Mini #1647: Eine Kleine Nacht-Mord, Game Over

[onion]

lurking and lying aren't town-tells. it might prove he's a bad player, and i believe it. i'm willing to give him null-tell for being reliably bad, but that still results in a player we know nothing about because he's never posted, which is what the policy lynch is about.

[prawneater]

@snscompt1

I think your list is fake.

I call B.S. on you reading Llama as town. Which Llama posts do you like? Do you like any of his cases?

Need to reread and ISO
CD
Prawn

This feels like a convenient way of keeping your lynch options open. You'd think someone making a readslist would have fully read the game.

Scum:
NJAC(because of Marquis. Meta. Reasons)
Onion-My evil twin. As scum I typically try to write out all of the facts to help keep my story straight and prove to others how "we" can win by logic. I barely read half his posts though. I couldn't handle it

This is way too bandwagony. You're going to have to elaborate on your Marquis read. I don't know if I like your onion reasoning much either. Do you have an example of you playing like onion as scum?

[prawneater]

lurking and lying aren't town-tells. it might prove he's a bad player, and i believe it. i'm willing to give him null-tell for being reliably bad, but that still results in a player we know nothing about because he's never posted, which is what the policy lynch is about.

OK we agree: the slot is null.

Now how bout you push some scumreads?

[snscompt1]

@snscompt1

I think your list is fake.

I call B.S. on you reading Llama as town. Which Llama posts do you like? Do you like any of his cases?

Need to reread and ISO
CD
Prawn

This feels like a convenient way of keeping your lynch options open. You'd think someone making a readslist would have fully read the game.

Scum:
NJAC(because of Marquis. Meta. Reasons)
Onion-My evil twin. As scum I typically try to write out all of the facts to help keep my story straight and prove to others how "we" can win by logic. I barely read half his posts though. I couldn't handle it

This is way too bandwagony. You're going to have to elaborate on your Marquis read. I don't know if I like your onion reasoning much either. Do you have an example of you playing like onion as scum?

[prawneater]

VOTE: snscompt1

Answer my questions.

[snscompt1]

UNVOTE
VOTE Prawn

Quite asking stupid questions.

[prawneater]

lol

Hey everyone! I found a scum!

[onion]

oh great he really IS another tripod. we don't need more Anti-town in here.

push scum reads... ok. i scumread tripod. he's on the cogito list. he bandwagons. he's anti-town. he l-1'd llama who hadn't posted yet. and he keeps making suggestions that if followed would entirely screw the town. they are 'jokes' apparently. least that's the story when people call him on it.

also oops, that list of Tripod votes had a typo. Tripod voted for Marquis in 309, not 209.

i think a policy lynch on the marquis slot would be ok. its kinda shitty to have NJAC read 20 pages only to die, but a real lurker like this is really really not good for us. there's a reason the policy lynch exists, and the policy lynch is pro-town.

i haven't deep think'd about llama and prawn yet.

[onion]

>_> --------------> sns

[Derangement]

@tripod
i was hoping for a read on his inactive shitty slot. the 'good' answers were 'yes i'm VT' which i would have read as 'yes, the situation that marquis was in warrented a vt claim and i might be scum because of it.' or 'no i'm not going to claim' which i'd read as 'i disagree with what marquis did in that situation' which would give me a reason to not try to policy lynch him because the policy lynch is good.

Why didn't you just ask if he agreed with Marquis' decision to claim, then?

@you can't have your cake and eat it too
i'm more suggesting that he re-affirm or don't re-affirm his claim. Marquis was terrible and lied, and there's no reason to believe the roleclaim meant what we think it meant.

Why do you want to know what someone's role is?

When

do you want to know what someone's role is?

i think a policy lynch on the marquis slot would be ok. its kinda shitty to have NJAC read 20 pages only to die, but a real lurker like this is really really not good for us. there's a reason the policy lynch exists, and the policy lynch is pro-town.

I'm getting mixed signals here.

Do you think a policy lurker-lynch is

better

than lynching one of your scum-reads?
If you can, please explain exactly what you'd hope to accomplish with a NJAC policy lynch.

[onion]

i'd be most happy with a tripod lynch because he's my biggest scum-read right now. however, seeing how i'm the only vote on him, with a deadline looming, i'd be willing to settle for second best, being the policy lynch. (subject to change a la big thinks). The policy lynch exists for a reason. it becomes less affordable to lynch lurkers as the game progresses, so either you should lynch them early or not at all. never lynching lurkers means that there are just wildcards out there that you can't read, who might be scum. that's a losing prospect. but maybe i'm just mad at the slot because Marquis lied. I'd REALLY like to lynch marquis for lying, but we can't do that. i dunno. i'll add it to the big think list.

