role name as well.

So I guess this begs the question now if this is one of those variations.

I made no such arguments. Can you not be bothered to even read the game? The person who brought up the sanity question was J-MAN himself! Add to this the fact that the WIKI agrees with me. Pro-town or Scum. Innocent or guilty and SOMETIMES the role.

Yes, you did make those arguments, as you'd have noticed if you bothered to read your posts that you used in your defense. Also, I focused on you instead of J-man because J-man has contributed much more to this game than you have.

Also, regarding xyzzy, I think that you are trying to make everything seem split between me and him because he is your scumbuddy. You will forget him tomorrow, but your distancing will be so good nobody will think he was scum.

[Khelvaster]

id was wrong as soon as I said it. I said it without thinking through what I had said. I wasn't trying to be hypocritical, hence the EBWOP. If I were trying to deceive you, I wouldn't have done an EBWOP a minute after posting.

So you admit that J-man is clearly town?

Yes, you did make those arguments, as you'd have noticed if you bothered to read your posts that you used in your defense. Also, I focused on you instead of J-man because J-man has contributed much more to this game than you have.

Also, regarding xyzzy, I think that you are trying to make everything seem split between me and him because he is your scumbuddy. You will forget him tomorrow, but your distancing will be so good nobody will think he was scum.

First response is wifom
Second

How exactly is

No, I am saying hypocrisy is [scummy]. Telling me that I am wrong for doing something when you do it is a scumtell, regardless of whether or not the thing you're doing is actually wrong.

WIFOM at all? I am pretty sure that large amounts of hypocrisy, especially when not fixed by an EBWOP right afterwards, are scumtells. This is a fact, not WIFOM at all.

part is also wifom especially this phrase; "If I were trying to deceive you, I wouldn't have done an EBWOP a minute after posting.'

This is a piece of stupidity. A real gem you posted there, Vendagoat. There is no possible way I can decieve you into going after HH if I EBWOP and say I wasn't thinking clearly and I realize my arguments are flawed, so not to take them too seriously. I was pointing out flaws which some newer people *coughyoucough* might not have noticed.

No I do not make the statement that he is 100% town, quit putting words in my mouth.

You admitted that he was town by responding to my question about why you thought J-man was still scum with a completely irrelevant answer.

Same thing for the next, I never questioned his sanity, I questioned what the return of the investigation would be and I found my answer in the wiki and quoted it.

Yeah, asking about the return is questioning his sanity, and quoting a wiki when you already know everyone's role is trying to distract the town.

As for XYZ, I'll vote him right now.

Then why vote for me in the same paragraph as saying this?

Your arguments are twists and your attacks are baseless.

You should really look at your own arguments before saying things about others'. Also, defending yourself is pretty cool, from what I hear.

You have turned into a gigantic OMGUS. You are hereby my front runner for a scum, Xyz directly behind you.

You think maybe the OMGUS is because you actually are scum?

[Khelvaster]

EBWOP: I just noticed someone asked me to claim. I am a vanilla townie.

[Khelvaster]

Unvote: Vendagoat

I don't feel comfortable with a lynch until I hear from everyone.

[Khelvaster]

EBWOP: Especially with 7 players, if someone gives a crap excuse, hammers, and then it turns out vendagoat was town, we are in deep trouble.

[Khelvaster]

EBWOP again: I'll vote for vendagoat again in 24 hours if he does nothing to dissuade me.

[Khelvaster]

Sefer: we don't want -too- many claims -- as a mass claim would let the scum kill the doctor straight-off, then pick off the cops -- yet as a town we probably do better with at least one investigation before we let the doctor snuff it. Even a townie claim would let the scum 100% a doc or cop -- not ideal.

This is a good post. A very good post.


Also, I didn't know that someone unvoted vendagoat--I hadn't reloaded this page for a while until I posted. What mneme said before about new players having long, pointless arguments sounds to me what I've done in at least three of my games, and in all of those games I ended up distracting the town for at least a page (me vs. Mightfireball, me vs. Battle Mage, and now me vs. Vendagoat.)
I didn't realize how disruptive this was until mneme posted--it just hit home to me. I will leave my vote off vendagoat for now, since looking back I realize we both descended into such murky logic that it was quite possible for him to be town, since murky logic and

ad hominem

attacks tend to lead to more of the same. I still think vendagoat's scum, but I don't feel comfortable revoting him until my mind clears of our conflict.

[Khelvaster]

J-man, who would you say today's lynch is, then?

[Khelvaster]

Hmm...I just read your posts, J-man, and you're totally right in the way that mneme is strategically lurking. I looked back, and his vote to put vendagoat at lynch -1 was unjustified. He could easily be scum here.

