Micro 447: Shameless Mafia -- Game Over!

[TierShift]

Come vote with me!
Christmas feels relaxed, which is a decent towntell ime. Not a strong townread.
Anen is somewhat of a grey area. Me elaborating might lead to him changing his behaviour, so I'm not gonna. Atm.

[Alchemist21]

I don't sheep onto wagons unless I trust the read on the player. That usually means trusted, confirmed Town has to ask me to get me to sheep.

[TierShift]

But you said you weren't satisfied with what dodgy has shown. Do something with your vote, at least.

[Alchemist21]

If he refuses to respond then I'll vote. I'm fine with waiting a bit for him though.

[estival]

Christmas,

I'm not sure what to make of it.

Aneninen seems like he's highly paranoid. If he were scum I don't think he would call attention to himself with that kind of gambit of assuming that the scum were speaking of his scum meta in a PT.

Alchemist21, seems like he's asking a lot of questions.

TierShift, seems a little scummy to me because of his reaction to Aneninen and Alchemist21 being too casual and all the required explanation (ok its also boring because I don't know the past games or whatever nominations and nor do I have time to extra research).

dodgy56, I would like to see more from him especially why he reads TierShift as scummy.

ArcAngel, what are your thoughts on this exchange between 4 players?

Some general questions:

1. If you could pick, town or scum?
2. Best scum hunting moment in a finished game?
3. Most dangerous player of either alignment in the player list and why?

[TierShift]

TierShift, seems a little scummy to me because of his reaction to Aneninen and Alchemist21 being too casual and all the required explanation

I did something with a plan behind it, that I explained afterwards. Why would doing something multilayered that advances the game make me scum?

Why do you think anen wouldn't attract attention to himself by making a case on another player as scum?

[TierShift]

I hope my other game starts soon. I post too much when I'm in nly one, lol.

Shos in here

[dodgy56]

lol can we lynch dodgy first?

this post is my main reason for thinking tier is scum. Hearing the accusation against him, his first response is to ask if we can lynch me, He doesnt even attempt to justify why its wrong nor does to do anything to suggest why im scum. His reason for voting me at the point when he suggests it would be a scenario which requires him to be scum also. I know im town, but that doesnt make tier town. anen could be on the money with his post about tier and commenting on anen's meta. but if he is, tier didnt get it from me.

[insanity018]

Vote Count 1.3

TierShift

(2): Aneninen, dodgy56

ArcAngel9

(1): estival

dodgy56

(1): TierShift

Aneninen

(1): ArcAngel9

shos

(1): This Christmas

Not Voting

(3): shos, Toon Fighter, Alchemist21

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-03-07 20:04:00)

[Alchemist21]

lol can we lynch dodgy first?

this post is my main reason for thinking tier is scum. Hearing the accusation against him, his first response is to ask if we can lynch me, He doesnt even attempt to justify why its wrong nor does to do anything to suggest why im scum. His reason for voting me at the point when he suggests it would be a scenario which requires him to be scum also. I know im town, but that doesnt make tier town. anen could be on the money with his post about tier and commenting on anen's meta. but if he is, tier didnt get it from me.

Did you read Tier's later posts that explained both reasons?

[insanity018]

shos has been prodded.

[shos]

Oh this exists lol

Fucking Gallaghars. How can Mandy be a VT?! Disgrace!!

Ill be here in a while

[Toon Fighter]

I didn't want a role claim, just a name/character claim

About the votes, I don't have a lot of time to read thoroughly right now, so I leave that for later today/tomorrow

[Aneninen]

Alchemist, here is the explanation you wanted.
In this game (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=60039), I decided to progress RVS quicker by going along with the obvious gambit, essentially lying up to page 3/4. That turned out very well. I got some reads off it, RVS ended quickly and it was a perfect town win.

I was pretty content with how I played that RVS there and tried to do something as to elicit a reaction from anen. I was under the assumption anen's case would not be followed (as it is pretty ridiculous), so I felt safe to portray myself as 'caught scum', posting throwaway remarks instead of responding, in the hopes of egging anen on and seeing what would happen. From town-him, I'd expect outrage over how I obviously avoided his case. From scum (I don't say scum-him as I don't have meta on that), I'd rather expect a somewhat grumpy response as others laughed at his case (which incidentally is part of the reason I'm townreading you, alchemist).

