Mini 1649: Jabberwocky Mafia (Game Over)

[AxleGreaser]

You seem to use double talk a lot when explaining things.
Please link me to your town and scum game.

already done #28

Double talk:

93 states scum read reason based on meta. it is refuted shortly afterwards. 94 97
You pursue the read basing meta on just two games despite knowing there are claimed counter examples 95
You challenge Mollie to refute meta read based on examples of meta you chose 170
You are all aboard the basis of your meta read....

but you want me to explain....

Also I don't doubt or question when players say titus has been chatty when there is more then one stating that, but again you axle have yet to explain to me how my read coming into this and expressing my view at the time means anything?

I don't and didn't say, i had (real) problem about what you did

"at the time"

, mistakes based on your personal experience of Titus meta is entirely plausible.

It was lack of curiosity, afterwards once it had been said in the thread that counter examples existed
and you bull headedly went ahead with but yes I have this example of titus being not chatty. (one example does not a meta make)
That was what piqued me.

Spoiler: rider (real)

Whats (real) mean: Mollies original point has some small merit even when you point out your personal meta experience is different. If you are scum you can use that, to make a false case, or not be interested enough verify that its true. meh.
and Then its that you didnt want to find out about the counter examples, earlier when you were told about them, that is my actual problem with your play.
BUT
Its still less than my concern about Tier.

More Double Talk:

VM, wants to claim

I think far is scum.

VOTE: farside a trillion times over

reason being I think her read on titus is bs.

yet
also wants what is known in ye olde Aus vernacular as "A bob each way". (a bob is old money)

if any1 wants help me convince guy that far is scum plz feel free to!!!

I think guy and i are gonna fight.

That is so bad I parodied the 194 offer here 218

---

So I will do you a deal.
if you stop double talking, I will stop responding to it.

You either think your meta read on Titus is still valid with the claimed counter examples or you dont. Say which clearly.
This post by VM

you

have

a really weird meta read on titus that is why I am sooper dooper sus of you.

Clearly is a claim they think you still

(

have

is present tense)

stand behind your Titus meta read.

[Witness Protection]

@ Elbirn There's also the possibility I'm wrong. That's why I need Town to help me puzzle it out!

pedit Reading.

[Witness Protection]

@ Axle Some people will only read tl/dr's. It might get you a larger viewership. I read walls, and sometimes write them.

[BRantz]

Do you think my scum read of you is misplaced? Or fabricated? Why am I barking up a wrong tree?

I know your scum read of me is misplaced. Do you feel I am lying about something in 191? What about it reads as off to you? I don't really have a way to refute your scum read of me based on the case I see you having against me, but I don't feel that it is necessarily fabricated. It just seems very weak.

I do think that spending this much time talking about meta issues is a waste of everyone's time. I only find meta to be marginally useful anyway, too many people have some amount of knowledge of their own meta to make it worth while, and to me this entire argument between farside and Axle looks like them finding each other scummy because they have different meta reads.

[Witness Protection]

@far: I don't tend to have good reads until about midway through day 1 usually, I am a read the thread type, but don't respond to things unless I have something constructive to add to them. I have a hard time in the rvs/early game stage applying much content because of this. A lot of the time I tend to fall on the side of asking players questions once I start to have reads on them because I find answers to questions more constructive than giving my own opinions (though I will give opinions if I think they are really needed or asked about them).

Post has a formal tone, to me. It just doesn't seem to flow naturally. Sounds a little self conscious.

[BRantz]

Do you not feel self conscious when talking about things you find to be flaws in yourself, game or otherwise?

[T S O]

I was genuinely considering having a post restriction to amuse myself, but decided against it.

[Titus]

Oh shoot, I just want to make everyone aware of this now, cuz I just realized. Beginning March 5th I'm going to have to V/LA until March 9th. I'm shipping up to Boston with some friends for, among other things, a geeky videogame con thing. I'll only have phone access and will try to keep up when I can, but I'll have no computer access and obviously a diminished ability to post/contribute. Apologies to all. :/

Bold so mod notices

[Titus]

Tier is scum, far is just a player who is wrong.

[goodmorning]

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!"

Votecount 1.10

TierShift [L-3] - Elbirn, Titus, AxleGreaser, Witness Protection

BRantz [L-5] - Valkyrie Mollie, hi im Yakko
Valkyrie Mollie [L-5] - farside22, T S O
AxleGreaser [L-6] - TierShift
Belisarius [L-6] - Seraphim
farside22 [L-6] - BRantz
hi im Yakko [L-6] - Aeronaut
Aeronaut [L-6] - Belisarius

Not Voting [0] -

With 13 alive, it takes

7

to lynch. The day will end in (expired on 2015-03-10 20:00:00).

[Witness Protection]

Do you not feel self conscious when talking about things you find to be flaws in yourself, game or otherwise?

What do you feel about my other scum reads? Especially 3D's replacement. Unfortunately I think Seraphim's going to be replaced too. I

hate

it when my scum reads are lurkers.

My scum read on you is tone, and if you're trying to solve this puzzle (for real), I don't think it's that big an obstacle to overcome. A reads list would help.

I lynch Townies as Town often. You will too if you keep playing. Don't worry about a scum read on you, help expose the scum.

Dumb meta question, is all your Mafia experience in your sig?

[TierShift]

Dodging the prod, hoping to have time to read tomorrow.

[BRantz]

I played a lot like 5 years ago on another site that doesn't seem to be around anymore, but my sig has all of my experience on this site.

As for a reads list I am starting to have more solid reads on people expect one in the next couple days.

[Elbirn]

I can show you a fairly recent example of a game being lost because someone couldn't logically see how Town could have a certain opinion/do what they thought was right. Town can cog-dis too. I try to see things from more than one view.

