Micro 447: Shameless Mafia -- Game Over!

[TierShift]

brb visiting stuff I haven't read yet.

[TierShift]

long post incoming

Wellshyt, I think I dislike ToonFighter. Here are the reasons:

– 53: the nameclaim is null in itself, but it's weird, because in 133 he said that he hadn't had time for the game (yet he

had had

time for that claim) and he started reading at that time (136... It's okay if someone doesn't read anything but how could he miss a case which had started on Page1?

– 136: First part: TierShift and I could be scums together. (Lololol...) Next part, this:

"Even if you are correct in your theory, even if you had a 100% guilty read on those players, you'd need much stronger arguments to convince me to vote with you, to block and/or investigate you at night, and to basically follow you everywhere. [...] Anen, do you still believe town should follow everything you suggested here? Has your opinion changed in any point?"

Then finally, ends the post with a vote for me.
It's possible that he's scum with TierShift and wants to make a compromise read on me. But okay, let's forget about TierShift now.
He says that I'd need stronger arguments – but how those things after that (vote with me, block me, investigate me) add up at all? Also, he asks questions, but before getting any answers from me, votes. Whuttafuk?

– 145:

"I voted anen because I didn't like his attitude, acting like he knew the entire game by page 3" – since when has been an attitude-tell an alignment tell? By the way, the last sub-sentence is a kind of discrediting. (I must be wrong because it's only Page3...)

– 146: too defensive. Just check why ThisCristmas voted for him. ^_^

– 160: voting for Dodgy.

" Looking at it again, I think he is the most likely scum in the interaction, joining the TS bandwagon for bad reasons and overall being a dead weight in the game so far."

– at that point my wagon was not moving and Dodgy was the leading wagon.

– 198:

"There are usually 3-4 times more town than scum. And D1, with little information, favors scum a lot more than town. So, probability really"

– everyone knows that. But, posting this might be a "safe ground" for performing a mislynch later.

– 284: unvotes Dodgy because he replaced out. Or because that wagon was not moving...?

– 301: votes for Shos. Yet again, he ends up on the leading wagon!

– 310:

"That is why I was only considering the top wagons."

– oookaaaay but he was doing that all the time, regardless of the time we've left!

– 336: that was simply pigeon poop.


UNVOTE:
VOTE: Toon Fighter

Also,
(1) it's possible that he's scum with TierShift (first TS is "scum with me", next, when those wagons are not moving it's a "town-vs-town") and
(2) I really don't like those names on the Shos-wagon, as I said before.

I don't like this post. Anen feels the need to overly justify himself.

@ARCANGEL

Jimmy Steve Lishman

How the fuck am i still the leading wagon.

Im a gunsmith. Please can we proceed with lynching TF?
AA9 and those voting TS are automatically scumreads of mine if I disregard the game, btw, juat becauae they posted this close to DL and started anoyher vanity wagom. Scum benefit from NL.

Id like to be watched tpnight.

Gunsmith? Did you learn from Unbalanced mafia lol?
I was initially somewhat conflicted on this claim, since it, well, looks like you just copied it from unbalanced mafia. I'm somewhat happier with you a few pages further, as you'll see below.

no lynching is giving up a mislynch
lynching town is giving up a mislynch, but info is given with a flip

Estival, you were ALREADY voting TS(vanity wagon again btw,) so why did you feel the need to revote? Whyare you there anyway?

preach

I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYONE USE THE DAY ONE MISLYNCH FOR INFO> POINT ME TO ONE GAME WHERE THAT INFO AS YOU CLAIM BROKE THE GAME> I AM SICK AND TIRED OF USELESS AND POINTLESS ARGUMENTS LIKE "Info"

GUESS WHAT ELSE GIVES US INFO? THE TOWN DEATH TONIGHT. NO NEED TO HELP SCUM.

Even though you are dead, this is common practice. I sometimes choose on who's townflip provides the most info.

