Newbie 1572 - Chicken Parmigiana Mafia (Over)

[ika]

see thats the problem with your answer to me, to me its all objecitve speaking.

While you may say thats how you do it as mindset i want to to hard lock someone, dont say "i would shoot lurker" make it spcific as possible and justify why that lurker out of them all. the very essence of saying "shoot luker for ABC reason" vs "shoot Player X (who is lurker) for ABC reason" you stating a lurker is still to em a copout and does not answer the question. if you answered with "a lurker" form the get go instead of having the pointless banter, i would of followed up with "name a lurker and name why to kill them"

im already done fighing this and done playing with the "im scummy for my play" or "im scummy for X" and defdning myself of what i see as shitty reaosns

[Drixx]

Well ika, if I were scum and my partner and I agreed we should kill a lurker, I would have re-read the thread and figured out which one would give the absolute least possible information to the town. This is the problem with your question. You're asking all of us to say who we would have put a kill out on, but there's no useful information to be gleaned from it. If all of us (including you) gave a name and reasons, then that's 9 smokescreens for the scum to use. The kill this coming night phase will be worthless on the information front if everyone answers your question with the specificity you are demanding.

I answered the underlying question behind the question you actually asked. I gave you my scum thought process and took the time to think like scum. Unfortunately that's wasted effort at this point. Trying to figure out what scum are thinking is a pointless exercise without a kill to give any bounds to possible motive. At this point, one could posit any conceivable possibility and there's nothing to support or reject such suppositions. After there's a kill is the proper time to try and get townies to think like scum and try and figure out the likely motives for the kill and then from there postulate the most likely killer(s) to fit the victim and likely motives.

And even then, it's only a somewhat useful because it assumes the scum are acting rationally and didn't just randomize their kill. Any unorthodox scum motivation defeats it and any frame job defeats it, because a frame job is by definition completely WiFoM. There's no way to know, without a genuine cop claim, whether the person is being framed or whether they are scum and did the kill to make it look like they're being framed.

So ... in the end ... your question simply helps scum and has no utility to the town. I ask you again to explain the utility value to the town.

[ika]

but your still avoiding the question, towns have no "partner" therfore they can think for themselfs. you keep trying to avoid directly answering it with even more WIFOM.

"well i have a partner"
"well logicaly this should happen"
"well this and that"

thats not telling me your mindset and really give out even more WIFOM and only more reason to hidner dicussion

[ika]

the fact you are still stuggling to jsut answer the question directly gives me more of an idea that you are very consoius.

town should have the lack of conusis on stuff and hsould be able to answer it fluently w/o so much trouble. even i the reason/ideal behind it is bad and that ti /may/ give scums an advantage somehow doesnt change the fact that you cant give out a straight answer and jsutify it

[Drixx]

No town player should give a specific answer to that question. The only utility value derived from answers to that question belongs firmly to scum. Your thinking is so brutally awful right now it's unbelievable. Scum are the most likely people to just answer your question because they know it's not helpful to town. You are pushing people to help the scum wincon, and then

calling them scum

when they are smart enough to realize that doing as you ask has zero benefit for town. I've seen some awful mafia play, but what you're doing right now takes the cake for worst play ever. I can't decide if the play would be worse if you are scum or worse if you are town. It's really super bad either way though.

As far as I'm concerned, you're the lynch today, but not until some of these inactive people get off their backsides and contribute to the game.

[ika]

so you pushing a policy lynch on me now?

again when you add in all your reaosns you make even more smokescreen to hide behind, if you jsut did the basic thing to ebgin with all of this could of been blown over and we wouldnt have this battle now.

my question started as "who would you kill n1 and why"

you decided to add in 500 other thing to the equation to make it overly complicated and make huge craps about it and still not answer my question directly

[Drixx]

You are playing literally the worst mafia game I've ever seen anyone play, no matter what your actual alignment is. Yes, you're a policy lynch now.

If I had answered your question, it would have had zero utility for the town and at least some utility for the scum team. If more than one of us had been dumb enough to answer your question, it would have had a distinct negative utility for the town and a probable game winning utility for the scum. Scum teams dream of someone doing something so stupid as you did (and continue to do) with that question.

[Drixx]

Requesting Prod for: Zombiekittie, Bitmap, Pramitz

[DeasVail]

Vote Count 2.02

ika (4)- Debonair Danny DiPietro, Drixx, BRantz, Diego1487

[L-1]

Pramitz (1)- numberQ
Drixx(1)- ika

Not voting: zombiekitty, Pramitz, Bitmap

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Prodding

Pramitz
(Zombiekitty and Bitmap still have time before being due for a prod)

Deadline

22nd February, 4pm AEDT. This is in (expired on 2015-02-22 01:11:56).

[Bitmap]

I'm going to re-read the thread tonight.

[Drixx]

@ika - By the way, you had a really simple defense open to you, which was only prevented by your pride. You could simply have admitted that you didn't have some clever reason or plan behind the question and that you threw it up on a whim with some nebulous idea that maybe scum might trip on it. Town is much more likely to post on impulse without thinking everything through and making sure everything adds up. Scum are generally more cautious and don't post on a whim. They re-read things and make sure that what they're posting fits and is consistent with the idea of a town player they are attempting to project into the game.

