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Post Post #39375 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:41 am

Post by Voidedmafia »

In post 39368, dramonic wrote:Voided, the day you complete that build you'll realize you've got a bajillion penetration backed by 0 damage.

It wass probly better back when BT built up to 90 AD instead of the shield. I guess IE can still work but because the two extra attacks don't crit it feels like a waste of money.

In post 39374, Siveure DtTrikyp wrote:My opinion: pick 5 adcs for the enemy team. Then enjoy free teamfights.

Just don't pick Kalista. Or Ashe.
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Post Post #39376 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:18 am

Post by dramonic »

In post 39365, Voidedmafia wrote:build Hurricane-
BC
-LW-Youmu's-one of shiv/BoRk.

Did you mean BT there?
My response is assuming you did mean BC
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Post Post #39377 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:27 pm

Post by Nikanor »

In post 39375, Voidedmafia wrote:I guess IE can still work but because the two extra attacks don't crit it feels like a waste of money.

so because runaans doesn't crit you feel like IE is a waste of money
do you realize how backwards you are thinking
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Post Post #39378 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:53 pm

Post by PJ. »

It's the return of the MS "don't buy armor against brutalizer" logic
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Post Post #39379 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:02 pm

Post by Klazam »

in his defense, he's specifically talking about building around runaan and cait's passive.
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Post Post #39380 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:03 pm

Post by Nikanor »

the fact that he's talking about building around runaans makes him indefensible tho
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Post Post #39381 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:05 pm

Post by Klazam »

Cait's passive has interesting interaction
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Post Post #39382 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:18 pm

Post by PJ. »

IE is too good to pass up for anyone that is an AAer.
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Post Post #39383 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:22 pm

Post by Iecerint »

IE is a lot weaker if the rest of your build doesn't have lots of AD.

It might be reasonable to build less AD if you scale really well with AS or have lots of useful on-hit things.

Maybe not "best" but.
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Post Post #39384 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:38 pm

Post by zoraster »

re: cait+runaan's build: It's not ideal, and has some serious weaknesses, but it is fun and it is "viable" in the sense that you can carry a game with it, win with it, etc. Almost certainly you'd do so with a better build anyway, but the idea is to do something different. It's fun to see people tilt their head in confusion.

The weakness is that Runaan's (among others) depends on AD, which isn't a stat that you get FROM it. That stands in contrast to IE that synergizes AD and IE's critting. Building AD increases the increased crit damage as well as being good in and of itself. Building Runaans as a first item means you fire a lot of really crappy bolts.

My solution in casual games is to use lifesteal quint runes (instead of my norm of AS, runaans will get AS quickly anyway), start longsword and get an early sword of the occult. This is a stupid gamble, but it's one that if it pays off allows runaan's to remain viable as the game progresses. And because cait can stay safer than many ADCs, it's a little bit less stupid. Also, Sword of the Occult + Runaans (once you get it) allows for a lot of stack building assists. Building BF first is probably a better, safer option building into either BT or IE, but that means you can't build it out of a longsword and that delays getting the damage item+runaan's.

I think BT is probably a better option than IE, for what it's worth. You still need AD, and the lifesteal procs on the bolts (possibly doubling the lifesteal of BT). The 25% increase on crit damage isn't that great.

PD and Statikk Shiv are awful in this build for what's it's worth because the increased passive rate means that the increased crit rate from PD/Stiv is made irrelevant on more shots.
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Post Post #39385 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:12 pm

Post by Voidedmafia »

In post 39376, dramonic wrote:Did you mean BT there?My response is assuming you did mean BC

No, I meant BC, but at the time I thought of it I would've had BT in there, too.

In post 39377, Nikanor wrote:so because runaans doesn't crit you feel like IE is a waste of moneydo you realize how backwards you are thinking

Considering that the build is based on an item that doesn't synergize with crits, I don't think it's
entirely
backwards. yes, the 80 AD is great, but it just feels like the item as a whole is wasted because the extra crit damage doesn't go with the two extra attacks you'll be getting off that don't benefit from that.

In post 39380, Nikanor wrote:the fact that he's talking about building around runaans makes him indefensible tho

However, consider that Runaan's, if you get it for Cait, builds 3 stacks for each AA if you hit 3 targets. In that case you're getting headshots every 3rd attack (3 for 3, 3 for 6, and then the next headshots) or so. If you're in the bush, you're headshotting every 2nd AA.

As someone pointed out, one of the glaring weakness is that you're heavily reliant on the decreased armor staying down long enough for your low AAs to deal damage (or to help some other AD champ--like, say, Zed--run rampant even on tanks because you're shredding them so hard). This is why IE is still a decent item for the build due to the big number, but then you're just buying it for the AD and really nothing else (because the build is more about getting off as many Hurricane-AAs as possible to apply BC stacks instead of that AND dealing a fuckton of damage with each AA).

In post 39383, Iecerint wrote:It might be reasonable to build less AD if you scale really well with AS or have lots of useful on-hit things.

Which is why I do it for Caitlyn. I also consider it for Ashe, too (dat slow, man), but I don't think it works for anyone else. Well, maybe Kog'maw, but I'm not sure if Runaan's applies his W.

In post 39384, zoraster wrote:PD and Statikk Shiv are awful in this build for what's it's worth because the increased passive rate means that the increased crit rate from PD/Stiv is made irrelevant on more shots.

fair enough (though I included Shiv for the stattik part, not the crits; Stattik only has one thing against it in the crits in comparison to IE which only has one thing for it).
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Post Post #39386 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:27 pm

Post by Iecerint »

IIRC, Runaan's does apply to Kog's W. It also applies to Varus's W, Miss Fortune's W, Teemo's E, and Twitch's passive.