I've just arrived home and haven't read the latest pages thoroughly but as far as I can see the Tiershift wagon is back, therefore

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TierShift

By the way, I'm Lip.

Anen continues behaviour of not doing shit and only tunnelling.

This town is a trainwreck

I call yhis game perfect scum win


Omfg

I can give you a dozen games where d1 lynch lead to maaaassive information. MASSIVE.
I cany believe Lip jusy claimed. Holy fuck

THERE IS AN EXAMPLE TOWN ROLE PM RIGHT THERE ONPAGEONE


SCUM KNOW THE TOWN WINCON

THAT IS WHY HE FAKECLAIMED CARL ASAP

why onearth otherwise would he do that
Omfg

OMFFFFFG

Im going to sleep

Wipl respond in dead thread

I feel genuine frustration in this post.

VOTE: Tiershift

I understand, but the lack of proactiveness and just choosing the big wagon makes me sick.

Im still awake somewhy

Estival, the most recent is inuyasha, but off thr top of my head the tpcky hprror show fits too

TF wluld fakeclaim because he is given a safeclaim so he uses it. It is both a "lool how town i am" and adds a perk of fooling othera to claim prematurely as well, which again, helps only scum.

What benefit have you got from knowing now who Lip is? Ateve? Carl? Mickey?

No brnefit at all
Lip is pronably some kind of joat; wanna bet he dies/os blpcked?

So scum got usefil info.
Town got uselessinfo, at best.

Also Carl doesnt even fit as a VT. Debs does. Carl is a criminal, he breaks his fathers leg, bullies everyone around, smokes, drinks, gets kicked outta school, and all this before age of 10. VT? Nah.

Scum probably got a "these roles are not in the game: carl, ____, ____," and not a full fakeclaim.

I like this post as this is geared towards expressing his anger and also his scumread towards TF rather than continuously egging people on to vote for him. This is a townmarker for shos.
(Which also maybe means you should work on your convincing as town, dear <3)

tier? maybe scum
talk to me tier : )
ill post more puppies
if you come in here and have fun with me

Hi, I'm here. You're continuing the absolute uselessness of your predecessor. Wanna change that?

[TierShift]

I'm mad because I was sure shos was imitating his towngame. ISO going nooooowwww

[Aneninen]

Everyone,

I think the whole Character claiming is pigeon poop. We're not getting anywhere by this.
I'm explaining it now.

(1) scums may have a fake-claim. (Eg. if I were scum, it would be possible that my role PM would say something like "you know that Lip is not around at all".)
(2) being a Gallagher means nothing. There could be a scum-flavour for everyone. (Eg in my case, something like "recently you've realized that it's your family that holds you back and you're clever enough to get rid of them one by one.)
(3) there's NO direct correlation between PRs and names. (Eg. I could be a JOAT, "being able to find evidences (Cop), use xxxx-skills to my advantage (Tracker, Watcher), anything... or I could be a VT because "you've just arrived home and you know very little about the recent events, soooo...")

See?
I've just explained that because of having a role I could be any alignment, I could have any PRs.

Stop this and start scumhunting.

________

Post-edit
I'll respond everything else too but I'm off becuase I'm Lip. No, because I have to work IRL. ^_^

[Aneninen]

*because of having a name
(Shyt.)

[Alchemist21]

STOP FUCKONG CLAIMING YOUR CHARACTER OH FOR FUCJS SAKEEEE

why would you join a Shameless mafia if you dont know shameless

TGERE ARE NOT ENOUGH GALLAGARS TO FILL A TOWN

AND THERE ARE PLENTY NON-GALLAGHARS WHO ARE PRO-GALLAGHARS


YOU ARE ONLU HELPING SCUM ISOLATE PRS

Because we were told flavor knowledge wasn't required to play?

Having no knowledge of the flavor, I am a little conflicted on whether we should claim or not. Yeah, PR's could be matched with certain characters for reasons that make sense, but if you don't know what roles are in the game, is it really possible to assume a given character has a PR or not?

