Open 589: Duck Duck Goose (Game Over: Somebody Won)

[Storyteller]

Vote Count 1.05

With 12 alive it's 7 votes to Lynch.

Voting for:

Netherspite (1): Honey bee
davesaz (1): vettrock
talah (0):
Honey bee (0):
NJAC (0):
dodgy56 (1): oddmusic
vettrock (0):
Kaboose (0):
oddmusic (1): davesaz
ploben (0):

ChriVi (4): Talah, Netherspite, Kaboose, dodgy56

Taly (2): NJAC, ChriVi

If deadline is reached without any changes to the votes,

ChriVi

would be lynched.

Not voting (2): ploben, Taly

Deadline is March 22nd, 0600 UTC or in (expired on 2015-03-22 06:00:00)

[oddmusic]

--- What I meant by "if people are corresponding with others," I personally don't know if Mafia can speak to each other in another link during the day, and even without that idea, people during the day can manipulate how people see others through their own analysis on them. (Like, getting a wagon, or making someone dislike someone else, etc.)

Here's somthing linked off Storyteller's first post and which I didn't actually realise until just now:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... uck,_Goose!

Scum *do* have daytalk.

well then. glad you brought this up. i didnt know that

Uh, why did you feel the need to point this out? I mean, I'm glad to know there was scum daytalk as well, but I didn't feel the need to make a post about it.

[oddmusic]

I'm liking Honey Bee. Not so sure if I agree with her (?) vote on Nethersprite though, but I do think the push looks pretty townie.

Actually, @Honey Bee, what is the reason for your push on Nethersprite?

[Taly]

--- What I meant by "if people are corresponding with others," I personally don't know if Mafia can speak to each other in another link during the day, and even without that idea, people during the day can manipulate how people see others through their own analysis on them. (Like, getting a wagon, or making someone dislike someone else, etc.)

Here's somthing linked off Storyteller's first post and which I didn't actually realise until just now:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... uck,_Goose!

Scum *do* have daytalk.

well then. glad you brought this up. i didnt know that

Uh, why did you feel the need to point this out? I mean, I'm glad to know there was scum daytalk as well, but I didn't feel the need to make a post about it.

my posts: 138, 150, and 168 all kind of skimmed over why I felt I needed to point it out, 138 and 168 specifically........

Basically, I'm beginning to consider the idea that ChriVi could be town, and I think other people in and outside the game thread(scum day speak) is influencing how frequent some people are posting(NJAC and anyone else who could be put in this category), and/or scum who would be trying to manipulate towns perception on what is going on.

Plus, I thought it was good to let everyone be weary of this, now everyone can now think beyond just what is being said now. I think it'd be easier for us to know this to find who would or could be a suspect for lynch. If you want to know my currents thought on ChriVi, or anyone else, then you can refer back to the posts I just linked and ask questions if you still are unsure about something.

[ploben]

I'd like to hear more from NJAC and his reads. Not much content from you this game.
VOTE: NJAC

[Honey bee]

Okay, may be the first of those posts isn't directly OMGUS post, but point at single useful bit of information there?
The first sentence in the first quote I already addressed and explained why it is either misinterpreting or misrepresenting.
The second sentence in the first quote is basically fluff because yeah, you can spend 10 hours writing a post but no one really does that. What's the point in mentioning it?

The second post is basically claiming that their OMGUS vote is better than the vote on them.
So basically it is just an attempt to justify the OMGUS vote made earlier.

I think there point is that it doesn't really make sense to suggest it was an off the cuff reaction since anyone is allowed to think about how they are reacting beforehand. And I wouldn't describe their taly vote as omgus either but I don't think it was good reasoning either (seeing how he's a newer player and not really knowledgeable about what scum and town looks like). Though now I'm getting the impression a lot of people in this game don't like votes unless they're formatted into neat little cases so my vote isn't stuck to you yet.

Im on mobile so I cant quote it for you but like compare his interactions wih them to anyone else. He seems pretty content to lynch them already while making effort to get info from anyone else. I dont buy that his inital read was that strong or really evolved naturally as more players joined on.

What dont you buy about it?
this doesnt really fit with my impression of nether atm

The reason he initially voted them was weak and I didn't see any attempt to figure out chirvi's alignment. So I felt like his taunting of them wasn't a part of an evolved read but instead an excuse to keep pushing a grown wagon.

What is your impression of nether then? You like his 104, but I honestly don't see how this post could encourage chimvi to post anything useful if they're town.

I'm liking Honey Bee. Not so sure if I agree with her (?) vote on Nethersprite though, but I do think the push looks pretty townie.

Actually, @Honey Bee, what is the reason for your push on Nethersprite?

