Mini 1642: The Burning (GAME OVER FLAMES HAVE ENGULFED TOWN)

[MonkeyMan576]

Why are you trying to create a 1 v 1?

[Boonskiies]

Because one of you are scum. I'd rather a monkey lynch, but no one seems to like that.

[MonkeyMan576]

That's nothing but OMGUS.

[MonkeyMan576]

Anyways, Toon is posting in other games and is purposely avoiding posting in this one so he doesn't implicate his scum buddies. He is obvscum.

[Flames682]

Votecount 2.10

Toon Fighter - 4 (MonkeyMan576, acryon, pieguyn, eektor)

acryon - 4 (Cheetory6, Toon Fighter, Formerfish, Elbirn)

Elbirn - 2 (RadiantCowbells, Boonskiies)

With

10

alive, it's

6

to lynch.

Day Two's deadline is Thursday, February 19, @ 8:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2015-02-19 20:30:00).

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not lynching toon or monkey and I don't like how Boon wants either of those lynches.

My lynchpool is between Elbirn/Acryon/Pie rn.

[pieguyn]

This is the kind of shit that I knew I was going to have to deal with that was demotivating my reread q.q
This is, on the surface, one of the scummiest looking posts I've ever seen. Lol.
I think I'm an idiot because my reaction is kind of "this is too bad to be scum. There's no way scum would say something this ridiculous."
Stuff like this doesn't make me hate the idea of a Toon lynch and I can understand how anyone would want it, but it just feels kind of too easy.

Okay.

actually, hold the fuck on.

TF's whole reason for you being scum was that you were taking advantage of the VDA/copper shitstorm. but there was (*again*) absolutely no follow-through with it after both of them flipped town. like, he had you in his MM scumteam, but then after he started pushing MM as town he went straight to Elbirn and...... forgot all about it?

@TF, explain this.

[pieguyn]

this is my major problem with TF.

he fucking forgets about all of his reads. MM doesn't make sense, but his posting is at least internally consistent; TF's is not. there's no consistency anywhere and he's blatantly acting.

[MonkeyMan576]

What exactly do you think doesn't make sense from me pie? Maybe I can clarify.

[pieguyn]

What exactly do you think doesn't make sense from me pie? Maybe I can clarify.

most of your play in general

as just one example, on a playstyle level, I dislike the way you react to pressure. it is good play to directly answer questions/cases against you instead of deflecting in the way that you do. the point is that I don't think most of what TF is doing this game can be easily explained via playstyle.

[pieguyn]

I am playing so bad this game. I had weird feelings about Elbirn following the flip, and didn't particularly like some of the way he handled questions and responses today, but now I think he's town. Most of my scum-read on him was related to that and gut, so I went back through his ISO to find what about it was actually pinging me, and I found some things, especially from D1 that make no sense as Elbirn-scum given Copper/Victor/Futan-town. The way he questions aspects of the wagons D1 seem very town. Even his reason for the compromise lynch of Victor in 728 makes a lot of sense.

. . .

I'm looking through this and the only time you addressed Elbirn D2 up to that point was.... when you called him out for asking you terrible questions. and you just told me you'd be reluctant to call that an alignment tell and that it was mostly play style. the only other thing I noticed is where you said his Boon post wasn't backed up by a Boon vote, but I'm guessing that itself wouldn't be a strong enough reason for a scum read.

is there more to this that I'm missing? if there is, elaborate.

But I quoted his follow-up because it wasn't a good answer for it. This question from Toon just makes zero sense as town. If Toon is town, then he is telling Elbirn to engage in a thought process that is absolutely a complete waste of time and energy. Why would you ask someone to give you associative tells based on an alignment-red that you

know

is incorrect? From a scum-perspective, this kind of question allows Toon/other scum to have extra information on where Toon's reads are at. There is literally zero town reason to ask this question.

disagree. the town reason for asking that is to make sure Elbirn is *actually* legitimately scum hunting and forming a complete picture of the game; while it would necessarily be wrong, cases usually say more about the person making the case than the person the case is about.