[shos]

The line of reasoning that some of the gallaghers are scum fakeclaims because they are all obviously town is as dumb as the original line of reasoning that all the gallaghers are town.

Anyway, the fact that you say that there is information to be had from flavourclaiming as some gallaghers HAVE to be scum (I don't agree) contradicts your statement that flavourclaiming is useless and only helps scum. Care to explain?

The difference is as following.

1. why this doesn't give info to town:
because there are six gallaghars. there are 9 people in the game, which means most likely 2 scum, meaning 7 town, which are not the gallaghars. while some gallaghars may be in play, I think it is likely that at least one is a scum fakeclaim *cough*AA9/TF*cough*. This does not help town because we're not just going to lyncht hem on the assumption that gallaghar is scum, and because lol that is too big of a pool to work with PoE.
Also, we have absolutely no idea what's going on regarding which flavor is scum. for all we know, Frank gallaghar can be scum - the wincon is gallaghar KIDS - this means that Fyona, Frank, and Sammy are out. Frank can be scum or town; Karen, Steve - they can all be both scum and town. WE HAVE NO INFORMATION HERE.

2. why this hurts town by giving info to scum:
we already know by now that roles are connected to the flavor(E.G. me, gunmaster Mickey is a gunsmith) and as such, any scum with even the slightest understanding of the show will know that nightkilling Liam is a stupid decision when you can kill Fyona.

[shos]

@TS 526: you do realize I was town in both unbalanced mafia games, right? lol. *keeps reading*

[shos]

Alright! calling it:

{TF,AA9,Alchemist21}.

Mod, post it in dead thread,March 11, I win.

[TierShift]

So, done ISO.

The main thing that strikes me is the insistence on not flavourclaiming. It's a bit contradictory to what he says himself (some gallaghers gotta be scum) but it doesn't fit with my view of scumshos. Another thing that is evident is his lack of manipulation. Manipulation isn't a scumtell, but I do consider it to be one for shos; his scumgame is much more manipulative than his towngame. He just expresses anger a lot of the time rather than convincing people to vote where he votes.
And his stuff on me is really genuine.
I'm actually pretty confident in this townread. huh.

I need to take a look at how the wagon on you dissipated.

Btw add to #1 the chance that I actually drop something inthread that I learned in the current game's scum PT, lol. You can ask shos to assess this chance, he's played with scum-me.

I find this good. Scum do not usually refer to their scummeta while they're not playing like it; they need

others

to find that out and speak it out loud for them. I refer to my meta only as town, too.

wow, shos, you've addressed your meta in this game! You must be town!

Anen is somewhat of a grey area. Me elaborating might lead to him changing his behaviour, so I'm not gonna. Atm.

interesting, I had a townread on anen for a reason I did not disclose either. wonder if it's the same.

As we're quite a time in now, I will elaborate on this. I hope you can do the same.
I find early game tunnelling to be somewhat of a towntell. Scum like to play it safe in the early pages. However, when this behaviour lasts for the entire game, especially when based on a single post rather than play, it sends up all kinds of big red flags.
Everyone, even a tunneller, can evaluate other stuff. Anen obviously doesn't want to. I don't regard him very highly as a player, but based on previous games, I'd expect him to be able to evaluate a bit more objectively.

That's why I scumread him. Why do you disagree? What is the stuff you don't want to disclose?

Blocked, and surprise surprise.

What a stupid day 1 that was

booo blocked blocked card
be glad I think you're town because I would totally demolish your PR claim otherwise

It only makes sense that i get blocked instead of killed
This makes use of both kill and block whereas killing me may waste the block on a VT.

Scum 101.

The pm I sent the mod was mad, I was bursting too

TF. Its gonna be a long tunnel

Prepare

VOTE: AA9.

I'll give you a list of some vital characters.