His posts pinged me the most, and most of the discussion revolved around the hydra so I wanted to look somewhere else. I'd be happier with his posts if he didn't look so comfortable with his vote this early.

[Taly]

This is a relatively quick and simple post, but it's just a question I want to ask that just occurred to me.

Honey Bee

- Do you have any reads on me, what are they?
- What do you think about Talah?

[Honey bee]

You haven't done anything to bother me yet. you're coming across as deeply involved in your thought process and I don't think that's something you've learned to fake yet.

Talah.. umm.. I'm going to wait there :) Nothing bothersome either, but I could see talah as competent scum and I have to check my biases before townreading them.

[Taly]

You haven't done anything to bother me yet. you're coming across as deeply involved in your thought process and I don't think that's something you've learned to fake yet.

Talah.. umm.. I'm going to wait there Nothing bothersome either, but I could see talah as competent scum and I have to check my biases before townreading them.

Oh, ok, thanks for replying. My mind is reduced to mush right now... (IRL things going on, as well as other in-game things happening *on/off forum* that are messing with me. - I'll still be receptive and replying for the next few days, it may just not be as abundant, or focused, though.)

[talah]

Scum *do* have daytalk.

This is why I retracted from ChriVi, aside from what ploben was saying.

Alright, you do mention corresponding in the post where you unvoted, so good-o. I'm not quite sure how that makes you think ChriVi is more town unless it's a gut-averages of 'other people possibly corresponding more likely scum'.
I'm actually kind of surprised you didn't sort out the daytalk thing for yourself if you had it on your mind. It was two clicks away.
And no, I don't really have an opinion on you beyond what I've said and I may not for a while. I haven't got a full picture because I find your larger posts hard to read and so I'm more interested in pursing other avenues of investigation - Town leaning because Netherspite says so is good enough for me, at this stage.

Im on mobile so I cant quote it for you but like compare his interactions wih them to anyone else. He seems pretty content to lynch them already while making effort to get info from anyone else. I dont buy that his inital read was that strong or really evolved naturally as more players joined on.

Well I can't fault that he's content to lynch ChriVi because I don't have a better candidate if tomorrow was deadline. He is continuing to ask them questions which looks like a decent form of pressure - ie they're not going to lurk their wagon off. I'll note that his first post was a vote on ChriVi so there was no real need for the read to evolve, at least not in order to change the vote. I'm not really understanding the ping.

Taly looks town to me because i dont see a scum in their first game posting like that.

regarding Nether, i cant explain that right now. (it relates to another game currently ongoing -ill explain when i can)

also regarding nether, i agree with your conclusion but your premise is just wrong and no basis for an actual read.

I'm not trying to be facetious here but both of the reasons you just gave strike me as pretty wrong as well.

A first timer as Scum can be very confident and voluble and I'd say it would be harder for them over time, rather than something you could latch onto in a Day 1 post and say that it's an indicator they're town.

Regarding Nether, let's talk purely theoretically (and we can absolutely drop it if you can't stick with theory).
Meta across games is not something I'd say is useful, just knowing myself and how I play. I react differently to different situations and my meta's evolved almost from game to game. I've been attacked by scum and town both for changes in my play - so unless you're extremely familiar with a player I wouldn't be holding up game A and game B and saying they're both apples or one's an apple and the other's an orange.

That said - sometimes you've got to take a risk based on gut just for the sake of sorting and moving on. And the reason I've given is where my read on Nether comes from, and it's also not necessarily set in stone.

---
W-W-W-Wallll Breakerrrr

[talah]

Scum *do* have daytalk.

well then. glad you brought this up. i didnt know that

Uh, why did you feel the need to point this out? I mean, I'm glad to know there was scum daytalk as well, but I didn't feel the need to make a post about it.

Think of it as a Public Service Announcement then. I didn't realise until Taly mentioned it, then figured other townies probably wouldn't either.

Do you think I raised it just to get some towncred?

---

Not all that much else to respond to actually. The folks posting I'm pretty content to see how things pan out.

I'm actually just going to withhold saying anything else about the ChriVi scenario right now. Seems like Honey Bee and Netherspite are having some decent interactions and I feel like me adding input to that would actually be a detractor.

Also - thanks for the compliment HB - but I'm actually pretty terrible scum. You'll just have to take my word for it though.

[oddmusic]

Think of it as a Public Service Announcement then. I didn't realise until Taly mentioned it, then figured other townies probably wouldn't either.

Do you think I raised it just to get some towncred?

Maybe. Probably not. Was mostly just confused. Figured if I got a weird response I'd build off of that.

[oddmusic]

Oops, I just realized that that comment wasn't directed at you, but dodgy. That makes more sense. Carry on, carry on.

[talah]

It's weird but I'm going to take your confusion at your own post as a towntell. I feel like it's easily punishable.