In the end, it did not turn out this way, as I am being wagoned. I do think my 22 was fruitful, though; I'm reasonably confident in my townread on you and I've found probable scum awkwardly jumping on my wagon. I also feel somewhat happy about the guy with the weed avatar.

As for why I shouldn't be voted for my #22: I could have very, very easily just outright said why I heard anen's scumgame was good. Attracting attention to myself instead has no scum motivation.

Alchemist, will you join me on dodgy? He's quite dodgy.
P-edit: wow that's quite a lot hehe

I know that I'm biased but I can't see why the game you linked and this one are similar.
I simply don't believe that you wanted to reaction-test me either.
I would believe that you acted like an obv-scum. I know this behavior from at least two Agatha Christie novels, where there are too many and too obvious things against the murder – who knows pretty well that his/her case is collapsing sooner or later. Another case is emerging soon instead of the first one. (Of course, because they're Agatha Christie-novels, the murder gets caught in the end, obviously.)

Anen, ask yourself this:
1. How likely is it that I talked with my scumbuddy about a random townie's scum meta pre-game?
If you're having trouble answering this, take a look at a few scum PT's and look what pre-game discussions entail.
2. How likely is it that I regularly check a thread that I proved I subscribed to?

So far whenever I was scum, we discussed our knowledge about the other players.
As for your 2nd question, I don't know the answer. How on Gods' Green Earth would I know that?

@Anen, I've seen scum talk about their own scumplay with each other in a scum PT, but not about the scumplay of the Townies in the game.

Such info might have occoured as a side-info as well. Eg. "I met him once, he was scum, they were good".

But... I'm thinking and...
...yes. What if my idea about the slip was wrong and Tiershift was telling the truth?
And there was a

different kind of talk

in the QT... not about my scumplay, but about my townplay...
between Tiershift and ALCHEMIST?
It's easy to imagine that Alchemist brought up Pick Your Chocolate Power, where I indeed mis-killed MathDino as a N3-Vig. It makes perfect sense to talk about others'

townplay

there!
In 8 Alchemist refers to that game, in 10 Tiershift asks back, the link arrives in 11 (10 minutes later, he says:

"Not sure where the post is."

) and in 12 Tiershift says

"That was one of the most blatant crumbs I've ever seen, lol."

– there was 12 minutes between those posts.
In this case it might have been a coincidence that Tiershift was hanging around in the nomination thread independently.

I also know that I've had a bad reputation for analysing the posting times (basicly, since I arrived to MafiaScum). Okay, let's say, I'm wrong again.

But, who unvotes Tiershift, says that his reasoning seems to be right, and FoS-es Dodgy (whom Tiershift is voting right now)?
Alchemist!

[Aneninen]

Aneninen seems like he's highly paranoid. If he were scum I don't think he would call attention to himself with that kind of gambit of assuming that the scum were speaking of his scum meta in a PT.

Paranoid is one of my middle names, you know. Another one is "VigTheConfTownie". ^_^
Actually I'm paranoid as scum too. So paranoid that once I deathtunnelled Wgeurts and by the end of my post I completely forgot that he was town and I was scum. ^_^
But now I'm town, so you needn't worry.

Some general questions:
1. If you could pick, town or scum?
2. Best scum hunting moment in a finished game?
3. Most dangerous player of either alignment in the player list and why?

1. Town. Much more interesting.
2. Making exciting a game by shooting a conf-townie? ^_^ Okay, here's something else. Realizing that a scum was fake-claiming at L–1 by analysing his parallel online activity.
3. I don't know everyone... if Alchemist is scum he's doing it very well now........

[TierShift]

So far whenever I was scum, we discussed our knowledge about the other players.
As for your 2nd question, I don't know the answer. How on Gods' Green Earth would I know that?

Have you ever discussed about some townie's scumgame?

You don't think it's pretty likely that I regularly check a thread that I subscribed to for that specific intent?

Just take a step back and reevaluate. you're already doing associatives before a flip, which should show how far your head is up your arse.

[Aneninen]

Don't ignore my other idea.
By the way, you started to discuss a townie's scumgame on Page1.

And I have f-cking no idea how often you check a subscribed topic, because I use the View your posts page for following everything.