Deb
Carl
Ian
Lip
Fyona
Frank
Sammy
Liam
Vivian
Kevin
Mickey
Mandy
Karen
Karen's mom
their sex adddict boyfriend
Steve/Jimmy
Gus


who is scum?

What happened between these two posts? I don't really get your scumread on AA9. Why are the two players focused on collecting flavourclaims scum?

[TierShift]

hey there's activity in this thread
#happy

[TierShift]

The line of reasoning that some of the gallaghers are scum fakeclaims because they are all obviously town is as dumb as the original line of reasoning that all the gallaghers are town.

Anyway, the fact that you say that there is information to be had from flavourclaiming as some gallaghers HAVE to be scum (I don't agree) contradicts your statement that flavourclaiming is useless and only helps scum. Care to explain?

The difference is as following.

1. why this doesn't give info to town:
because there are six gallaghars. there are 9 people in the game, which means most likely 2 scum, meaning 7 town, which are not the gallaghars. while some gallaghars may be in play, I think it is likely that at least one is a scum fakeclaim *cough*AA9/TF*cough*. This does not help town because we're not just going to lyncht hem on the assumption that gallaghar is scum, and because lol that is too big of a pool to work with PoE.
Also, we have absolutely no idea what's going on regarding which flavor is scum. for all we know, Frank gallaghar can be scum - the wincon is gallaghar KIDS - this means that Fyona, Frank, and Sammy are out. Frank can be scum or town; Karen, Steve - they can all be both scum and town. WE HAVE NO INFORMATION HERE.

2. why this hurts town by giving info to scum:
we already know by now that roles are connected to the flavor(E.G. me, gunmaster Mickey is a gunsmith) and as such, any scum with even the slightest understanding of the show will know that nightkilling Liam is a stupid decision when you can kill Fyona.

I did not realise that mickey was a gunsmith. I thought flavour would not be related to roles. This is bad. I think.
I think a well-designed setup, especially one that was advertised as "flavour knowledge not required to play" shouldn't have important characters as PR's. I thought that was the case. Not so sure now.

@TS 526: you do realize I was town in both unbalanced mafia games, right? lol. *keeps reading*

yeah, why does that matter?

[Alchemist21]

Alright! calling it:

{TF,AA9,Alchemist21}.

Mod, post it in dead thread,March 11, I win.

I still want someone to answer my question. Can we assume a given character has a PR just because of the character? And if not, then why is this harmful to Town?

[shos]

ooh I'm here don't disappear

[shos]

re:meta
I know it's kinda wierd to refer to my meta and say that my meta is to refer to my meta only when I'm town, (lol that sentence is funny) but the fact is that when I'm scum, I play to my scum meta to the fullest, and as such, I actively avoid meta discussion, and whenever such starts I divert it to someone else or to some other subject. Extraspecially because I like palying with peeps I played with before, and hence, they know my scummeta (like you this game).

re: anen
I'm not sure I understand your question to me; but meanwhile, no, I cannot explain my early townread on Anen. Lately it's been going down though, I'll say that, although the Lip claim gives me gut of town, because as a mod I would *totally* include him in town as the most awesomest person in the show.

re: AA9 and the tunnel
The thing that happened is these two posted. While TF posted with reason, AA9 proved to me that he skims the game and ignores my posts almost altogether if not entirely.

mom's bugging me I'll be back in a few minutes stay ONLINE

[This Christmas]

Jimmy Steve Lishman

also im so relieved estival isnt here to tunnel me

[This Christmas]

well, not tunnel but be pushy and loud

[shos]

The line of reasoning that some of the gallaghers are scum fakeclaims because they are all obviously town is as dumb as the original line of reasoning that all the gallaghers are town.

Anyway, the fact that you say that there is information to be had from flavourclaiming as some gallaghers HAVE to be scum (I don't agree) contradicts your statement that flavourclaiming is useless and only helps scum. Care to explain?

The difference is as following.