Vote:mneme

[Khelvaster]

unvote
vote: vendagoat

There are actually a small enough number of vanilla townies in this game that "vanilla townie" is a useful claim.

unvote

Forgot vend had 2 votes on him. Don't want to go back to khel -- I'm thinking either vend or xyz are most interesting.

And this is all mneme had to say about this matter. Note that he isn't rescinding his nonexistant suspicions of vendagoat--he still says he thinks vendagoat is scummy (for no real reason, apparently,) but that he doesn't want to put vendagoat at -1.

[Khelvaster]

How mneme is scummy:

You OMGUS'd me after I voted you for all your lurking. You seemed fine with me, then I voted you.

Yeah, your post was a good post, and you were strategically lurking. Those two are not exclusive. You were lurking, then you made one good post. I was commenting on your post, not your general behavior. You are saying I swung from a comment on your single post to a completely opposite comment on you. This is a really, really scummy justification for a lynch.

Also, you are pushing a BW on me without committing yourself really. Your weak excuses, especially the "lynching khel doesn't hurt the town that much" is really, really bad. One goodpost does not exempt you from suspicion, especially when the suspicious action is a blatant attempt to bandwagon with no good reason posted.

Even if mneme does post more trumped-up justification for lynching me, his position won't really be helped. He was trying to lynch me without enough evidence. Now he will search and try to find scumtells where none exist as justification. It's too late now. Trying to lynch without justification is a crime itself, even if you provide some after being called out for it.

Mod: Could you please prod people?

[Khelvaster]

Vendagoat, Yogurt, what are your opinions on mneme?

[Khelvaster]

Vote: Sefer

I really, really have an issue with that post. You want the cops to go ahead and reveal who they are.

1. Khelvaster, Townie
2. J-man, Cop
3. Person who claims cop, Cop
4. XXX, townie or doc
5. XXX, townie or doc
6. XXX, scum
7. XXX, scum


Now, I don't know about you, but I certainly have a problem with giving the scum a 50% chance of killing our doc tonight. The only reason someone would want the other cop to claim today would be to give them a high chance of NKing the doc.

[Khelvaster]

Sure, we went from a 1/3 chance of the doc being killed in the claim cop/no-cop scenario to a 5/12 chance

(1/2 chance of doc kill*1/2 chance of you actually being town +1/3 chance of doc kill*1/2 chance of you actually being scum)

, so our chances of keeping the doc alive through night one dropped by 1/12. If we'd done this before you'd claimed, it would have been better, but you guys didn't want to do it then. I'm interested that you decided to vote me rather than the person who brought the idea up again, though.

I thought you brought this idea up...*looks and sees it's mneme*

Unvote

FoS Sefer, mneme

I really dislike the way you started throwing around probabilities like that. I think it was mini 162 where someone got in a heap of trouble for making up random percentages. In mafia, I can't ever be 50% scum or 50% town. I could be 100% scum, 100% town, 100% doc, or 100% cop. I actually am 100% townie.
Each player has a 5/7 chance of being townie and a 2/7 chance of being scum to an outside observer. Everyone is alive atm. There are no wierd claim patterns yet--I am the only townie, J-man is the only cop. To every town-aligned, each other player has a 2/3(4/6) chance of being town and a 1/3(2/6) scum. I don't see where you've been getting these 50% figures for me from--care to enlighten us?

[Khelvaster]

50% was based on knowing that you must be either scum or a townie; there are two of each in this setup, so there's a 50/50 chance (2/4) of being either. It would only be 2/6 scum if you had a chance of being a doc or cop.

If I were doc, I could be claiming townie so that the mafia don't go after me. If I were, I would come out on d2.

[Khelvaster]

That would be a really dumb move to make, in that if one of the townies claimed after, the second would be forced to claim as well, meaning one of the townies or the doc would almost certainly be lynched. I'm assuming you're not that dumb.

And this is exactly why a massclaim is a bad idea.

[Khelvaster]

EBWOP: Wtf, that was incredibly late. I didn't see a page 9 on this topic, sorry. I'll go read the last page and then do something useful.

[Khelvaster]

If I were scum, I would not have pushed so hard for something that puts me on the suspect list.

YB is obviously one of the scum, regardless of what he claims...

And xyzzy lines up all the pegs of scumtell. First he does a blatant WIFOM, and then he says, with hardly any evidence, that YB is scum. It seems like a scum is panicking.

