Drawn on Arrival: The Movie: The Game (GAME OVER!)

[Psyche]

(it means that there are still free parameters in the ceteris paribus case)

[Reina]

Seraphim claiming that his role doesn't get notified when another role does is NOT AT ALL indicative of him being scum in a game with bastard mod elements.

If you think he's scum for how he played yesterday then explain that but I think his play is likelier to be town than scum here.

[Reina]

VOTE: Broseidon

[Heartless]

VOTE: seraphim

the pm said the vest was used tth. that implies a kill attempt. losing it to a vanillaizer or role thief would give a differently worded pm.

Seraphim claiming that his role doesn't get notified when another role does is NOT AT ALL indicative of him being scum in a game with bastard mod elements.

If you think he's scum for how he played yesterday then explain that but I think his play is likelier to be town than scum here.

that's really a strawman. i don't know where that case came from and i don't know why marquis is labeling it as that, but that's not really it

first, here's some pleasure reading, gamma:

Spoiler: post 957

Anti, if you don't stop spamming, I'm going to break your fingers. One at a time. With a hammer. And I'll gouge your eyes out.

...Incidentally, Aeronaut, by extension, might be scum or might be town. I'll explain later.

mastin, do not piss in my Cheerios. >:(
Aeronaut was not town and it makes me feel good about myself.

Just let me have my SK flip, dammit!

The resistance to ika's wagon makes a lot of sense given ika's role. It's incredibly powerful in that it's like a Mafia Roleblocker and a Mafia Rolecop combined into one role. Not only would ika be able to stop the action, he would also be able to gather quite a bit of intel on what the action actually

was

through the paragraph the target would be forced to write. Whatever the other power roles the other scum have, I can't imagine any would be as valuable as ika's. As such, I think there's a significant chance of finding scum concentrated on the counterwagons,

specifically

theamateur wagon since it never was very well supported and it just happened to be on someone who wasn't saying the "right things." At its peak, theamateur wagon consisted of these: theamatuer (6) - The Bulge, Aeronaut, Seraphim, Brian Skies, Gilgamesh King Of Heroes, PeregrineV.

Of those names, the one I think

most

promising for another scum flip is Seraphim.

As Antihero's already stated, the überstrong townreads on us and pirate mollie were "overdone." We were both on the ika wagon for the better part of the day and actively pushing it

and

I had already expressed reservations about theamateur wagon at that point. Disappointingly, that never actually translated into tangible results. Seraphim never made an effort to reach out to either of us on theamateur read in a meaningful way, opting instead to appeal to Psyche (Post 756) to resuccitate the wagon as ika's was gaining traction. He treated Anti and I with this odd mixture of compliance (Post 566) and antagonism (Post 604) that doesn't quite fit with either the screw-everyone-else-I'm-a-badass-scumhunter and let's-get-shit-done-I'll-settle approaches. It ended up being this weird in-between that was dysfunctional and didn't really work optimally on either ends. It also didn't involve a lot of voting for ika, which would have been the natural product of sheeping townreads. All this may have been forgivable if the case on theamateur was ever really good, but it wasn't. I think the most likely explanation is that all Seraphim's actions Day 1 were calculated to help ika's chances of survival and push a mislynch on town. It certainly makes more sense from that reference frame than from the reference from of "I have this really strong townread on pirate mollie and Heartless" because he then proceeds to ignore mollie altogether and have this weird will-they-or-won't-they with us.

VOTE: Seraphim
This is the play today, gentlemen.

my beef w/ the claim isn't sera's claim to the bp mechanics. i just posted the thing i did from graveyard shift because it shows a clear precedence of how quadz and ut deal w/ bp mechanics and sera howling about how bps aren't told they're shot is bullshit. they used a bp townie in anything goes, but i don't know if it got tripped before they were lynched or not and i don't have time to go through a 168 page game right now to figure it out.
overall, i don't really care about the bp mechanics. but the claim isn't rly doing anything for me and actually makes a ton of sense as a scum role in a multiball

what's scummy is the arena he's choosing in his fight with us and they way he's pushing the claimed bp mechanics like it implicates us. he COMPLETELY forgoes any engagement w/ tth over the case (which i think town wouldn't do) and instead sledgehammers on some half-baked theory that we lied about getting farside's invention and ignoring REALLY OBVIOUS STUFF like the absence of a counterclaim from anyone else on the farside invention or the absence of any clear motivation for why we would do that as scum. screaming about horseshit while ignoring everything else isn't a town way to go about a 1v1

broseidon's a good vote. i will give that to you.