[Netherspite]

@Honey bee

I've got what they were trying to say.
However, you can get caught off-guard as scum because you weren't expecting someone to suspect you that early. And if you get few votes on you... you can overreact because this push was unexpected.
My initial vote was more of a reaction test than a real vote. And the reaction was not what I expected from townie.
I'm still up for changing my opinion but they didn't do a single thing to change it.

@oddmusic

Funny enough, I'm liking

Honey bee

for town as well despite her suspicion on me.
I think it's rather her misunderstanding than scum pushing me to protect her buddy.

[ChriVi]

talah pls stop being hypocritical

I'll make a real post when it's not 2:30 AM bye now

[talah]

Nah don't even worry about it, what you've just posted is essentially so devoid of town that I obviously need to read you as town.

[Kaboose]

My top two scum reads are both voting my top town read... Hmmm...

[ploben]

My top two scum reads are both voting my top town read... Hmmm...

NJAC and ChriVi on Taly?

[davesaz]

My scum team right now is ChriVi and NJAC.

You posted a little bit about ChriVi, but I don't see any substantial comments about NJAC. Please explain.

[Kaboose]

I think I brought up the fact that he/she didn't want to leave RVS as my reason for being okay with him being lynched today.

[Kaboose]

My top two scum reads are both voting my top town read... Hmmm...

NJAC and ChriVi on Taly?

Yes.

[davesaz]

Here are my general impressions so far. I need to prepare for work so can't spend a lot of time quoting right now, but would be happy to explain later.

Town vibes from Taly, Talah, Honey Bee, Netherspite, oddmusic, Ploben.

Neutral for ChriVi. I see how many players took the caustic tone of ChriVi's posting and made it scum, but I don't buy that. I'd prefer to go on content over tone. The content isn't overly scummy, but it certainly isn't really town either.

Null for Vettrock, NJAC. Would need to see more activity.

Dodgy's few posts aren't inspiring. The vote on ChriVi seems opportunistic and I don't see any evidence of trying to figure things out. Weak scum.

Kaboose didn't explain reads very well, doesn't look as opportunistic as Dodgy but still lean scum.

VOTE: Dodgy56

[Kaboose]

dave, i'm going to lean the other way now, so that i'm lean town for you

[Taly]

Here are my general impressions so far. I need to prepare for work so can't spend a lot of time quoting right now, but would be happy to explain later.

Town vibes from Taly, Talah, Honey Bee, Netherspite, oddmusic, Ploben.

Neutral for ChriVi. I see how many players took the caustic tone of ChriVi's posting and made it scum, but I don't buy that. I'd prefer to go on content over tone. The content isn't overly scummy, but it certainly isn't really town either.

Null for Vettrock, NJAC. Would need to see more activity.

Dodgy's few posts aren't inspiring. The vote on ChriVi seems opportunistic and I don't see any evidence of trying to figure things out. Weak scum.

Kaboose didn't explain reads very well, doesn't look as opportunistic as Dodgy but still lean scum.

VOTE: Dodgy56

I'm having very similar thoughts as to this right about now, but I wouldn't say dodgy56 or Kaboose are leaning scum due to lack of explanation.

I would rather the two of them explain their reads in depth on most everyone here, and then we will learn more of their intentions and thoughts. They both seem a bit neutral or null-town to me otherwise.

Honey Bee's response about Talah being a competent scum interested me, but I'm going to trust Talah for now and say she is a stronger townie. As for my read on her, I've already said she and Talah are slight town lean to me.

I think the points against Netherspite are valid, but he hasn't said anything that is worth more pushing over(beyond what Honey Bee tried to get out of him), and I think his responses to ChriVi originally were meant to seem a little reactive. (Like trying to protect what he thinks are townies from someone who is either not helping, or creating a conflict.) That said, he is in the town lean with me so far.

oddmusic is still neutral but my gut is beginning to say he is town, I want to see what his reads are on most everyone here. I'm feeling safe with ploben being town as well, but I don't have a lot to back it up. He seems to be pretty good at getting his thoughts on others across. (Am I the only person who likes big posts? X_X)

Also, I don't like ChriVi's post at 190 --- I think they are still neutral, but their post seemed to be like "I'm not going to post now, but just so you know I am following you guys..." - especially when there is quite a few questions on them.

^^ I could be looking into it too much, but I'm saying this to encourage the idea that ChriVi

should

address some things at this point. Like: 150 178 and anything else someone would want to see from them.

Anyway, right now - I don't find a solid reason to want to vote for anyone because the people who most likely need to be prompted to do something are already being voted against and I think me making a move on someone right now could detract from other peoples suspicions. Also, I don't know what to say to NJAC not unvoting me, but I think he could be genuinely busy, or at the very least, he can elaborate on this.