Sometimes

it works.

@ Elbirn There's also the possibility I'm wrong. That's why I need Town to help me puzzle it out!

This didn't really answer my questions.

In psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

What Farside did isn't Cog-Dis; she went on and on about how BRantz is scummy, and then voted VM instead for shaky reasons. Her reasoning doesn't contradict itself, as her reads aren't mutually exclusive. But I find the thought process behind her attacking BRantz for scumminess and then voting someone else for little reason at the time, and then coming up with more reasons later (something about meta or something I can't be bothered to translate that mess), to not be a natural thought process. Do you disagree?

And to repeat my questions:

1.

Farside sticks to incredulousness that looks real.

What does this mean?

2. What is your read on Farside, and what reasons do you have for that read?

[Witness Protection]

There is nothing scummy about having town reads and not wanting to lynch players, added none of the players Mollie states did brantz state a scum read in.

As for Mollie, well I've seen players have town reads early, I found her wording on never willing to lynch pretty useless too. Again reads a bit buddyish/over the top unnecessary.

She did vote VM with this post. She went from nothing scummy with (Town reads) to saying they are essentially worthless (mollie's reads) I think a scum read's reads are worth something. You are right though, there isn't as much (very little cog-dis) as I thought just going from memory.

I like how she's expressed her scum reads, fought to be clear, without admitting she's wrong, came around to "though I know Titus thus, others might know her differently". Does this make her "Town I'll never ever vote"? No, but not a good Day 1 lynch IMO.

[Seraphim]

I guess I've been prodded, so I should probs read and post in this game huh.

[Elbirn]

I guess I've been prodded, so I should probs read and post in this game huh.

It'd be nice if you'd play, yeah.

You voted for Belisarius a long while back, with no explanation. You're so under the radar the only reason I noticed is because I decided to ISO you, and was woefully underwhelmed with your 5 posts. Wherein you have 3 excuses for not playing and 2 votes without reasons.

But I digress.

If you're going to vote for Beli, would you care to share your reasons with the rest of the class?
And if you'd please take the time to read the thread, and then share any thoughts you have? Kthx.

[Elbirn]

There is nothing scummy about having town reads and not wanting to lynch players, added none of the players Mollie states did brantz state a scum read in.

As for Mollie, well I've seen players have town reads early, I found her wording on never willing to lynch pretty useless too. Again reads a bit buddyish/over the top unnecessary.

She did vote VM with this post. She went from nothing scummy with (Town reads) to saying they are essentially worthless (mollie's reads) I think a scum read's reads are worth something. You are right though, there isn't as much (very little cog-dis) as I thought just going from memory.

I like how she's expressed her scum reads, fought to be clear, without admitting she's wrong, came around to "though I know Titus thus, others might know her differently". Does this make her "Town I'll never ever vote"? No, but not a good Day 1 lynch IMO.

Ah, so that's where the cog-dis was. Gotcha.

Thanks for bringing those posts up, I hadn't really noticed them. I'm not sure how to feel about that.It sounds like Far's comment in 163 is that BRantz post is scummy because he's expressing the idea that having strong townreads is bad. But she says no less than 20 minutes later that she doesn't like Mollie's buddying...Whiiiich appears to be contradictory.

@Farside

: Can you please explain the above? Why is BRantz post bad, but you express the same idea a few posts later and it's okay?

If I'm not mistaken you still scumread both BRantz and VM. Do you think they could be scum together?

[Seraphim]

Beli was a gut vote I believe. I have not been reading this game so I'll have to get on that and provide some actual reads.

[GuyInFreezer]

But I think beli is town.

[GuyInFreezer]

Mollie quote for me please.

[Valkyrie Mollie]

But I think beli is town.

Mollie quote for me please.

[Valkyrie Mollie]

axle I have no idea what you are tying to say in your big long post cos it doesn't make sense to me cos I am not sure how I can be any more transparent then stating that I think far is scum and I thought guy and I were going to fight cos when we talked prior he wasn't seeing it.

also tso read just took a dive i thought that he was town cos of the pr and i thought that it was obs and now he is saying he was faking it. last time I saw some1 faking 1 they were scum.

[T S O]

but would I really pick it up and drop it as scum

ask yourself this

[farside22]

There is nothing scummy about having town reads and not wanting to lynch players, added none of the players Mollie states did brantz state a scum read in.

As for Mollie, well I've seen players have town reads early, I found her wording on never willing to lynch pretty useless too. Again reads a bit buddyish/over the top unnecessary.

She did vote VM with this post. She went from nothing scummy with (Town reads) to saying they are essentially worthless (mollie's reads) I think a scum read's reads are worth something. You are right though, there isn't as much (very little cog-dis) as I thought just going from memory.

I like how she's expressed her scum reads, fought to be clear, without admitting she's wrong, came around to "though I know Titus thus, others might know her differently". Does this make her "Town I'll never ever vote"? No, but not a good Day 1 lynch IMO.

Ah, so that's where the cog-dis was. Gotcha.

Thanks for bringing those posts up, I hadn't really noticed them. I'm not sure how to feel about that.It sounds like Far's comment in 163 is that BRantz post is scummy because he's expressing the idea that having strong townreads is bad. But she says no less than 20 minutes later that she doesn't like Mollie's buddying...Whiiiich appears to be contradictory.

@Farside

: Can you please explain the above? Why is BRantz post bad, but you express the same idea a few posts later and it's okay?

If I'm not mistaken you still scumread both BRantz and VM. Do you think they could be scum together?

Town reads are normal. Adding the will not lynch was unnecessary.
Adding it on page 5 was unnecessary. Brantz I thought was complaining about having the town reads.

Axel is starting to be a scum read.