[TierShift]

But... I'm thinking and...
...yes. What if my idea about the slip was wrong and Tiershift was telling the truth?
And there was a different kind of talk in the QT... not about my scumplay, but about my townplay...
between Tiershift and ALCHEMIST?
It's easy to imagine that Alchemist brought up Pick Your Chocolate Power, where I indeed mis-killed MathDino as a N3-Vig. It makes perfect sense to talk about others' townplay there!
In 8 Alchemist refers to that game, in 10 Tiershift asks back, the link arrives in 11 (10 minutes later, he says: "Not sure where the post is.") and in 12 Tiershift says "That was one of the most blatant crumbs I've ever seen, lol." – there was 12 minutes between those posts.
In this case it might have been a coincidence that Tiershift was hanging around in the nomination thread independently.

I don't even understand what you are saying. It took me 12 minutes to find the obvious crumb and write a response. How does that in any way showcase knowledge from the scum PT with alchemist?

[TierShift]

Don't ignore my other idea.
By the way, you started to discuss a townie's scumgame on Page1.

What is this supposed to mean? get your head out of your ass.

And I have f-cking no idea how often you check a subscribed topic, because I use the View your posts page for following everything.

That's what I mean by subscribing. I use egosearch myself. I visibly made an egosearch post in that thread, so I could follow it. Because most people use subscribe, I called it that.

[TierShift]

Look, all your points on me boil down to possible scumslips. There is no such thing as a possible scumslip; something is either a scumslip, or it isn't. If it can be proven a scumslip, lynch the fucker. If it cannot, you cannot use it as a scumtell. If it can be otherwise explained (in this case, by infinitely more likely causes), it just isn't a slip.

You even acknowledge that my behaviour isn't a real slip by providing an alternative explanation (that I'm scum with alchemist). I provided another. Only one can be true and it's not simply a 33-33-33% split between the three, so you cannot use the 2 out of 3 he's scum fallacy. Having got my knowledge elsewhere doesn't even make me town, frankly. You just need to either PROVE it's a slip or accept that it ISN'T.

[shos]

Is the thought process behind 23 contradictory to the thought process behind 21?

Find out next post!

Yes

I laughed loudly for about a minute omw back home. Loudly

[Alchemist21]

Alchemist, here is the explanation you wanted.
In this game (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=60039), I decided to progress RVS quicker by going along with the obvious gambit, essentially lying up to page 3/4. That turned out very well. I got some reads off it, RVS ended quickly and it was a perfect town win.

I was pretty content with how I played that RVS there and tried to do something as to elicit a reaction from anen. I was under the assumption anen's case would not be followed (as it is pretty ridiculous), so I felt safe to portray myself as 'caught scum', posting throwaway remarks instead of responding, in the hopes of egging anen on and seeing what would happen. From town-him, I'd expect outrage over how I obviously avoided his case. From scum (I don't say scum-him as I don't have meta on that), I'd rather expect a somewhat grumpy response as others laughed at his case (which incidentally is part of the reason I'm townreading you, alchemist).

In the end, it did not turn out this way, as I am being wagoned. I do think my 22 was fruitful, though; I'm reasonably confident in my townread on you and I've found probable scum awkwardly jumping on my wagon. I also feel somewhat happy about the guy with the weed avatar.

As for why I shouldn't be voted for my #22: I could have very, very easily just outright said why I heard anen's scumgame was good. Attracting attention to myself instead has no scum motivation.

Alchemist, will you join me on dodgy? He's quite dodgy.
P-edit: wow that's quite a lot hehe

I know that I'm biased but I can't see why the game you linked and this one are similar.
I simply don't believe that you wanted to reaction-test me either.
I would believe that you acted like an obv-scum. I know this behavior from at least two Agatha Christie novels, where there are too many and too obvious things against the murder – who knows pretty well that his/her case is collapsing sooner or later. Another case is emerging soon instead of the first one. (Of course, because they're Agatha Christie-novels, the murder gets caught in the end, obviously.)

Anen, ask yourself this:
1. How likely is it that I talked with my scumbuddy about a random townie's scum meta pre-game?
If you're having trouble answering this, take a look at a few scum PT's and look what pre-game discussions entail.
2. How likely is it that I regularly check a thread that I proved I subscribed to?

So far whenever I was scum, we discussed our knowledge about the other players.
As for your 2nd question, I don't know the answer. How on Gods' Green Earth would I know that?

@Anen, I've seen scum talk about their own scumplay with each other in a scum PT, but not about the scumplay of the Townies in the game.

Such info might have occoured as a side-info as well. Eg. "I met him once, he was scum, they were good".

