Mini 1636: Mafialand Mayhem! - [Game Over]


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Post Post #1200 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:47 pm

Post by N »

Votecount 4.2


Not voting (7): Aronis, llll, evilpacman18, curiouskarmadog, Aeronaut, Reticent, Wake88

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 4 is in (expired on 2015-03-03 18:53:07).
GTKAS

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Post Post #1201 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:18 pm

Post by llll »

On Day 1, Gendaberry voted for MonkeyMan, then Lapsa.
On Day 2, Gendaberry voted for llll, then MonkeyMan.
On Day 3, Gendaberry voted for Pacman, then KatieB.

If Gendaberry investigated during either of N1 or N2, then I think he got 1 or 2 innocent results back. If he had a guilty result, I think he would have said so, considering at that point he would have been a VT with 0, possibly 1 more investigations. At the very least, Gendaberry would have altered his voting style to some extent. I did not see any crumbs, but then again, maybe I'm bad at noticing crumbs. I don't remember any mentions of crumbs back in 2003, so this whole concept is still somewhat new to me.

@Curiouskarmadog I'm not sure what to make of you. You've posted a lot but your activity can be basically summarized by D1 - wagon Monkey hard, D2 - wagon Monkey hard, D3 - express interest in hammering Katie. It would be nice if you posted a readlist or something to that effect.

In post 1172, Aeronaut wrote:Well, I'm going to assume that you're hammered.

I think I forgot to mention, another big factor (and I think what sent me over the edge) on me scumreading you, is this post.

In post 1049, KatieB wrote:The kill was an attempt to foster apathy. Anen was the third most active remaining player. This is obvious.

I was obviously wrong about monkeyman, but I frequently have trouble with lynches based on proficiency. When someone good plays poorly, I am likely to judge them scum and when someone less skilled plays poorly I am more likely to judge them town. It's a bias that I'm working on.

I'm reworking my reads today. I dont think I want to lynch droog. I'm willing to listen to theories.

Did not like wake's entry today. Did not like your entry today. Have another reason to vote you that is gonna remain a secret for a little while.


More specifically, the "I have another reason to vote you which is going to remain secret". From my perspective, and mine alone, that looks like a scumclaim. Because, this can mean one of two things. 1. It involves an ongoing game. 2. You were claiming a guilty.

Now, this is the first game I've ever played you, so that is not it. In my eyes, you were trying to crumb that you had some sort of something on me, and that you had some kind of investigative role, or a role that knew something I didn't. Knowing my own role as town, there's nothing that you would have gotten if you'd investigated me. You claiming VT just sort of drove home that you were just saying that to take pressure off. I don't see another alternative, here.
@Aeronaut

If this is "what sent me [Aeronaut] over the edge" and "From my perspective, and mine alone, that looks like a scumclaim.", then why did you spend all that time trying to get Pacman lynched?

@Pacman Nice job getting Riddles replaced. Proactiveness is helpful. Appreciating the more than once a Day vote counts, thanks.
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Post Post #1202 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:21 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

Over the edge as in thinking she's scum.
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Post Post #1203 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:51 pm

Post by llll »

Aeronaut, you voted for Pacman in post 1084 and you kept your vote on Pacman in posts 1085, 1086, 1088, 1090, 1092, 1094, 1096, 1098, 1103, 1105, 1106, 1109, 1112, 1114, 1115, 1120, 1126, 1127, 1129, 1130, 1131, 1132, 1134, 1135, 1147, 1151, 1152, 1155, 1158, 1160, 1161, 1162, and only in post 1164 did you stop doing your best to lynch Pacman, and switched to the Katie wagon. Yet you would have us believe that you thought Katie made a scumclaim way back in 1049 that you said sent you over the edge.
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Post Post #1204 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:53 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

Yes, at that point I thought she was scum.

Do you have a point?
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Post Post #1205 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:02 pm

Post by llll »

Your twilight posts were strange. Why did you already start posting excuses for why you voted Katie during twilight, before Katie's alignment was revealed?
There's only one reason you would vote for Katie, yet also know you would have to make excuses for your vote before Mod posted the flip.
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Post Post #1206 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:08 pm

Post by llll »

Could you walk me through your thought process?

The one where you consider an early in the Day post a scumclaim on Katie's part, and spend the vast majority of the Day wagonning Pacman, then hammer Katie at the end, saying she made a scumclaim early in the day.
If somebody claims scum, a reasonable pro-town role does not spend the rest of the Day voting someone else.
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Post Post #1207 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:13 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

In post 1205, llll wrote:Your twilight posts were strange. Why did you already start posting excuses for why you voted Katie during twilight, before Katie's alignment was revealed?
There's only one reason you would vote for Katie, yet also know you would have to make excuses for your vote before Mod posted the flip.

Uh, what scumclaim are you talking about?
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Post Post #1208 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:13 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

Meant to quote the second post there.
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Post Post #1209 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:23 pm

Post by llll »

In post 1172, Aeronaut wrote:
I think I forgot to mention, another big factor (and I think what sent me over the edge) on me scumreading you, is this post.

