Touhou UPick 3 - [Game Over]

[Katsuki]

IIRC we resolved that a player can use a spell card and an ability in the same night phase. This was the basis of the Katsuki neighbourise one of Mala/Ank plan, if we left Katsuki around.

So for this to be true, we are assuming Katsuki decided not to neighbourise a player, despite saying earlier in the thread that he loves neighbourhoods.

In any case, the fact that Katsuki/Ooba didn't at least discuss "Who should we invite next/sorry got other plans" is a no brainer.

Ok I'm not sure which part of my claim made you think I'm a full neighborizer but sure?

HURR DURR PERHAPS I DON'T HAVE ADDITIONAL NEIGHBORIZING SHOTS

[Katsuki]

and this is 9 pages to catch up on i hate you guys

[Katsuki]

Also, it's possible that Cupcake (and some others) are not aware that you can use a spellcard and a regular ability (i.e. an ability that isn't a spell card) in the same phase. The ability Cupcake used on ooba N1 was a regular ability (since it was tracked), and regular abilities in this game don't have limited shots (though they may have other conditions surrounding them, they are most certainly not 1-shot). If we do happen to let Cupcake live today, we're going to force him to neighbourise one of {Mala, Ankamius} (two people scum can't really afford to NK given the limited suspect pool) to prove his ability. This shouldn't interfere with any spellcards he wants to use since he can use them on top of the neighourise ability. Also whoever gets neighbourised by him should have access to whatever conversations he's so far had with ooba.

Oh I get why you wanted the claim now.

All the abilities I've claimed are regular. The only spellcard I have is useless and is a neighbourhood investigative ability (learn names of all neighborhoods out there).

[Katsuki]

ok I don't feel liek addressing every post but I'll probably still write up a wall sometime even if I hate them.

Muffin quick question though, do you think I'm literally retarded as scum? Because what it feels like to me is that you're wishing too hard for me to be scum and that's tainting your view. I guess I'm self-reflecting here too since it's showing up in this game, but probably the weakest aspect to my towngame is my lack of transparency, whereas I am incredibly transparent as scum (maybe that's why I'm townread more as scum than town).

Another problem seems that others are just not familiar with my style. I'll probably link all my scumgames from the past 2 years (or at least, all my wins, so that's only omitting the trainwreck that was Cave Story anyways).

[Kagami]

That's a stupid argument and you know it, katsuki.

If your scum-play were as distinctly different from your town play as you're suggesting, then your scumplay would indeed be terrible.

[Kagami]

Why do you think your predecessor implied he was a vig?

[Katsuki]

Why do you think your predecessor implied he was a vig?

The same reason why I go around softclaiming a billion different roles? I don't know I didn't read his ISO.

[Katsuki]

That's a stupid argument and you know it, katsuki.

If your scum-play were as distinctly different from your town play as you're suggesting, then your scumplay would indeed be terrible.

It is incredibly distinct though. That's why I'm always lynchbait when I'm town. :/

Actually, if you were to go back and read every scum game of mine since I started playing on this site, the only times I've been lynched as scum outside LYLO are direct results of investigations.

[Kagami]

Why do you think your predecessor implied he was a vig?

The same reason why I go around softclaiming a billion different roles? I don't know I didn't read his ISO.

No, it's not the same.

You softclaiming a billion roles is just you spouting rubbish and is obviously so. Relentless said, without intent to be funny, that he could kill people.

This makes some sense as town, though is still bad play, if he had a useless role and was hoping to draw a block or NK. You don't have a useless role, though. You have a motivate and something that is spiffy enough that you want to stay alive another night.

Also, why did you neighborize ooba when you were already highly confident he was town prior to night 1?

[Kagami]

My opinion isn't really changing here.

I think ooba is somewhat more likely to be scum than katsuki, but I'd be equally happy to see either lynched.

I think you should just make the call muffin. I don't want to wait until the weekend; I know I'm going to be less active then, and other people will be too, leading to a deadline lynch in spite of having confirmed scum. Let's just do this.


Of the uncertains-but-probably-town, I really don't think kilg is viably scum independent of role, but both multivoters being scum also seems like poor design. A successful double lynch executed by shadoweh will make me highly confident about the town-ness of that slot, especially given the implications of the card come mylo.

Speaking of which, you seem to be implying that you would use the card prior to us getting the hammer, shadoweh. That's bad, we're not doing that. Your card will double-hammer.

[Ankamius]

FTR, Malakittens did actually explain the Sakura read in the PT. It was one of the things I specifically asked her on N1.

It's one of the reasons I'm townreading the slot; I could have sworn I specifically posted this line somewhere in the thread, but I felt Mala was being biased in a more town than scum way with it.

[SB]

You softclaiming a billion roles is just you spouting rubbish and is obviously so. Relentless said,

without intent to be funny

, that he could kill people.

As someone who actually knows Relentless, the I'm 99% sure that the bolded is wrong.

Hi, I've been busy and stuff. Actually reading the rest of the thread now.

[Kilgamayan]

Quick bit of proper typing time while on lunch break. I figured I'd share this now while I have the opportunity, since almost all browsing for the next 48 hours is going to be lurkreading via phone.

My regular Night 2 action targeted Gaiden and failed. I later had it clarified that, in a vacuum, Gaiden's death would not have had an effect on my role (see questions in 1634), so I'm kinda wondering where the failure came from.