Had you simply said something like "You know what, I didn't really think that question through. The only real thought I had was maybe scum might trip on it." or something like that, swallowed your pride and admitted it was a bad question with no town value ... the pressure probably drops (at least from me, and I suspect from others). Instead, you doubled down with this insistence that you had some clearly reasoned purpose to the question which would be ruined if you shared it. Since your "reason" was an incomprehensible mess of a post, I think we all know that wasn't true. So you doubled down on a bad play and got snotty about it to boot.

The ball is in your court. You've soft claimed town win condition. You haven't made an outright claim of anything. If you actually are town, please consider that three of the four people who could hammer you are significantly inactive this day phase. It would be of fairly high value to the town for you to swallow your pride and for us to avoid mislynch (presuming you are what you claim to be). Obviously it's too late for you to use the out that you had open to you before you dug in and made the situation worse, but I have faith that an experienced player who is legitimately town can figure out a way off the ledge.

I'll be around whilest I work in the office today, refreshing occasionally.


@Bitmap, @Pramitz, @Zombiekitty - We've had a no kill night already. It would be super nice if we didn't squander that opportunity. It would be really nice if you guys made some significant contribution sooner than later. Thanks in advance.

[numberQ]

Wow Drixx, you're really laying into him. While I mostly agree with a lot of what you say, it's just a game man. You've made your point.

[Drixx]

Wow Drixx, you're really laying into him. While I mostly agree with a lot of what you say, it's just a game man. You've made your point.

That last post was meant to inspire him to re-evaluate what he's doing. If he really is town and he continues to respond the way he is, do you think he makes it out of today alive? If; however, he's town and changes his approach from "I dare you!" to something convincingly townie, then he can help his win condition and avoid using up a mislynch.

[BRantz]

Wow Drixx, you're really laying into him. While I mostly agree with a lot of what you say, it's just a game man. You've made your point.

Drixx is being pretty nice actually. A hell of a lot nicer than most people are in arguments like that anyway.

@ika: You aren't even going to acknowledge anything I said about you? Oh wait, thats right, you think any reason people think you are scum is bullshit.

[zombiekitty]

@Drixx what really is your read on ika right now? Because on your post 360, I'm getting this sense that you really do believe he's town and just wants him to admit to his mistake(?). It's not actually you reading him as scum.

Im kind of reading the posts backwards, so will be back later until I finish reading up the rest of the posts and find out why people are suddenly voting for ika.

Im also kind of turned off about the fact it's like day 1 all over again and no flips or kills for information.

[Drixx]

@Drixx what really is your read on ika right now? Because on your post 360, I'm getting this sense that you really do believe he's town and just wants him to admit to his mistake(?). It's not actually you reading him as scum.

Im kind of reading the posts backwards, so will be back later until I finish reading up the rest of the posts and find out why people are suddenly voting for ika.

Im also kind of turned off about the fact it's like day 1 all over again and no flips or kills for information.

Nothing has changed my read on ika. 360 is directed at ika completely on what seems like a very remote off chance that he's actually town. Every response he's given has been scummy. If he actually is town (he soft claimed town win condition), then he needs to take a different approach than the one he's currently taking, which seems like an awful lot of nonsense and third grade spiteful tantrum. Only scum or someone being spiteful would take the stance ika has. No matter what ika's alignment is, his response doesn't help him. If he's scum then he should have done something similar to what I pointed out in 360. If he's town, he should also have done something similar to that. His play makes no sense for any alignment in a newbie game setup. The only role I can think of which would make his posts/actions this day phase make any sense would be Village Idiot, and that's not on the table.

He has basically said, and I'm paraphrasing here, "I'm town and you are all stupid for not understanding my play and I am not going to explain or defend myself in any rational way. Instead, I'm going to instigate my own lynch so I can harm you for daring to vote for me when I look totally scummy because that hurts my feelings and I want to say 'I told you so' after the game." So long as he continues to behave the way he has, he's a policy lynch.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Im also kind of turned off about the fact it's like day 1 all over again and no flips or kills for information.

So what, you're supposed to lynch on day one as well. Do you usually open day one complaining about not having any information?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If he actually is town (he soft claimed town win condition)

Why is this a thing that needs to be mentioned? Do you think there's anyone who wouldn't do that under pressure?

[Bitmap]

So some general thoughts.

I think DDD and Drixx is town.

I find ika being really odd and posturing that he possibly knows more than he should know.

zombiekitty is still in this game?

I still have gut scum read on Diego.

One thing that did really stick out was this post:

Wow Drixx, you're really laying into him. While I mostly agree with a lot of what you say, it's just a game man. You've made your point.

Why would you say this as town? This is appeasy as fuck.

[Bitmap]

Oh yeah,

@ika:

What happened to your DDD scum read?

[ika]

Oh yeah,

@ika:

What happened to your DDD scum read?

it still there.

[ika]

@ika: You aren't even going to acknowledge anything I said about you? Oh wait, thats right, you think any reason people think you are scum is bullshit.

quote? or link to post

[ika]

also if drixx was paying attento to me he would already know my role

[Bitmap]

Oh yeah,

@ika:

What happened to your DDD scum read?

it still there.

And you think Drixx is a larger scum read?

[Bitmap]

VOTE: numberQ