[Shaft]

fuuuu

im so behind

[Heartless]

oh hey... speaking of another good vote...

[Reina]

I'll reread Seraphim in a bit I guess. I don't really like voting him because he's likely multiball scum either though given that it's not really confirmed multiball yet (although I wouldn't be at all surprised if it is).

[Reina]

also why you would do it as scum seems pretty simple to me? if it's generally accepted that you got shot by scum but blocked it with a vest, then you don't get lynched basically ever and look like conf. town because of it.

[Reina]

Yeah I reread a little and disagree with pretty much everything you wrote in that last paragraph there Heartless

-Him creating/causing the 1v1 in the first place is way way more likely to come from town

-He sees a pretty clear possible scum motivation from you trying to become conf. town and is confident enough about it to try to use everything that possibly points to you being scum to get you lynched

-"isn't a town way to go about a 1v1" honestly feels like a really bullshit copout about what he's doing being antitown and not good play instead of why it's more likely to be coming from scum behaviorally.

don't want to lynch him at all.

[Heartless]

and we totally would need to do that right now as scum, gamma, b/c we're in danger of being lynched sometime soon

[Reina]

I'm not saying you're currently doing that because that doesn't seem particularly likely to me either

but it IS a really clear motivation that sera sees and his posts make sense given that.

[Heartless]

-Him creating/causing the 1v1 in the first place is way way more likely to come from town

tth struck the first blow so... no

-He sees a pretty clear possible scum motivation from you trying to become conf. town and is confident enough about it to try to use everything that possibly points to you being scum to get you lynched

yeah... and it doesn't even stand up to 2 seconds of thought or answer hard hitting questions like... where did farside's invention go then?
"use everything" is also horseshit given that "everything" = "one thing" the one thing being the bp mechanic

-"isn't a town way to go about a 1v1" honestly feels like a really bullshit copout about what he's doing being antitown and not good play instead of why it's more likely to be coming from scum behaviorally.

nobody is this bad

[Heartless]

but it IS a really clear motivation that sera sees and his posts make sense given that.

if you completely ignore common sense, yes i agree

the fact that him getting his panties in a bunch came right on the heels of tth's case doesn't exactly suggest the purity of motives you seem to want to give him the benefit of the doubt for

[Reina]

but yeah seraphim is still scum and still dying

why do you think sera is scum?

[PeregrineV]

I am not informed when I am targeted for a kill.

Maybe it's just the wording, but did you ask if you are informed when your Bulletproof vest is used up?

The way this is worded, you are sounding like you are a self watcher.

[Reina]

but it IS a really clear motivation that sera sees and his posts make sense given that.

if you completely ignore common sense, yes i agree

the fact that him getting his panties in a bunch came right on the heels of tth's case doesn't exactly suggest the purity of motives you seem to want to give him the benefit of the doubt for

he didn't show up to day 2 until after you both made the case on him and claimed that

like it's not great but it also isn't SLAM DUNK SCUMZVILLE either

[PeregrineV]

no. read my fucking post.

If farside didn't forget Heartless was PGO AND targeted Heartless, the only reason would be to sacrifice herself to protect Heartless. In which case, she knew she was dying, in which case, she should of (by her role PM) used up all her inventor "shots" to fully protect Heartless. Which, by Heartless's own admission, did not occur.

He would/should admit to having 0, 1 or 2 vests given to him by Farside. It tells us how Farside died while otherwise leaving the WIFOM for the scum to figure out.