In post 1049, KatieB wrote:The kill was an attempt to foster apathy. Anen was the third most active remaining player. This is obvious.

I was obviously wrong about monkeyman, but I frequently have trouble with lynches based on proficiency. When someone good plays poorly, I am likely to judge them scum and when someone less skilled plays poorly I am more likely to judge them town. It's a bias that I'm working on.

I'm reworking my reads today. I dont think I want to lynch droog. I'm willing to listen to theories.

Did not like wake's entry today. Did not like your entry today. Have another reason to vote you that is gonna remain a secret for a little while.


More specifically, the "I have another reason to vote you which is going to remain secret". From my perspective, and mine alone, that looks like a
scumclaim
. Because, this can mean one of two things. 1. It involves an ongoing game. 2. You were claiming a guilty.
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Post Post #1210 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:24 pm

Post by llll »

My emphasis, of course.
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Post Post #1211 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:24 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

In post 1206, llll wrote:Could you walk me through your thought process?

The one where you consider an early in the Day post a scumclaim on Katie's part, and spend the vast majority of the Day wagonning Pacman, then hammer Katie at the end, saying she made a scumclaim early in the day.
If somebody claims scum, a reasonable pro-town role does not spend the rest of the Day voting someone else.

Oh, I see.

No, it's not a literal scum claim. Basically, she was acting like she had a guilty on me, which I knew she couldn't, knowing I was town-aligned. However, her claiming VT sent me over the edge, because going back to that post, she was crumbing -something-. I figured that meant that her using that as a reason to vote me was bullshit, therefore it sent me over the edge and made me want to hammer.
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Post Post #1212 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:25 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

It was her claiming VT when she had been crumbing something before to explain her original reads.
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Post Post #1213 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:26 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

You didn't seem to have a problem with it yesterday, though. Hmm......
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Post Post #1214 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:47 pm

Post by Aronis »

Hi guys. I'm here to put this slot back on the right track.

So reads:
Aeronaut: Town
Top townread atm. Really liked his play throughout the game. Push on pacman and monkey both resonate well with me.

Wake88: Town
So despite his inactivity, two things stand out to me. His defense of Lapsa at d1 end seemed really protown. And the monekyman push on him bc he requested replacement seems like they had to he opposite alignments.

||||: Slight town lean
Early on he seemed very opportunistic and didn't give me a great feeling, but after his confrontation with monkey and play after that, he seems more town. Still not sure though.

Reticent: Null
Very undecided about him atm. I've gone back and forth with this read.

Karmadog: Null
Okay, quick question. Do you know Ollie or something?
Undecided about this slot as well, d1 had me thinking scum, but rethinking that.

Pacman: Scum
So his first few posts seemed pretty good, but then 374 came out of nowhere with the push on Anen, which made no sense at the time. His posts around 537, where he abandoned the monkey push didn't settle well with me. And overall his undecidedness about monkey didn't set well with me, etc.

VOTE: Pacman
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Post Post #1215 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:54 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

What do you think of |||| today, Aronis?
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Post Post #1216 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:01 pm

Post by llll »

In post 1211, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 1206, llll wrote:Could you walk me through your thought process?

The one where you consider an early in the Day post a scumclaim on Katie's part, and spend the vast majority of the Day wagonning Pacman, then hammer Katie at the end, saying she made a scumclaim early in the day.
If somebody claims scum, a reasonable pro-town role does not spend the rest of the Day voting someone else.

Oh, I see.

No, it's not a literal scum claim. Basically, she was acting like she had a guilty on me, which I knew she couldn't, knowing I was town-aligned. However, her claiming VT sent me over the edge, because going back to that post, she was crumbing -something-. I figured that meant that her using that as a reason to vote me was bullshit, therefore it sent me over the edge and made me want to hammer.


Well, that's certainly a better explanation for your hammer than what you originally said. Of course, you did have a long Twilight/Night to polish up your excuse. And speaking of excuses, why the premature apology in 1172? It reads like a post trying to justify the wrong decision. Why would you post something like that unless you already knew what Riddleton/N's post was going to say?

In post 1213, Aeronaut wrote:You didn't seem to have a problem with it yesterday, though. Hmm......

It's not Katie's wagon that I have a problem with, obviously. I have a problem with the way you joined Katie's wagon. I have a problem with the apologetic tone, the premature 'oh I had no choice but to vote for you Katie, here's why' excuses, the guilty feeling given off by your post-hammer posts.

Vote: Aeronaut


Preview edit: Hi Aronis! Have you read Day 3? It seems you won't be posting the wall some replacements post.
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Post Post #1217 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:08 pm

Post by Aronis »

In post 1215, Aeronaut wrote:What do you think of |||| today, Aronis?