My non-visiting spellcard shot of identical function to my ability (see 1899) was used on Ankamius, and that succeeded, so if roleblockage is somehow responsible for the Gaiden failure then it doesn't affect spellcards. Regardless, without actually revealing anything (obviously), I can say that I totally understand where he's coming from at the bottom of 1617, which kinda leans me a bit away from scum Ankamius. At the very least, it certainly doesn't make me any more inclined toward him being scum. (I admit it's not unreasonable to fake as scum, but he's approaching his situation as a townie would.)

I guess the point of this, beyond being an info dump, is that Ankamius is still really only in my lynch pool by PoE and I would actually probably vote Katsuki ahead of him now that I think about it, which I know is contrary to what I said in 1877 but whatever.

[Ankamius]

I believe #1912. It would be a very unreasonable coincidence for him to be lying about this.

[Katsuki]

Also, why did you neighborize ooba when you were already highly confident he was town prior to night 1?

That's the whole point?...There's no point to having a QT with someone who's alignment you question, that's what sucks about in-game threads.

[Kagami]

Typically one neighborizes with intent to get a better read on the player.

What was the intent of neighborizing ooba, then? It sounds like you discussed absolutely nothing relevant to the game, and you didn't claim your abilities to your intended mason partner.

[Kagami]

Why did ooba have to "prod" you for reads?

Why didn't you lay out your thoughts as openly as possible to your high-confidence town neighbor?

[Katsuki]

Typically one neighborizes with intent to get a better read on the player.

What was the intent of neighborizing ooba, then? It sounds like you discussed absolutely nothing relevant to the game, and you didn't claim your abilities to your intended mason partner.

I have no idea what players you've been playing with but if you're neighborizing someone with "the intent to get a better read on the player" then you're playing the role wrong.

Why did ooba have to "prod" you for reads?

Why didn't you lay out your thoughts as openly as possible to your high-confidence town neighbor?

He didn't prod me so much as he simply asked me lol

In all honesty I was absent for most of the night and ended up drunk posting in the QT. Though my bitching was real that I didn't really have any reads so far this game. Ooba knows about the players I want dead which were muffin and skypal so.

Other stuff shared with Ooba is stuff that I'm having FG delete for me post-game so, but it is essentially the reasoning as to why I enjoy QTs and not game threads (I've kindly asked ooba not to share either which he won't unless he's blatantly scum trying to get me lynched).

Oh and ooba claimed to me so pretty sure I'm town based simply on the fact that he's not dead yet (I'm not gonna elaborate on his role in case scum are dense).

[pieguyn]

FTR, Malakittens did actually explain the Sakura read in the PT. It was one of the things I specifically asked her on N1.

. . .

@MALA, get the fuck in here and explain why you didn't elaborate on the Sakura read in the game thread. what benefit did you think there was for _deliberately_ withholding that info, especially if you weren't convinced both of your neighbors were town?

also interested in what her thoughts actually were, although I don't particularly see myself changing my mind about it

[Shadoweh]

Of the uncertains-but-probably-town, I really don't think kilg is viably scum independent of role, but both multivoters being scum also seems like poor design. A successful double lynch executed by shadoweh will make me highly confident about the town-ness of that slot, especially given the implications of the card come mylo.

Speaking of which, you seem to be implying that you would use the card prior to us getting the hammer, shadoweh. That's bad, we're not doing that. Your card will double-hammer.

Today with Dan's vote locked I plan to use my 5-vote spellcard on one person so we have enough votes to put two wagons at L-1 and allow Kilga to hammer both of them, not the dual-vote that 3-votes two wagons. I know how wagons work, geez. They're two seperate spellcards. When I said we should double-lynch every day, I said that knowing I could make it happen at least once on my own and once with any other person.

Kilga, for serious, other then his role why do you think Rylai is town? I won't bother to study him closely if you're 100% opposed to it but I'd like a reason besides his power being supertown.

For anti-oobas: I think there's some weird confusion about what he claimed, Day 1 he made clear he was investigative-immune. If he roleblocks investigators do you think it makes sense to claim that rather then letting people fail on him without knowing why, from a scum perspective? I personally don't think it Makes Sense As Scum(tm)

Katsuki: Since you want to take the otheer front-runner out of the competition, who are the two people you would consider for quad-voting right now besides Dan? I don't really care about who got targetted with what, I'm not really sure what you want in this game besides to hate Sky Paladin for being bad-town and to tell people how dumb they are for thinking your scumgame looks like this(A sentiment I understand admittedly)

Also Mala should maybe uhhh post a content post? I really thought one would have happened by now and I'm very emotionally volatile and prone to listening to people like pie when they're being emotional too. It would make me feel guilty to lynch two people arguing for each other while the third real option is absent.

[Shadoweh]

(also she keeps saying she wants to lynch me and it hurts me fee fees)

[Kagami]

AD could easily have an unvoting or vote switching card that would cause non-AD to be lynched solo. Your votes should need to be the hammer.

[pieguyn]

Also Mala should maybe uhhh post a content post? I really thought one would have happened by now and I'm very emotionally volatile and prone to listening to people like pie when they're being emotional too. It would make me feel guilty to lynch two people arguing for each other while the third real option is absent.

do you think it'd be worth lynching Mala if we could get a 3rd lynch today?

I was serious about that, but I don't know if it's theoretically a sound idea.

[Shadoweh]

The same thing will be just as true tomorrow if we try to double-lynch this way again, just with less frozen self-voting. The difference being if Day-card that switches votes is on any scum other then Dan they'll be claiming scum when they don't have to.

Pie: I think that's up to you if you have another voting card. Who would you lynch on top of Mala in that case though?

[Kagami]

Your card puts three votes on two people, doesn't it?

There's no counterplay to that if you hammer two people at L-3. Bring two people to L-1 is just asking for trouble.