[Derangement]

i'd be most happy with a tripod lynch because he's my biggest scum-read right now. however, seeing how i'm the only vote on him, with a deadline looming, i'd be willing to settle for second best, being the policy lynch. (subject to change a la big thinks).

This makes sense.
I'm curious what you consider a big change, though.

but maybe i'm just mad at the slot because Marquis lied. I'd REALLY like to lynch marquis for lying, but we can't do that. i dunno. i'll add it to the big think list.

Yeah, I'm not a fan either.
Doesn't mean I'm not going to push my scum reads first, though.

Especially when it only takes four votes to lynch at deadline, so no-lynching is unlikely to happen.

@you can't have your cake and eat it too
i'm more suggesting that he re-affirm or don't re-affirm his claim. Marquis was terrible and lied, and there's no reason to believe the roleclaim meant what we think it meant.

Why do you want to know what someone's role is?

When

do you want to know what someone's role is?

If you can, please either acknowledge you understand why I'm asking these questions, or answer them.

[Derangement]

Rawr. Checking in and will catch up in a bit.

Hiya!
Welcome to the nuthouse!

All done.

Holy poop, that was fast!

Onion-My evil twin. As scum I typically try to write out all of the facts to help keep my story straight and prove to others how "we" can win by logic. I barely read half his posts though. I couldn't handle it.

VOTE: Onion

This is just bad.

If you wanted to catch scum, you would

not

skim someone's posts because what you see so far looks iffy.
You'd happily gobble them all up, then bury the player under a massive pile of evidence.

@snscompt1

I think your list is fake.

I call B.S. on you reading Llama as town. Which Llama posts do you like? Do you like any of his cases?

UNVOTE
VOTE Prawn

Quite asking stupid questions.

There's no way you'd think those questions are stupid, unless they hit too close to home.

UNVOTE: Onion
VOTE: snscompt1

lol

Hey everyone! I found a scum!

*High five!*

[ChannelDelibird]

I kind of really like prawneater's 476. I'm pretty happy with him as town enough for Today, at least, and it definitely makes me want to consider an snscompt vote.

While I'm not certain enough to say 'these three are the scumteam', I think my vote Today is going to one of sns, onion and Llama. I probably most want to vote for Llama of the three but I'm mindful of the fact that he's certainly someone who thinks quite differently to me in general and it's not impossible that that's why he's reaching conclusions that I personally just can't comprehend at all. But it does

feel

wrong, and it does seem like he's not being entirely truthful (re: me on prawn, for example).

I've cooled on TTH a bit; I could see that being just me being wrong.

[snscompt1]

*sigh*

This is just bad.

If you wanted to catch scum, you would not skim someone's posts because what you see so far looks iffy.
You'd happily gobble them all up, then bury the player under a massive pile of evidence.

I could. But that's not how I do things. I'm not very good with making cases. So if you're voting me because I don't scum hunt like you, then shame.

There's no way you'd think those questions are stupid, unless they hit too close to home.

You take things too literal. You're sweet. I like you.

What were his first words to me?

I think your list is fake.

I spent a couple hours rereading this thread(granted skipping some walls) and arrived at some very satisfying conclusions. Instead of someone questioning the reasoning on my reads or agreeing with me or anything, I'm insulted. Well fuck him too. He wants to ask questions after blatantly insulting me? No. Not happening.

His next words were:

I call B.S. on you reading Llama as town.

Again: fuck off. After reading the thread that's how I read llama. Who the hell are you to tell me otherwise?
"Oh ho ho. I'm prawn and fuck your reads list because I said so."
Shove it.

Since you brought it up, I will answer the questions:

Which Llama posts do you like? Do you like any of his cases?

I can go back and quote if needed, but that's not why I read llama town. It's the whole. I like most of his posts. I don't agree with them, but I do like them.
I don't like his cases, but I like way he approaches them. I don't understand the whole CES arguments on anyone.

This feels like a convenient way of keeping your lynch options open. You'd think someone making a readslist would have fully read the game.

If you do that then great. Otherwise, here's my foot.
I did reread the game. I skimmed the walls, not skipped.
You and CD had a few posts scattered. You two werent' constantly engaging in discussion. However, you both weren't what I consider to be lurking. You both were on the edge.
So basically, I would see a post from you or CD and then 50 posts later after an engaging discussion you post again. So by the end of reading, I have no idea where I stand on you two. So, I said I will review and ISO you two.
If I didn't end up doing that, then it would be a reason to vote me. But nope. Right off the bat you call bullshit. *opens door*

This is way too bandwagony. You're going to have to elaborate on your Marquis read. I don't know if I like your onion reasoning much either. Do you have an example of you playing like onion as scum?