Vote: xyzzy

[Khelvaster]

Vend: the true odds (assuming no misplay by the scum or the doc) of lynching the doc is 0 -- thus, the odds of lynching scum randomly among the non-cops is one in 3 -- the same as that among the cops (but without a chance of killing a cop).

How are the odds of lynching the doc contingent on a misplay by the scum at all? Also, wouldn't the unclaimed person who was scum claim doc to avoid a lynch?

I wrote a post doing the math on it. But since it involved describing the various possible misplays by scum, I don't think I'll post it without a good reason (I mailed it to myself instead). Why shouldn't the scum do their own homework?

This is very, very suspicious. You are sounding way too much like scum.

(the simple answer is that if we start running the doc up, the doc should claim. I'm not going to post the various possible scum tactics involved here, because, as I mention above, doing so helps the scum more than it helps the town).

And why exactly wouldn't the doc claim here? I am a 3-month-old player, and I can tell you why (barring any extreme stupidity) YB definitely won't claim cop, why we definitely won't lynch a doc today, and (as a corrolary of these two) why there will definitely be 3 townie claims, 3 cop claims, and a doc claim if we massclaim, something which seems almost certain to happen.

In short, you are hiding things which even a noob can see. This seems like a scum trying to act like a townie without giving away too much information about his buddies in the process.

Unvote, Vote: Muerrto

As a sidenote, nobody jumped on the lynch-the-cop. If anybody else had put their vote on xyzzy, I would have immediately attacked that person and not ceased until they were a lifeless corpse. As it is, vendagoat most likely is scum. However, I think that it is prudent to wait until tomorrow to go lynching any of the cops--xyzzy also screwed up quite a bit with that post that Vendagoat won't stop posting. The reason is that, without a cop lynch, we will automatically get our d2 lynch.

We need to have

J-man investigates xyzzy, who investigates Vendagoat, who investigates J-man

or,

J-man investigates Vendagoat, who investigates xyzzy, who investigates J-man.

The target of the cop who is reported innocent will be our d2 lynch, no question asked.

[Khelvaster]

Unvote, Vote: Muerrto

I was getting confused between this game and mafia 474, where I had intended to vote Muerrto. Sorry about that.

Unvote

And why exactly wouldn't the doc claim here? I am a 3-month-old player, and I can tell you why (barring any extreme stupidity) YB definitely won't claim cop,

Simply? You'd be wrong.

Possiblities:

YB is a cop. YB should claim cop.
YB is a non-cop townie: YB should -not- claim cop.
YB is scum: it's complicated. I see no reason to give YB advice here.

This would imply both scum went cop. If both scum claimed cop, then we win. Since there were 3 cop claims, YB can't be cop, assuming optimal play from everyone.

Um, no.

We will not have a doc claim if we run up a townie.

We will not have a doc claim if we run up a scum and he decides not to gambit a doc claim figuring on WIFOM gambit instead (ie, if scum will always false-claim doc, then scum should not claim doc).

We will not have a doc claim if we get four cop claims -- at that point, there's no reason for the doc to claim, nor will there be.

1. If we massclaim, the doc will claim. If not, we might run him up instead of a townie.

2. You and I both know that the scum will claim doc because, if nothing else, he will out the real doc too. We will have to wait for a real counterclaim before proceeding with the lynch--otherwise, it might very well be that we end up lynching the doc.

3. We won't get 4 cop claims. This would make scum lose.

If YB isn't scum, I'm guessing you are, actually -- your play has been wild, random, and not actually useful for catching scum, moreover, you argued against a tactic that has drastically improved our odds. But newb is at least as likely, and unlike YB, you comitted, which is significant.

I have never played an open game before. I have only played minis. Only after having seen your first analysis did I fully grasp how different these two are. I immediately recanted

No. It doesn't matter who xyzzy, vend, and j-man investigate, as long as they investigate cops.

A single investigation will give us two innocent and one guilty. The two cops who agree on real cops. The one who disagrees is scum.

Oh yeah, you are right. I was thinking that if people A and B were to investigate C, and C investigates B, but A is scum, you wouldn't get a guaranteed scum result. I just tried to formulate that as my counterargument, then I realized that what you said was right (as long as nobody tries investigating themselves ).

And...your "trap" on xyzzy? feels more like scum backpeddaling to me.

If anyone had fell into my trap, I doubt you'd be saying this. I can't really defend myself against this suspicion of yours except to say that I am a townie and I was trying to trap xyzzy. There's nothing really I could use as evidence that wouldn't be WIFOM.

[Khelvaster]

Mod: Votecount, please

[Khelvaster]

Let's wait to see what YB has to say before hammertime.

