Drawn on Arrival: The Movie: The Game (GAME OVER!)

[Reina]

Really wanted Sera to actually show up and answer my questions and go into more detail of his reads : /

If he doesn't by tonight I guess I can vote him and get everything going towards day 3.

You absolutely insisted Sera was town and your current wagon is viable. What's with this post?

bro wagon seemed to be dying out before you jumped on it after I did that

Also I'm not actually thaaat confident in Sera-town without him having some detailed reads to go over in addition to the 1v1 stuff. Cause I do feel like doing the 1v1 in that way is more likely to be town but I'm more likely to be wrong about that if he isn't putting up other reads that I can sift through and analyze.

[Bookitty]

I'm pleased to be of interest to you, but you are totally wasting your time on me

Feel free, though.

Also, you're overstating what Reina has said pretty significantly there, Heartless. Read it over again.

[Boonskiies]

BRO's town. vote sera.

[Seraphim]

I'll need to handle this later tonight, I have been really busy these last few days.

[Psyche]

vote sera

im bein wishy washy

[Heartless]

Also, you're overstating what Reina has said pretty significantly there, Heartless. Read it over again.

I actually did, Boo!

What I found was him giving lip to Antihero:

Yeah I reread a little and disagree with pretty much everything you wrote in that last paragraph there Heartless

-Him creating/causing the 1v1 in the first place is way way more likely to come from town

-He sees a pretty clear possible scum motivation from you trying to become conf. town and is confident enough about it to try to use everything that possibly points to you being scum to get you lynched

-"isn't a town way to go about a 1v1" honestly feels like a really bullshit copout about what he's doing being antitown and not good play instead of why it's more likely to be coming from scum behaviorally.

don't want to lynch him at all.

Antihero and Cheetory both pointed out that Sera didn't engage the initial case and he characterized that point as a "really bullshit copout." It was also pretty clear this whole time that Sera didn't give reads outside of us or theamateur. The only thing that's apparently tempered the Sera town read is what Cheetory pointed out about Sera hard townreading us Day 1, but even then it was a "I have to think about it" thing.

It's one thing to be for expediency, but I don't think Bookitty defecting from the wagon is enough cause to give up on it altogether, especially for something he was so vehemently against not too long ago.

[Reina]

Well i know he didn't give outside reads beforehand

I asked him specifically for them and thought he would, and he didn't

You can believe what you want i guess though.

[Reina]

Like not giving outside reads when there's a ton of stuff going on all around you

and not giving outside reads after specifically being asked for outside reads

are pretty clearly different imo.

[Flubbernugget]

@Flubber

, you should stop being IDK on sera. Looks like you're trying to avoid taking a stance. Marquis wagon isn't happening today.

I'll be a little more specific.

I don't remember Seraph's D1 play and good luck getting me to re-read.

Seraph has obvious scumpoints for his case on Heartless, but his revision of it seems to come from a town mindset. It's a reevaluation that doesn't continue to make a case on Heartless, something I think scum would have difficulty doing.

So please explain how one case is stronger than the other because they're both weighing out in my mind.

[Heartless]

Like not giving outside reads when there's a ton of stuff going on all around you

and not giving outside reads after specifically being asked for outside reads

are pretty clearly different imo.

So you think he's purposefully dodging your question?

[Reina]

Like not giving outside reads when there's a ton of stuff going on all around you

and not giving outside reads after specifically being asked for outside reads

are pretty clearly different imo.

So you think he's purposefully dodging your question?

not really intentionally? it's just that I think it takes a long time to come up with actual legitimate looking reads as scum since you don't constantly have people's alignments in your head as the game goes on, and if he's scum he knows that coming in with something mediocre is just going to get him lynched, so he might be waiting until the last minute to do them maybe well enough to save him

and I think that having legitimate reads is kind of the most readable thing you can do in the game and I'm a lot less comfortable pushing to save someone if they look like they aren't going to put anything up that might indicate that

and i kind of just want to stall until sera gets in here and if the reads are actually really likely coming from town then i can go ham on actually convincing people to not lynch him, but there's pretty clearly a point where I have to assume he's not going to bother and question whether my read on him is actually correct, especially with the amount of people that do see a scum motivation for what he's doing.

[Heartless]

I'll need to handle this later tonight, I have been really busy these last few days.

awesome

[Heartless]

Like not giving outside reads when there's a ton of stuff going on all around you

and not giving outside reads after specifically being asked for outside reads

are pretty clearly different imo.

So you think he's purposefully dodging your question?

not really intentionally? it's just that I think it takes a long time to come up with actual legitimate looking reads as scum since you don't constantly have people's alignments in your head as the game goes on, and if he's scum he knows that coming in with something mediocre is just going to get him lynched, so he might be waiting until the last minute to do them maybe well enough to save him

and I think that having legitimate reads is kind of the most readable thing you can do in the game and I'm a lot less comfortable pushing to save someone if they look like they aren't going to put anything up that might indicate that

and i kind of just want to stall until sera gets in here and if the reads are actually really likely coming from town then i can go ham on actually convincing people to not lynch him, but there's pretty clearly a point where I have to assume he's not going to bother and question whether my read on him is actually correct, especially with the amount of people that do see a scum motivation for what he's doing.

hey man,

you're going about the sera read in a really sleazy way and tth is scumreading you for it and while i don't agree i don't really blame her

[Heartless]

Anyone who thinks I'm scum is literally a dumbass who should never play mafia again

Spoiler:

Your claim to this defense is pretty tenuous. Care to back it up with anything that doesn't require any knowledge of your play in previous games?

