New York 180 (Endgame)

[Aeronaut]

Tell the dead thread we say hi

[T S O]

His stance on ABR switched immediately upon the claim, and if lying made him feel like ABR was more likely to be town, I don't know why he would reverse his stance on him at that point. It really feels to me like he was trying to push through a lynch on a PR that he legitimately believed. It was safe to defend ABR when he seemed like VT. The moment that he claimed a PR he was too dangerous to be left alive.

This is the most ridiculous thing ever.

[Cheetory6]

ABR claimed Tracker day one.

I don't get what your point here is supposed to be. A lot of things happened between the time of that claim and D3. Including ABR retracting his tracker claim?

This is the most ridiculous thing ever.

Why do you keep ignoring the main question I'm asking you? I have yet to hear a single reason as to why your read on ABR 180ed.

[T S O]

My point is that if I was so scared of ABR-tracker then I would have gone for him when he claimed d1 as scum, no?

[T S O]

Can you also explain why I would want ABR dead when, if I was scum, I had him wrapped around my little finger to the point I was almost certain not to be tracked?

[Cheetory6]

My point is that if I was so scared of ABR-tracker then I would have gone for him when he claimed d1 as scum, no?

There was also a copclaim? There were also more people in the game at that point?

Can you also explain why I would want ABR dead when, if I was scum, I had him wrapped around my little finger to the point I was almost certain not to be tracked?

Maybe to protect other scummates? You might have a point here, but that still doesn't explain why your read on him just randomly switched for no reason.

[T S O]

I am procrastinating on answering this since I feel at a basic level I don't really need to. I guess I might. I probably should.

[Cheetory6]

-.-

[T S O]

Can you also explain why I would want ABR dead when, if I was scum, I had him wrapped around my little finger to the point I was almost certain not to be tracked?

Maybe to protect other scummates? You might have a point here, but that still doesn't explain why your read on him just randomly switched for no reason.

Then I would have influenced him to do that, given that I was one of his top 2 townreads.

[T S O]

I do have to agree you are approaching this in a pretty town way - if you were scum I would expect you to attempt to shout me down instead of being rational.

[Cheetory6]

Okay, look, I'm not going to be able to realistically argue on a level this semantic. The core issue here is that you're being really sketchy with answering something that should be really easy to answer. If I'm misunderstanding something it shouldn't take 10-20 posts for you to clarify said misunderstanding.

[T S O]

It's not really semantics, though.

Your argument is that I was scared of ABR-tracker and so voted him.
My response, as above, is that this doesn't make sense given the gamestate.

The obvious conclusion here is that I was not actually scared of ABR-tracker.

Are you going to change your argument in response to this? Because continuing on your current train of logic doesn't seem to make sense anymore.

[T S O]

I'm going to do my own meta on scum-goodmorning seeing as the reports are conflicting.

[Cheetory6]

My last few posts have been ideas as to why you were doing what you were doing. I'm not realistically going to be able to know exactly what your motivations or the direct intentions behind each of your actions were because I don't know the full picture yet.
I'm brainstorming because your read on ABR changed in a manner that makes 0 sense to me if you're town, so I'm trying to fill in the blanks as to why you did what you did. Before you attack the details of what I'm saying, you should focus on the reason why I believe you're scum in the first place. Because otherwise it looks like you're just trying to dismantle my argument instead of actually trying to convince me that you're not scum.

[Cheetory6]

Also the subdued way you're trying to argue with me seems out of character q.q

[T S O]

I have not really looked back to that time yet, but I will.

[T S O]

Actually, the point about the vig is completely relevant - our vig had "presumably" shot scum on night 1, which shows they are a competent player and shouldn't have to be limited to doing the policy work of the town.

The MathBlade kill was also optimal last night, because ABR did not retract his claim - thus, the vig has yet to really slip up, reinforcing my point.

[T S O]

if MathBlade is Vengeful then why did ABR track her to Ellie? How has Math concluded that ABR has gone from 100% scum to town?

Oh.
Ohhhhhhh.
I think I understand.

VOTE: MathBlade

ABR might still be scum, but I believe that he's a tracker.

Because a Scum tracker is exactly the kind of PR you want to leave alive!

Because a serial killer is the kind of role you want to leave alive?

wait

what

I'm reasonably confident that Math just doesn't give a fuck anymore because she knows that ABR is gonna flip some kind of tracker and then she's dead next.
If she hadn't slipped the whole bulletproof thing then maybe she could have played it off as her being vig.
I don't know why she assumed so quickly that ABR would be town just because he'd tracked her?
Unless I'm entirely off-base here in which case I have no fucking idea what's happening anymore.

Yeah, that's a surprisingly good analysis.

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

I can make no sense of these interactions unless Cheetory's right - and if Cheetory's right then I'd rather not give ABR the chance to get information for the scumteam tonight.

These are the key interactions surrounding what happened. I question MathBlade's weird motives. You respond with your explanation. I conclude it makes more sense than anything I'm thinking.

At this stage, MathBlade!SK is no longer a threat - we can lynch at our pleasure. Out of the two anti-town factions, one has been all but neutralised.

The danger now, for TSO at that stage, are the Mafia. I concluded ABR was indeed a Tracker from MathBlade's bad reactions.

I did not know if ABR was scum. However, I had began to consider the possibility that he was.

Lynching ABR over MathBlade had multiple advantages:

1) If ABR was scum telling the truth about MathBlade being SK, which MathBlade's reactions made possible, then ABR could potentially get his team another night of results. They could get lucky and track the Vig, for example. If nothing else, they'd confirm one player as not-Vig. As I've said, I was more worried about the Mafia than the SK at that point, so my main goal was denying them information.
2) ABR was divisive as fuck. He needed to go. If you read that portion of the game you can just see how angry and volatile the atmosphere is at his multiple lies. I actually got tired of pushing ABR and would have probably moved onto MathBlade if necessary just to get a flip. MathBlade's SK flip would not have remedied that atmosphere and he would still be polarising the game today. ABR's flip would and did.

[T S O]

And, yes, my faith in ABR had began to waver at that point. A mixture of annoyance, anger at lies and paranoia will do that to you.

[Cheetory6]

But why would lynching a tracker which could be of either alignment be better than lynching a bulletproof SK? There was no guarantee that a vigilante would be able to kill MathBlade [who had claimed bulletproof] while there was a near 100% guarantee that a vigilante would be able to kill town/scum tracker ABR.

[Cheetory6]

A mixture of annoyance, anger at lies and paranoia will do that to you.

At one point you said him lying made him more likely to be town. What made you change your mind?

[T S O]

Because we could have leashed MathBlade, whereas we couldn't leash ABR.

[T S O]

A mixture of annoyance, anger at lies and paranoia will do that to you.

At one point you said him lying made him more likely to be town. What made you change your mind?

A multitude of lies - and like I've said, paranoia etc.

[Cheetory6]

Because we could have leashed MathBlade, whereas we couldn't leash ABR.

I don't remember you saying anything along those lines at any point though :/
Why didn't you vocalize that?

[Cheetory6]

A multitude of lies - and like I've said, paranoia etc.

Why didn't you say any of this on D3? You made it sound more like a policy vote when I asked you about it.