I'm assuming you meant Elbirn's reads. why would scum specifically focus on getting reads from Elbirn? usually "fishing out reads" isn't actually done often in practice, and when it is it's usually done to someone who's perceived as a large threat (and no offense but I don't exactly think Elbirn fits here).

I still don't follow your logic here.

[pieguyn]

@ToonFighter, redirecting this queston to you. You said yesterday that Cheety is likely scum with Vic-town and Copper-town. Why didn't you follow up on that? You haven't pushed Cheeto, voted him, asked him any questions, or anything today. Instead you started the day voting Monkey, and then me. Why?

oh lol, it seems I've reached the same conclusion as Elbirn.

Also, recently when he asked someone's opinion on who his partners would be if he flips scum. Why would town ever ask something like that?

again, I don't like this

I think a lot of people are using TF asking this as an easy thing to take a potshot at, without critically thinking about it. what do you think the scum motivation is in asking that question?

I'm also wondering who you think the scum lining TF up for lynch are, and why you'd get back onto the TF wagon at the request of someone you think is possible scum if you thought scum was lining TF up for lynch.

[Elbirn]

I'm not lynching toon or monkey and I don't like how Boon wants either of those lynches.

My lynchpool is between Elbirn/Acryon/Pie rn.

Why did you do a complete 180 on Toon? I really don't get it. D1 you said the scumteam was Toon/Victor/Cheeto. You then proceeded to declare Toon off limits with no further investigation. Wha? Why? And what happened to your Cheeto read? I don't disagree with it, but you seem very flippant with those D1 reads.

Your scumread on me seems to be entirely based on my end of D1. Which..Well you already know my feelings about that. But have you, idk, maybe possibly considered reevaluating your stance on me? Maybe read my D2 posts instead of being so obstinate?

I also don't get your Pie scumread. Elaborate?

[Elbirn]

I'm assuming you meant Elbirn's reads. why would scum specifically focus on getting reads from Elbirn? usually "

fishing out reads

" isn't actually done often in practice, and when it is it's usually done to someone who's perceived as a large threat

(and no offense but I don't exactly think Elbirn fits here

).

I still don't follow your logic here.

1. I'm not certain what bold 1 means. This is my first game in the big leagues, third overall. Can someone explain? Or like, if it's just asking someone what their reads are, why it would only be done to a "threat"? I'm just confused by this whole quote.

2. Bold 2. What's that supposed to mean? ;_;

[pieguyn]

acryon is saying TF asked you that "if I'm scum who else is scum" question so that scum would get more information about your reads (that is, they'd get an idea for what you'd do after TF flipped scum)

which I'm not sure about cos it's not smth I usually see scum actually do. and even if they were interested in what your reads were, it wouldn't be hard to make a good enough guess based on what you had already posted in the game thread

usually the only time I ever see scum actually make an explicit attempt to learn more about someone's reads, it's done to someone who is extremely good at pushing the lynch they want, and mostly accurate, but doesn't elaborate on most of their reads outside of that. even if there was someone in this game who was that good at strong-arming lynches, no one fits since most of the people here are pretty open with reads anyway

[Elbirn]

Why are you trying to create a 1 v 1?

Because one of you are scum. I'd rather a monkey lynch, but no one seems to like that.

+1 for reasons for Boon being scum. I just don't like this. And as I learned from my last game, where I was scum; scum like to set up dichotomies instead of actually scumhunting. The whole "If x is scum then y is town" thing? Sounds like shit to me.

[Flames682]

pseudo vote Acryon

(with no colon)

i want acryon lynched but i do not want to see Boon in here quickhammering with 9 days left

Please don't do this and use FOS instead. If I see a vote without a colon I'll add one.

[pieguyn]

pseudo vote Acryon

(with no colon)

i want acryon lynched but i do not want to see Boon in here quickhammering with 9 days left

Please don't do this and use FOS instead. If I see a vote without a colon I'll add one.