[Khelvaster]

Yeah, YB. Nice defense you posted there...

That was a really, really scummy post. You just tried to deflect an imminent hammer, instead of defending yourself. You also want to try and bait J-man into OMGUSing you and lynching you, thus making us suspect him d2. Yeah...this really doesn't fly with me. GG, YB.

Vote: YogurtBandit

1 down, 1 to go.

[Khelvaster]

I love how Seifer wants the scum to win by putting his vote on a townie (which there ought to be 3 claims for) and not on the nonscum cop.

I am so angry right now I can barely see straight. I let a major slip go because I thought a new player had made a mistake. I actually bought into his act of a stupid newbie. God damnit! I can't believe that j-man, you actually drew me in and hooked me.

Yah a real newbie alright, friggen role-fishing scum.

I...

am scum, because I have been a consistant scumbag

^^^^^corrected

First of all, that post of his makes no sense. I don't see how J-man hooked him in or anything.
Look at my case against Vendagoat:

Vendagoat first votes saying something is "more wild than rational." This is the shittiest excuse for a lynch I've ever heard. Vendagoat then realizes xyzzy is at -1, unvotes, then revotes in 24 hours, still without a decent explanation.

He then tries to make a case against J-man, when there was only 1 cop claim, that because J-man claimed cop in an OPEN game, he was scum. Seriously, these are a heap of bad excuse lynches. Maybe if vendagoat were trying to be pro-town, he would have aknowledged that he was wrong. But no, he keeps on in his stubborn, scummy fashion.

I have a massive problem with the way that, after a post talking about how bad J-man is, he says

(outside of game tip)
Giving up is almost an automatic lynch. I've read it dozens of times and had it done to me once as well.
(ok back to game)

Vendagoat is a fucking lunatic, and he is a crappy scum too. I suggest we lynch him on the spot.

I'm going to go cool off now, before I just write a string of expletives.

FUCK!

Wow...this has to be the lamest thing I have ever seen.

[Khelvaster]

My cop tells throughout the game.*snip*

Only a scum would need to go around displaying coptells.

Now as for the reason I am so pissed, I've since calmed, is that I completely and totally bought into j-man's "ineptitude". It was all a lie and I feel betrayed, I mean at the end of the day this is just a game and all, but I haven't been played like that in some time. If you want me to show how and why I bought into this I will, but I'm still a little mad and its rather embarrassing. I'll do it if you want, I'd just rather not..

I highly doubt that you have anything meaningful. If you did, you would have posted it now. *Waits to see what kind of crap comes out of vendagoat.* You are inept--inept at being scum, that is. J-man is cop hands-down.

[Khelvaster]

Wow...this was an amazing game. I had absolutely no hope at all that Venda and I would manage to pull off a scum win. We got really lucky with xyzzy being the only cop to have gone onto the YB wagon. Otherwise, if the doc had gotten his protect in, we would have been toast.

[Khelvaster]

Please Sefer, no more painfully misdone stastics.

I'm kicking myself for not following statistics- once Khel claimed town I knew he had a 2/3 chance of being scum (since there were 2 scum and one other townie.

No--the number of other scum had nothing to do with the fact that I was town. D1, there was nobody else claiming townie-town, so that wasn't really an issue. If you had gone and lynched me, there would have been a 1/3 chance of me being scum, as you didn't know who the doc was. D2, you knew I was scum. 2/3 has nothing to do with this.

It's an interesting setup that more or less forces a mass claim day one, since anyone who's near lynch should claim and it won't take many claims to start being countered. One scum claiming town and one should always claim cop, as you guys did this game, gives maximum number of people that could be scum, which is probably the best strategy.

I agree totally.

The way we did day one, town automatically would win if the scum didn't kill a cop night one (this works so long as a cop isn't lynched), meaning if the doctor survives in addition to cops theres a 1/3 chance of the scum losing no matter what. If a cop does get killed N1, there's a 50/50 shot for either side to win (following mneme's excellent strategy of lynching one of the remaining cops). So scum actually have a high chance of losing in this setup; so long as a claimed townie is lynched, even if it isn't scum, scum lose 1/3 of the time N1 (from failing to kill a cop); 2/3 of the time they have a 50/50 shot, giving them a 2/3 chance of losing even if they aren't lynched D1. Congradulations, scum, for overcoming the odds.

Thanks--I also had a fairly large problem with the setup. If the doc were changed to something like a survivor, each side would have a fairly even chance of winning, given random lynches.

[Khelvaster]

Yeah, but only 1 scum would claim townie. There was one confirmed scum as cop and one confirmed scum as townie. There wasn't a question of that.