Are you trying to contend Farside didn't give him the invention and he's lying about causing her death?

[Heartless]

/sigh, alright

b/c i already know tth is going to do this when she gets here
UNVOTE:

[4nxi3ty]

I am the Lumpy Space Princess. I have two abilities: one is my one-shot BP. The other is a two-shot self-redirector which takes a person's ability and redirects it to me that night. I took no action last night because it was not obvious who the scum were so I did not attempt to eat the kill...also I would not have been informed (WHICH IS WHY I ASKED IN THE FIRST PLACE) if I had been shot rendered my role useless as a quasi-Watcher type.

I can see your role being a different BP, being purposefully not informed to make you have doubts about whether or not you should self-redirect. Right now this claim is slowing me down; it fits in with the theme's trend in roles so far; and once again I kinda am good with the tone.

Here's the problem I've been having: your tunnel on theam doesn't work for me, like it makes me wonder If you were limiting the people you'd have to push on, and now you're soley focused on Heartless. You said you'd pounce on your scumreads later, but that never happened, took someone else's prompting for you to share and even interact with me.

So talk to me about your reads that aren't heartless or theam.

*******

beast - prob town, i have 2 hydra games with him where we were both town so im going from that to say hes town atm

this is the kind of metaplay scum feel obligated to make with someone they are familiar with. Not wanting beast to go "Why are you not townreading me, we've played together?" Gonna put boonskiies as town eventhough the "Look at me I'm gonna be hammerer" bugs me

[Jackel98]

No one talked about my innocent of random bystander. Or about me. Or about my obvious towniness.

[Cheetory6]

With claim, the questioning instead of actually analyzing the case makes more sense. I basically don't think Sera would have gone into this situation in this manner if he didn't think he could get away with focusing just on claim mechanics, so I basically believe the claim, but I don't know if he's town or scum bulletproof/redirector.
Assuming Heartless is town and Aero didn't shoot Heartless, Sera being mafia bulletproof could potentially explain why mafia didn't die when taking a shot at Heartless. I do kind of question why Sera would 1v1 Heartless like this as scum, but I also kind of feel like he just knows that it would be hard to shake off Heartless and thus creating a dumb, noisy 1v1 would probably eventually shake off suspicion. I can already kind of feel the situation disarming a bit, so I can't help but feel that may have been his intention in the first place by attacking Heartless's role instead of their argument for him being scum.

@Sera

, do you think it's at all plausible that you and Heartless could have differently functioning bulletproofs? Like, do you think it's possible that the mod would have informed Heartless that upon getting the bulletproof, it was ruined?

nobody is this bad

That's silly.
Don't be silly.

[Cheetory6]

I'm basically also feeling pretty WTF at the idea of there being two bulletproof based roles and with what Aero's role was and any other potential protection roles being in the game it seems pretty stacked against nightkills in a ridiculous way that seems unrealistic to me.

Also, did Sera claim that ika targetted him?

[Cheetory6]

Also,
VOTE: Seraphim.
Full-BPs don't get informed they're shot, normally.
X-shot BPs near-universally DO get informed they're shot, soyeah.

Hi why does this make Sera scum?

[Heartless]

Assuming Heartless is town and Aero didn't shoot Heartless, Sera being mafia bulletproof could potentially explain why mafia didn't die when taking a shot at Heartless. I do kind of question why Sera would 1v1 Heartless like this as scum, but I also kind of feel like he just knows that it would be hard to shake off Heartless and thus creating a dumb, noisy 1v1 would probably eventually shake off suspicion. I can already kind of feel the situation disarming a bit, so I can't help but feel that may have been his intention in the first place by attacking Heartless's role instead of their argument for him being scum.

^^^^^^see, this is what i was thinking, gamma

and that's what i'm still thinking

[4nxi3ty]

@Cheet, I bet bulge's ineffective vig works on the bp part, and there's the pgo, and I bet there's other stuff like that out there

No one talked about my innocent of random bystander. Or about me. Or about my obvious towniness.

lot's a talk going on at the table

be louder?