1. why this doesn't give info to town:
because there are six gallaghars. there are 9 people in the game, which means most likely 2 scum, meaning 7 town, which are not the gallaghars. while some gallaghars may be in play, I think it is likely that at least one is a scum fakeclaim *cough*AA9/TF*cough*. This does not help town because we're not just going to lyncht hem on the assumption that gallaghar is scum, and because lol that is too big of a pool to work with PoE.
Also, we have absolutely no idea what's going on regarding which flavor is scum. for all we know, Frank gallaghar can be scum - the wincon is gallaghar KIDS - this means that Fyona, Frank, and Sammy are out. Frank can be scum or town; Karen, Steve - they can all be both scum and town. WE HAVE NO INFORMATION HERE.

2. why this hurts town by giving info to scum:
we already know by now that roles are connected to the flavor(E.G. me, gunmaster Mickey is a gunsmith) and as such, any scum with even the slightest understanding of the show will know that nightkilling Liam is a stupid decision when you can kill Fyona.

I did not realise that mickey was a gunsmith. I thought flavour would not be related to roles. This is bad. I think.
I think a well-designed setup, especially one that was advertised as "flavour knowledge not required to play" shouldn't have important characters as PR's. I thought that was the case. Not so sure now.

@TS 526: you do realize I was town in both unbalanced mafia games, right? lol. *keeps reading*

yeah, why does that matter?

Dunno, it felt like you were explaining why you are scumreading me, despite townreading me, so you said I acted like something that was done when I was town(twice) and therefore scum....ors omething..

[shos]

Alright! calling it:

{TF,AA9,Alchemist21}.

Mod, post it in dead thread,March 11, I win.

I still want someone to answer my question. Can we assume a given character has a PR just because of the character? And if not, then why is this harmful to Town?

I dunno. I am mickey and am a gunsmith, so I assumed yes.
but you know what, even if not, what GOOD can come out of nameclaiming?
there are a thousand characters, no bad guys, so everyone can be any alignment, even SK, survivor, everything. (lol this fits with everyone-is-survivor lol). So what benefit do you gain from mass flavorclaim? none. if so, why do it? hey, how bout we all say what name we would give to a flying racoon if we had a flying racoon?!?

...no.

Jimmy Steve Lishman

also im so relieved estival isnt here to tunnel me

well, not tunnel but be pushy and loud

how bout some actual content from you?
analysis? reads? anything?

[TierShift]

re: anen
I'm not sure I understand your question to me; but meanwhile, no, I cannot explain my early townread on Anen. Lately it's been going down though, I'll say that, although the Lip claim gives me gut of town, because as a mod I would *totally* include him in town as the most awesomest person in the show.

Why can you not explain? You have already fullclaimed. Is it due to ~ongoing~?

re: AA9 and the tunnel
The thing that happened is these two posted. While TF posted with reason, AA9 proved to me that he skims the game and ignores my posts almost altogether if not entirely.

I don't get this.

Skimming your wagon tells me that this christmas's vote switch to TF is weird, as if he's completely on the other side of the argument all of a sudden. Talk to me about this, christmas.

[TierShift]

Dunno, it felt like you were explaining why you are scumreading me, despite townreading me, so you said I acted like something that was done when I was town(twice) and therefore scum....ors omething..

uh-huh

[ArcAngel9]

Shos, just because you think character claims wont work doesn't meant no value. lets imagine scum have fake claims..Still it wouldn't hurt knowing the claims.. It wont isolate scum the PR's. Ian is a pretty important character but he was still VT. It would stupid for scum to think any power role is tied up with a character.

[ArcAngel9]

And Aneninen have been continuously avoiding sharing his name.. This one needs to die today
VOTE: Aneninen

[droog]

Hi, I'm here. You're continuing the absolute uselessness of your predecessor. Wanna change that?

[droog]

tier
do you suspect anen becaues anen is tunneling
or becaue anen is tunneling

you

because right now you accuse anen
in the same post
of reaching to vote somebody whos not you
but tunneling in his vote on you