Newbie 1568: Cleveland Mafia - Game Over

[Netherspite]

If his actions were looking worse than

dodgy56

's hammer then why did you vote

dodgy56

and not

House

?

[House]

If his actions were looking worse than

dodgy56

's hammer then why did you vote

dodgy56

and not

House

?

And this kind of analysis & initiative is what helped me flip my read of Nether. If he was scum, he could have easily accepted Jake's answer and used it to fuel his redirection onto my wagon without further attempts to justify it.

Nether is actively trying to figure out the game, whereas Jake is being reactionary.

[Jake from State Farm]

If his actions were looking worse than

dodgy56

's hammer then why did you vote

dodgy56

and not

House

?

That post was made with the assumption if I was scum with dodgy.

I voted dodgy cause I didn't like the hammer and his play day 1 looked opportunistic to me.

[Jake from State Farm]

If his actions were looking worse than

dodgy56

's hammer then why did you vote

dodgy56

and not

House

?

And this kind of analysis & initiative is what helped me flip my read of Nether. If he was scum, he could have easily accepted Jake's answer and used it to fuel his redirection onto my wagon without further attempts to justify it.

Nether is actively trying to figure out the game, whereas Jake is being reactionary.

Yeah, cause you are trying to.figure things out right? Bullshit.you just buddy nether and decide a 1 v 1 is better than actually doing work to see if you are right.

I looked over both isos and decided your play makes the most sense. You can't say you have done the same, if you do its an outright lie

[House]

If his actions were looking worse than

dodgy56

's hammer then why did you vote

dodgy56

and not

House

?

That post was made with the assumption if I was scum with dodgy.

I voted dodgy cause I didn't like the hammer and his play day 1 looked opportunistic to me.

Where do you get that he's assuming any such thing? he stated quite clearly that he's leaning towards voting me.

That's awfully defensive.

[House]

Anyway, I can't tell for sure whether this game is

Jake from State Farm

's scum play or town play. I'm slightly leaning town though.

Yet Jake is accusing Nether of assuming he's scum. Sounds like worried scum that doesn't like having to answer a hard question.

[Jake from State Farm]

If his actions were looking worse than

dodgy56

's hammer then why did you vote

dodgy56

and not

House

?

That post was made with the assumption if I was scum with dodgy.

I voted dodgy cause I didn't like the hammer and his play day 1 looked opportunistic to me.

Where do you get that he's assuming any such thing? he stated quite clearly that he's leaning towards voting me.

That's awfully defensive.

Your response doesn't match the rest of the words posted, and there is absolutely no level of defensive in that post.

[Jake from State Farm]

Anyway, I can't tell for sure whether this game is

Jake from State Farm

's scum play or town play. I'm slightly leaning town though.

Yet Jake is accusing Nether of assuming he's scum. Sounds like worried scum that doesn't like having to answer a hard question.

Um, no I'm.not

[Jake from State Farm]

Where did I accuse nether of assuming I'm scum? Cause I didn't do any such thing

[Jake from State Farm]

Would you bus his partner in this situation we had at the beginning of D2 despite you're hating to bus?

House you must be "misreading" cause minus the typo where nether types his instead your, he was asking me if I was scum would I bus. My response back was under the assumption that if I were scum.

I think you are just mud slinging at this point, which seems unnecessary since I'm the one at l-1, not you.

[House]

If his actions were looking worse than

dodgy56

's hammer then why did you vote

dodgy56

and not

House

?

That post was made with the assumption if I was scum with dodgy.

I voted dodgy cause I didn't like the hammer and his play day 1 looked opportunistic to me.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yeah, now read post 898 again and see where nether is asking me if I would have busses if I were scum...

[Jake from State Farm]

Bussed*

[Jake from State Farm]

See,why are you so desperate? I'm at l-1, not you

[Netherspite]

@Jake from State Farm

Yeah, initial question had

if you were scum

part.
However, now I'm curious about why didn't you vote worse-looking player as

town

. Shouldn't we lynch the scummiest player? That's what I'm asking you about.