Sure - basic mafia theory.

i see ya' at the bottom

i expect to be dazzled

[Reina]

@heartless- I get why you'd/they'd be scumreading me but I've explained my thought process here pretty much to the best of my ability, and it's not like you saying that is going to change anything at all here. Personally I'd rather you stop going on about me for so many posts when I'm clearly not going to be lynched today and probably not tomorrow either and it kind of just feels like filler content that isn't going to help anyone read either of us at this point, but I doubt you're going to change how you're playing just because I think it's potentially a way for scum to produce content with a little bit less potential for meaningful connections.

[Heartless]

oh fucking give me a break, gamma

[Varsoon]

I don't think BRO is town, but maybe that's because my scumdar is broken?
I dunno, man.

[Cheetory6]

What's BRO's towngame like?

[Heartless]

@Psyche-Their posting is surface-level fine but still not sure about them being town at all.

if this isn't filler i don't know what is. you're doing the exact same thing to us and we're even less likely to be lynched than you.

if you're going to scold tth for asking you how the fuck your sera read is evolving, you look hypocritical when you fling shit at us for no substantiated reason

[Cheetory6]

So please explain how one case is stronger than the other because they're both weighing out in my mind.

Do you think Marquis's interactions with you are objectively scummy? Like, can you explain where you're coming from when you say he's as scummy as Sera, because that isn't clear to me.

Sera seems like scum largely based on tone and timing of his posts. The manner in which he's addressing the suspicion on him seems to be coming from a place of self-preservation, rather than a place of genuinely trying to sort the game. His kneejerk attack on Heartless was especially bad because he was hard townreading them on D1. Waiting to hear a more comprehensive post from him, but as of right now he's done nothing that hasn't struck me as plausibly being scum just trying to stay alive.

@Heartless

, I'm not seeing scumBRO from what's been said about him so far/what I've seen from him so far.

[Reina]

@Psyche-Their posting is surface-level fine but still not sure about them being town at all.

if this isn't filler i don't know what is. you're doing the exact same thing to us and we're even less likely to be lynched than you.

if you're going to scold tth for asking you how the fuck your sera read is evolving, you look hypocritical when you fling shit at us for no substantiated reason

i was asked a question so i answered it

just feels like i'm trying to share opinions and thought processes because you're asking me about them and you're just poking at my play when none of your comments are actually going to matter for several more days

[Cheetory6]

Boon, are you scum this game? Why are you so unremarkable when it's friggin' D2 yoh?

[Reina]

man i bet if i hammered Sera now Heartless would go completely insane

I probably will hammer if sera doesn't come do things before I get back from the bar tonight though.

[Flubbernugget]

So please explain how one case is stronger than the other because they're both weighing out in my mind.

Do you think Marquis's interactions with you are objectively scummy? Like, can you explain where you're coming from when you say he's as scummy as Sera, because that isn't clear to me.

Sera seems like scum largely based on tone and timing of his posts. The manner in which he's addressing the suspicion on him seems to be coming from a place of self-preservation, rather than a place of genuinely trying to sort the game. His kneejerk attack on Heartless was especially bad because he was hard townreading them on D1. Waiting to hear a more comprehensive post from him, but as of right now he's done nothing that hasn't struck me as plausibly being scum just trying to stay alive.

So when I said 2 cases I didn't mean marquis vs. seraph, I meant seraph!town vs seraph!scum.

Like I'm seeing the majority viewpoint on seraph and then I'm seeing my own viewpoint on him. They're in direct conflict and there's no real way to make one more objective than the other.

[Seraphim]

Alright. Here we go.

Reina: to answer your question about Arist, I would point to his posts 10561199 to get specific. Generally speaking, his assessment of the Heartless/Myself conflict seemed fair-minded and earnest. His play seems very earnest and off-the-cuff in a way that I don't think would come from scum.

Why the certainty for theamateur being scum? His play has been textbook active lurking with dashes of opportunistic wagoning. Every time he posts, it is just a reminder that he has yet to do anything in this game besides post one-liners in response to quotes. Just get yourself into his ISO for a while, man, and tell me how his play DOESN'T come from scum.

Now to answer to Heartless's case against me after all this shit went down.

As Antihero's already stated, the überstrong townreads on us and pirate mollie were "overdone." We were both on the ika wagon for the better part of the day and actively pushing it and I had already expressed reservations about theamateur wagon at that point. Disappointingly, that never actually translated into tangible results.

They were perhaps "overdone" in the sense that you and Mollie's fight was the first major event in the game and I got strong town reads from both of you, yet you two were the leading wagon. It was stupid and I felt the need to break those wagons up and get some actual scumhunting done.

Seraphim never made an effort to reach out to either of us on theamateur read in a meaningful way, opting instead to appeal to Psyche (Post 756) to resuccitate the wagon as ika's was gaining traction.

Maybe because I don't play like this? Maybe because I'm bad at games with huge amounts of players and tend to focus on a select few? Also, maybe because I had strong town reads on the two of you, I didn't feel the need to interact with you?

He treated Anti and I with this odd mixture of compliance (Post 566) and antagonism (Post 604) that doesn't quite fit with either the screw-everyone-else-I'm-a-badass-scumhunter and let's-get-shit-done-I'll-settle approaches. It ended up being this weird in-between that was dysfunctional and didn't really work optimally on either ends.

I will keep that in mind for my play in the future but I honestly don't know what this is supposed to mean. I'm a weird person. Also, did you expect me to treat you nicely when you were pushing me as scum and calling my reads overdone?

I think the most likely explanation is that all Seraphim's actions Day 1 were calculated to help ika's chances of survival and push a mislynch on town.

I will ask you conversely: why do you think theamateur is so likely to be town?