His posts seem alright to me. Nothing very alignment telling imo. If you're asking about the end of day 3 stuff, the wcumclaim stuff seems rather irrelevant and I don't really see any excuses.
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Post Post #1218 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:13 pm

Post by Aronis »

@||||: Yes, I'm all caught up.
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Post Post #1219 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:32 pm

Post by llll »

@Aeronaut

In 1127, you post
In post 1127, Aeronaut wrote:Leaning Katie.

while voting for Pacman. That's literally your entire post.



Yet 10 minutes later, in 1129, you scumread Pacman for scumreading Katie (just like
you
did 10 minutes ago!), concluding with
In post 1129, Aeronaut wrote:Please, can we lynch this.

in reference to Pacman.



It reads like you don't really care who gets lynched. Why don't you care? Is it all the same to you in the end, as long as the lynchee's name comes up in green? Katie is town, so Pacman is probably town as well.
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Post Post #1220 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:41 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

In post 1216, llll wrote:

No, it's not a literal scum claim. Basically, she was acting like she had a guilty on me, which I knew she couldn't, knowing I was town-aligned. However, her claiming VT sent me over the edge, because going back to that post, she was crumbing -something-. I figured that meant that her using that as a reason to vote me was bullshit, therefore it sent me over the edge and made me want to hammer.


Well, that's certainly a better explanation for your hammer than what you originally said.

It's actually the same one. vvv
In post 1172, Aeronaut wrote:In my eyes, you were trying to crumb that you had some sort of something on me, and that you had some kind of investigative role, or a role that knew something I didn't. Knowing my own role as town, there's nothing that you would have gotten if you'd investigated me. You claiming VT just sort of drove home that you were just saying that to take pressure off. I don't see another alternative, here.



Of course, you did have a long Twilight/Night to polish up your excuse. And speaking of excuses, why the premature apology in 1172? It reads like a post trying to justify the wrong decision. Why would you post something like that unless you already knew what Riddleton/N's post was going to say?

Here is the post in question. There is no apology in it.


In post 1213, Aeronaut wrote:You didn't seem to have a problem with it yesterday, though. Hmm......

It's not Katie's wagon that I have a problem with, obviously. I have a problem with the way you joined Katie's wagon. I have a problem with the apologetic tone, the premature 'oh I had no choice but to vote for you Katie, here's why' excuses, the guilty feeling given off by your post-hammer posts.


Yea, no.
I was open about thinking Katie was scum from the beginning of Day 4 until the end. Because I thought she was.
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Post Post #1221 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:46 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

[the above should read Day 3 instead of Day 4]

-----

Here's what's going to happen.You're going to stop working around my questions. You're going to stop misrepping me, (and yes, it's misrepping until you actually find the things in the post that you say are there). You're going to stop pretending like you're the one in charge of this, because you aren't, I am.


Here is the first question you will answer;
Why were you OK with my posts yesterday, but suddenly at daystart, they strike you as odd?
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Post Post #1222 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:51 pm

Post by Aeronaut »

In post 1219, llll wrote:@Aeronaut

In 1127, you post
In post 1127, Aeronaut wrote:Leaning Katie.

while voting for Pacman. That's literally your entire post.

I was leaning on switching my vote. Your point?


Yet 10 minutes later, in 1129, you scumread Pacman for scumreading Katie (just like
you
did 10 minutes ago!), concluding with
In post 1129, Aeronaut wrote:Please, can we lynch this.

in reference to Pacman.

I scumread Pac for the way he jumped onto Katie, not for scumreading her alone. It looked like a bus to me.


It reads like you don't really care who gets lynched. Why don't you care? Is it all the same to you in the end, as long as the lynchee's name comes up in green? Katie is town, so Pacman is probably town as well.

Between the two of them, no I didn't care, and I was open about that. I had them both down as scum, it doesn't which one goes first.
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Post Post #1223 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:04 pm

Post by llll »

1172 may not have the words sorry or apology written in it, but in it you're going around defensively justifying your vote during twilight. Why would you have to do that unless you already knew Katie's alignment. It just
feels
apologetic.

You scumread Katie, then in your next post 10 minutes later, you scumread Pacman for scumreading Katie. How do you get away with this crap?
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Post Post #1224 (ISO) » Tue Feb 17, 2015 7:21 pm

Post by llll »

In post 1221, Aeronaut wrote:Here is the first question you will answer; Why were you OK with my posts yesterday, but suddenly at daystart, they strike you as odd?


Don't misrep me.

I never said I was OK with your post-hammer Twilight posts.

As for posts before Twilight, I was overly focused on the Droog, Katie, Pacman scum model. Clearly that model is wrong.

Reading over your posts from Yesterday,
Today
, gives a completely different view on the matter, so now I can see scummier qualities of your posts that my mind filtered out yesterday. Clearly, you were out to lynch one of Katie or Pacman yesterday, and it did not matter which. Thing is, that was not made clear to me until you hammered Katie, and then you starting writing those scummy posts, and so on...

I will confess culpability for letting you get away with this bullshit yesterday. Flips really open your eyes sometimes.

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