@House

You really misinterpreted our discussion. He never said I'm assuming he's scum. Explained above.

[Jake from State Farm]

Cause at the time I really didn't think what house did was that bad, he just seemed sure of himself which I can relate cause that's how I used to be. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt

[House]

Ok, so I don't have the time or energy to do an extended ISO analysis of JFSF, but a cursory glance threw up some red flags.

VOTE: Jackal711

I don't buy the convenient scumread from an experienced player.

are you referring to his dodgy scumread?

Why would you feel the need to ask this question when it was rather clear who he was scumreading?

This looke like you are forcing an associative to point back to later.

Well town shouldn't throw out all their reads anyway

And this is terrible. Encouraging town to withhold information is pro-scum.

right, the second part of that was aimed at house lol
if someone thinks you're town, then starts looking into you, what is your reaction?
earlier, you argued with house about prawn. What are your current thoughts on the house vs prawn fight?

Im a weird person, I typically don't mind if people think I'm scum, but if people start trying to lynch me I defend myself strongly. If someone town reads me then thinks I'm scum, I make sure the at least have a reason for the switch. But to me the reasons are always wrong anyway lol

I kinda think house genuinely thought prawn was scum, he was too adamant about lynching him, its sort of like I do when I'm sure I've found scum. So I lean town on house but totally understand why people think he could be scum

Subtly encouraging my wagon but keeping your distance from it.

First, thank you for answering my first set of questions. I do have more though that occurred to me.
So, you still feel that Dodgy's hammer is the biggest scum tell we currently have?
Do you have a Night analysis at all? If yes I wouldn't mind hearing it.
Do you have any other case on Dodgy, besides his hammer? If so I Definitely want to hear it.

1. I feel it is definitely worth pressuring him on, there was plenty of time left and prawn was asked questions so it looked like he was hammering to prevent him from speaking which is scummy,

plus I don't like how he basically puts the blame on house instead of taking responsibility for his own actions.

Does anyone really think scum would do this to their partner?

This statement does not jibe with your "new & terrible" decision to vote me.

3: i believe his response today was honest and that if he was trying to goad me into voting prawn as a test he would have said so rather than continue to say he prawn was scummy. his honesty does make me think he is likely town
4: certainly possible. i would say he is experienced enough to attempt a gambit here. but i dont have the evidence to justify that is what he is doing?

Is the only reason you ate going after him due to him goading you or is there more? If more, explain cause to me it looks like he's your fallguy

Why would scum make their partner their fallguy?

[Netherspite]

@Jake from State Farm

Okay, but when I asked whether you would bus at that point, you said that you would not because

House

was looking worse.
That means you considered him looking worse at that point. Where am I wrong?

@House

These points are valid, but some of them could be explained by WIFOM.
Why would scum do this or that? Because no one would expect them to.
In fact, your association to

dodgy56

is so obvious I would straight away decide to lynch you if you would be newbie.
But the scum wouldn't do that exactly because it's so obvious.
But they could do that for the sake of WIFOM.
But...
You got my point.

[House]

I could see an IC making newbscum the fallguy... but dodgy making ME the fallguy when my record is better as scum than town?

Not freakin' hardly.

[Netherspite]

Couldn't you instruct him to do so in scum PT during N1 ?

[Netherspite]

Besides that, he in fact did say that you're

town

because of the goading, not the scum.

Jake from State Farm

just misread his post.

[Jake from State Farm]

And this is terrible. Encouraging town to withhold information is pro-scum.

You can call it terrible all you want but I can point to many games where I share this sentiment. Giving list reads is the single worst thing any player can do.

[Jake from State Farm]

Subtly encouraging my wagon but keeping your distance from it.

Or maybe I just didn't find what you did.that scummy at the time. But also didn't feel you were worth defending.

[Jake from State Farm]

Does anyone really think scum would do this to their partner?

If they wanted to distance from them, yes.

[Netherspite]

Withholding some of the information is good for the town as long as it is revealed later (when it is needed) and it is serving specific purpose (for example I sometimes don't state that I'm scumreading someone until I perform some reaction tests and make sure I'm right or have high chance to be right).