Spoiler:

[Toon Fighter]

I ignored cheeto more toDay because I was more convinced of MM being scum, and after changing to Elbirn and being away for a couple days I kinda forgot about him. Plus hi s play D2 is looking alot better than D1.

Did I overlook any other question for me? Please remind me.

[eektor]

Also, recently when he asked someone's opinion on who his partners would be if he flips scum. Why would town ever ask something like that?

again, I don't like this

I think a lot of people are using TF asking this as an easy thing to take a potshot at, without critically thinking about it. what do you think the scum motivation is in asking that question?

I'm also wondering who you think the scum lining TF up for lynch are, and why you'd get back onto the TF wagon at the request of someone you think is possible scum if you thought scum was lining TF up for lynch.

Where is the town motivation in that? You know you won't flip scum.

Who I think scum is on TF lynch depends greatly on whether TF flips scum or town. This post by you gives me the impression that you know TF will flip town, yet you are voting for him? Why is that?

But to answer your question, the scum setting up TF for a lynch is most likely Monkey and you. That of course is dependent on if Toon flips town. But the reason I went back to TF is what Monkey said reminded me about a guide I read about playing mafia, where it said to lynch all scummy players so that scum will have a hard time hiding.

[Toon Fighter]

If you think Monkey and pie are scum, why are you voting me? It seems you are not sure of your vote, and changing after Monkey's suggestion doesn't look good

[eektor]

If you think Monkey and pie are scum, why are you voting me? It seems you are not sure of your vote, and changing after Monkey's suggestion doesn't look good

If you are town, then I would think Monkey and pie are scum. But I'm voting you because I don't think you are town.

[acryon]

I'm looking through this and the only time you addressed Elbirn D2 up to that point was.... when you called him out for asking you terrible questions. and you just told me you'd be reluctant to call that an alignment tell and that it was mostly play style. the only other thing I noticed is where you said his Boon post wasn't backed up by a Boon vote, but I'm guessing that itself wouldn't be a strong enough reason for a scum read.

is there more to this that I'm missing? if there is, elaborate.

I didn't talk about it much for the reasons I already stated earlier, but I did mention in passing my thoughts on elbirn.

I don't like elbirn either, but Toon needs to burn.

But I quoted his follow-up because it wasn't a good answer for it. This question from Toon just makes zero sense as town. If Toon is town, then he is telling Elbirn to engage in a thought process that is absolutely a complete waste of time and energy. Why would you ask someone to give you associative tells based on an alignment-red that you

know

is incorrect? From a scum-perspective, this kind of question allows Toon/other scum to have extra information on where Toon's reads are at. There is literally zero town reason to ask this question.

disagree. the town reason for asking that is to make sure Elbirn is *actually* legitimately scum hunting and forming a complete picture of the game; while it would necessarily be wrong, cases usually say more about the person making the case than the person the case is about.

I'm assuming you meant Elbirn's reads. why would scum specifically focus on getting reads from Elbirn? usually "fishing out reads" isn't actually done often in practice, and when it is it's usually done to someone who's perceived as a large threat (and no offense but I don't exactly think Elbirn fits here).

I still don't follow your logic here.

Completely disagree. How does it ensure he is actually legitmately scumhunting? All he has to do is come up with a good story from there of who else is scum, which if he is town

or

scum, he will have.

I can't say why he directed the questions toward Elbirn specifically, because it's mostly WIFOM, but I just don't buy that question as coming from town at all. Town gains little, if anything, from the answer, and given Elbirn-town, scum gains information they didn't have.

[MonkeyMan576]

Saying that Pie and I are scum if Toon is town doesn't make any sense. Toon is acting scummy. You haven't pointed out any town behavior from toon afaik.

[eektor]

Saying that Pie and I are scum if Toon is town doesn't make any sense. Toon is acting scummy. You haven't pointed out any town behavior from toon afaik.

Right, because it makes more sense to say there is no scum on Toon if he is town?