Oh. Excuse me. I don't like Onion. So I shouldn't vote Onion because others are already voting him.
If you're too fucking blind to see it, I'm a replacement. My views are my views after reading the entire thread. Not as things progress. Would you be saying I was bandwagon if Bubs had been replaced 10 pages ago? No.
Why you ask? Because then it would seem normal. I'm a replacement, so all my thoughts are output when I get replaced in and catch up. I can't change the timing of that. Don't be dense.

My Marquis read? I've played with them many times and we always clash. This lurking is not alignment indicative in itself, but that was excessive even for Marquis and it is being seen not just through them but the slot. That shouldve been lynched a long time ago.

You don't like my onion reasoning? What's new. You're just full of insults aren't you? Well you aren't me. I see Onion as scum because of how I play. Don't like it? Too bad, I wasn't trying to convince you.
Would you rather I simply restate what others have already said about Onion? Would that have been better? Oh wait, that'd be bandwagony. Oh, so I if I want to vote him, I have to come up with brand new reasons? Oh wait, I related a personal experience and that was shut down too.
So the answer is to simply not vote Onion? If Onion flips scum, you're next.

Do I have an example? Probably. I haven't played on this site for 6 months. Go meta me and tell me what you find. I'm not doing you're work for you. I already know I'm town.

TL;DR No. Go read it. I got insulted and didn't like it.

[Untrod Tripod]

you really need to get over yourself and realize there's more ways to play this game than just your narrow interpretation of what is "pro town"

i provide post links because that's what i do, if you haven't noticed. i don't try to trick people into acting scummy, because that backfires too much. instead, i try to make people act pro-town, which makes them easier to notice if they are scum or not. giving people full information is a way to make them act pro-town when they are lazy.

This is an example of your unbelievable rigidity on 'how things are done' getting in the way of anything getting done. You've parked a god-awful vote on UT because he doesn't conform to your strict standards of pro-town behaviour, and now you say that you provided helpful links 'because that's what you do' when it would clearly be

far

more illuminating for NJAC to give an instinctual response without useful aids, so that we could contrast his behaviour to his predecessor's more transparently. This is obviously anti-town and I presume, given your well-documented objections to such behaviour, that you will be voting for yourself momentarily.

In post 375, Untrod Tripod wrote:you really need to get over yourself and realize there's more ways to play this game than just your narrow interpretation of what is "pro town"


I actually agree with this.

[Untrod Tripod]

let me just offer a counterpoint to the sns wagon:

if we lynch onion, we won't have to read his posts anymore!

[Untrod Tripod]

but holy fucking goddamn jesus, sns, that was a cringey series of posts

[Derangement]

you really need to get over yourself and realize there's more ways to play this game than just your narrow interpretation of what is "pro town"

I understand this.

I'm willing to let people convince me of their alignment, even when I disagree with their methods.
Your reaction test is a perfect example.

Doesn't mean that I won't suspect those that look fishy while they're at it.

[Untrod Tripod]

...that was aimed at onion, not you...

[Derangement]

...that was aimed at onion, not you...

Thought you were posting that in srs' defense.
Carry on, then!

[TellTaleHeart]

*Hey, What Do I Have to Do to Someone to Talk to Me Here?*

Most of what people are writing walls posts for right now are complete and total bullshit that is of use to fucking no one and, as a result, the game lacks focus. Like a cat chasing a laser beam, we're now on to our new

**~~shiny~~**

sns wagon when there's no cogent reason for it.

*

There's no reason for an onion wagon. The reasons for his read on LlamaFluff he gave after his initial wagon were very likely genuine.

You don't want to read onion's posts, UT? Don't! No one is making you.

Personally, I haven't read an onion post since page 7 and I'm getting along just fine!

*

There's no reason for an sns wagon right now. Onion Bubs was likely town and, though it contained a few lapses, sns's catch-up was acceptable.

*

The reasons behind the prawn wagon have yet to be established. Llama's case in Post 356 are cobbled together "tells" but it hardly establishes proof of guilt. Why were they scummy?

At this point, I would lynch either NJAC or LlamaFluff.

[petroleumjelly]

Day One, Vote Count #20

NJAC – 2 – TellTaleHeart, GuyInFreezer
onion – 2 – Untrod Tripod, Equinox
prawneater – 2 – LlamaFluff, snscompt1
snscompt1 – 2 – prawneater, Derangement
Untrod Tripod – 1 – onion

With

11 alive

it takes

6

to lynch and

4

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is

March 5, 2015, at 6:45 AM PST

.

Not Voting – 2 – ChannelDelibird, NJAC

Rule #1: Be Civil.

Don’t

be a jerk. This is a game. Thanks.

[TellTaleHeart]

Derangement, could you be a dear and vote NJAC or Llama, please?

[ChannelDelibird]

Onion, a UT lynch isn't going to happen Today. You should vote for somebody else.