The only built-in on-hit you might expect that it doesn't work with is Vayne, since she's no longer hitting only the same target 3 times. They specially programmed her case so that it doesn't totally remove her W mechanic from the main target, though.
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Post Post #39387 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:28 pm

Post by Iecerint »

I bet AP Nashor Varus would like it a lot. I should try it in ARAM sometime.
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Post Post #39388 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:36 pm

Post by Voidedmafia »

Come back and tell us if it works, plz.
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Post Post #39389 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:56 pm

Post by JasonWazza »

It does work, your just extremely reliant on being able to stack them autos.

500 AP gives you a 45% max health Ability if you managed to get 3 autos off.

I did it for lols in an all AD ARAM game a while back, and it was rather interesting to say the least.
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Post Post #39390 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:02 pm

Post by Iecerint »

I've played with some AP Varus players in all-AD Nemesis Draft teams, and they invariably carry.
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Post Post #39391 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:46 pm

Post by quadz08 »

THE OTHER TEAM GAVE US TARIC

WE GAVE THEM 5 MELEE ADS

it was a good time for us
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Post Post #39392 (ISO) » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:12 am

Post by zoraster »

so i've decided to try to figure out top and mid a little more so i'm not so one dimensional (bot or feed). I've started using Lissandra because I think she fits both roles well, and I like her a lot -- CC and mobility. Does anyone play her much or have thoughts on how to build her? I've tried a couple different routes. The last one seemed to offer survivability but still have enough power to be dangerous: rod of ages, sorc shoes, zhonyas, lisandry's. But I really don't know what's optimal on her.
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Post Post #39393 (ISO) » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:51 am

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I played a few games of nemesis draft last night after not playing for a month or so, felt like an old timer, you damn kids, etc etc. My thoughts on coming back after a month:

The midbase wall is amazing, even though I found it by autopathing mistake chasing down someone who flashed over it. I feel like it's going to really, really help with early game base sieges, although if that's happening to you you're probably boned anyway. I was totally shocked because I thought the game glitched, but I killed the guy who flashed it so clearly he didn't know about it either.

Almost shit my pants because I was playing vs a fed velkoz and enormous purple tentacles reached out for me in the enemy jungle while I was on an adventure. Surprise, new baron animation.

People have no idea how to play as/against unpopular champions, even four years later. That's super scary. Why does everyone playing Nemesis want to hand over Yorick? He's going to crush whatever awful melee non-damage champ you get given, in any lane, and make two of his best teammate. Same thing with Alistar, the king of the 1v2 FB for retards. I thought he was a big time popular pick a little while ago, seems like nobody remembers the tower headbutt unless they play botlane. Oh I fell victim to this too when I gave an all tanks team Mundo and the son of a bitch did the good doctor M.Pendo build that everyone was eating my lunch for 2 years ago. Told you it was good :p

The first people who stack up 5 in a lane still win easily in low level solo queue. There's no way to defend a turret or hold it or push them back or tp in or whatever the fuck you think you're doing vs 5 people pushing down a lane. You have to go to the lane. The only exception is a fed waveclear champ and even then you're going to lose one.

If you're in a position where you can't defend your base because people are dead, you still have to push. Yes, it's a low percentage play. Yes, they are probably going to take your base. Guess what? You can't do anything about it so you might as well take an inhib and hope your team pulls out a miracle. (They are all going to scream at you while dead, just deal with it).

Full AP Nidalee from the jungle, huh? Would like to give it a shot but that's gonna hamstring you lategame when you explode on engage. Seems like reverse curve lee sin where you sacrifice lategame survivability for early game damage. Not sure how new AP Nid stays alive in the endgame and/or does any dmg. Nid is totally dependent on kittycombo for damage, yeah you do more dmg with a LB then TF but I usually only build 2 offensive items (TF LW) and do just fine on dmg, possibly adding or subbing a BORK if things are going exceedingly well (or badly). I play a decent nidalee, and I just don't see it. But of course last week on...

Oh, right. This ain't LCS folks. Doesn't matter who played what when where or that I haven't seen it, because I don't care. Pro play hasn't impacted low level play since they took ashe out of midlane.

All in all I enjoyed some low stakes gimmick games with nice people. The game definitely does change at a rapid pace, even if you only miss a couple patch notes things are wildly different. If only league had a pause button or didn't take an hour to play and then suck you in for the entire rest of the night. :)

Oh one last thing, since "shitter" has been entirely assimilated (sorry peg), I'm going back to fucko. Stay off it.
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Post Post #39394 (ISO) » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:39 am

Post by pickemgenius »

whoa i've already spread the fuckos around not the shitters.


EVERYONE IS A FUCKO


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Post Post #39395 (ISO) » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:10 pm

Post by Papa Zito »

ayyyyy this fucko is back
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Post Post #39396 (ISO) » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:12 pm

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Post Post #39397 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:19 am

Post by Jahudo »

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Post Post #39398 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:39 pm

Post by theelkspeaks »

3 games so far of Nemesis - one as supp Nami on a low damage team and got carried by our hybrid carry Janna, one as top Taric where we got rekt by a Lissandra, and one as Karthus mid where we mostly owned the crap out of them including me getting a quadrakill. All 3 of them were on champs I've actually played in the last year in ranked in the relevant role, so nothing too wacky for me (beyond supporting a Janna as Nami in lane, that is), though some of my teammates have been on adventures.
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Post Post #39399 (ISO) » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:43 pm

Post by dramonic »

...You played top taric in ranked?
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