But... I'm thinking and...
...yes. What if my idea about the slip was wrong and Tiershift was telling the truth?
And there was a

different kind of talk

in the QT... not about my scumplay, but about my townplay...
between Tiershift and ALCHEMIST?
It's easy to imagine that Alchemist brought up Pick Your Chocolate Power, where I indeed mis-killed MathDino as a N3-Vig. It makes perfect sense to talk about others'

townplay

there!
In 8 Alchemist refers to that game, in 10 Tiershift asks back, the link arrives in 11 (10 minutes later, he says:

"Not sure where the post is."

) and in 12 Tiershift says

"That was one of the most blatant crumbs I've ever seen, lol."

– there was 12 minutes between those posts.
In this case it might have been a coincidence that Tiershift was hanging around in the nomination thread independently.

I also know that I've had a bad reputation for analysing the posting times (basicly, since I arrived to MafiaScum). Okay, let's say, I'm wrong again.

But, who unvotes Tiershift, says that his reasoning seems to be right, and FoS-es Dodgy (whom Tiershift is voting right now)?
Alchemist!

12 minutes is a reasonable timespan considering I told him where to look for my crumb when I linked the game. Plus if I were scum with Tier I wouldn't need to link the game in thread if I had talked about it in the PT because I would have just done it there instead.

So yes, Anen, we're scum because we had the exact same discussion at the start of the game that we already had in the scum PT. #sarcasm

Also, do you realize I'm putting some focus on Dodgy for the same basic reason I focused on Tier? Instead of outright denying your accusation against him, he just says Tier is scum then voted him. He's explained it was for the same reason I voted Tier, and now I want to see if Tier's explanation changes his opinion or not.

[This Christmas]

i sense sarcasm
amirite

[ArcAngel9]

How do you pronounce Aneininen, is it sort of like Anemone?

Vote: ArcAngel9

But Kahlan was so boring, Cara was the true heroine of LoTS

Are you kidding? Kahlan is Mother Confessor. She is above awesome!!!

Hi . Who is familiar with the source material? I've seen every episode :p

Who thinks a massclaim can be helpful to town? Should we try to break this game D1? I support this motion. Carl Gallagher here

Also, Tiershift's wagon seems a bit too big for the size of the game. Will abstain from voting for now because RVS seems over and I don't know where to put my vote for now.

I dont think Mass Claim help. there are plenty Gallagher's and their friends to match this players list. So, It is useless

And so for.. I feel Anenin is scum. Espeically his push on Tier is super scummy.

My problem is that I simply can't ignore your 12, and I don't think I'll ever be able to drop the idea that it was a slip. So I examine all of your posts assuming that you're scum.
For example this one. Yes, we were nominated, I was in an excellent team (Wicked and Heartless). It is possible that you saw that but if so, you would have mentioned it right after my post about your slip.

So, everyone: here's my idea.
I can't imagine anyone as scum but Tiershift and Dodgy. Because of this, I don't think I can do anything useful Today.
So, let's lynch Tiershift. (Eg. Alchemist thinks that my read about the slip is wrong but Tieshift is scum because of his other posts.)

If he flips town, it's clear that my reads were wrong (and I'm really sorry, of course). But in this case you may think that I'm scum who has set up a clever mislynch and it would be risky with an unconfirmed-me in the town. (I'm town but I can't proove it.) So, fire away any kind of investigation you have on me at Night1. (Yes, I might have some kind of immunity, eg. Ninja, but because I have no idea about the Setup I can't have immunity against everything. Jailkeeper doesn't work, it would proove nothing, I suppose. Even a town-Vig shot would be useful, I think.)

If he flips scum, there are two players to be investigated: Dodgy and me. (Why me? Even if Tiershift flips scum, I could be his buddy, who tries to get away with a shrewd Day1-bussing.) Hopefully, by Day2 either Dodgy or me will be confirmed in either way.

Of course, regardless of the flip DO NOT CLAIM any PR prematurely; only if you have a sure read on anyone.

Discuss!

I'm adding this prematurely: Tiershift, if you're scum (especially if you're scum with Dodgy) but my read is wrong and there was no slip at all, I'm really, really sorry for spoiling your game. I don't think it's fair to catch a scum merely by sheer luck instead of good scumhunting

this post concerns me the most. He wants to lynch Tier first for the same reason Tier being blamed to lynch dodgy first!!!

[ArcAngel9]

I feel comfortable with my RVS vote.