Mini 1651: One Flew Over The Monkey's Nest(Scum Wins!)

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote Count 1.12 - up to post #799.

Taly[4]: Elyse, mykonian, InsidiousLemons, toolenduso[L-3]
metalcyanide [4]: RadiantCowbells, Aquanim, Boonskiies, Taly[L-3]
RadiantCowbells[1]: Metalcyanide
Not Voting[3]: eektor, pisskop, TheDudeAbides

With 12 alive, it requires 7 votes to lynch.

Day ends on Monday, March 16th at 5:10 PM USA Mountain Time, or when a lynch occurs

[Taly]

Aqua

, I've understood that other than the two of us inadvertently agreeing and defending one another throughout parts of this game - we have had little direct interaction.

(Would you say this is accurate in our association so far?)

If I were lynched today, I wouldn't be bothered if it were out of the idea - that it'd be very informative and useful for the town. (Nevertheless, I don't want to be lynched.) You've seemed to have noticed this as well. I just want to see your vision on my lynch playing out here:

What would you do, or think, if I flipped

town?

Who would you suspect to be scum? What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum?

How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum? Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid? Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

**

This question can apply to anyone else in this game

, I'm just directing it at Aqua for arbitrary reasons and - getting insight on the idea of my lynch today. Since he has brought this up the most, and probably the most helpful in asking this type of question.

**

[toolenduso]

tool, what do you of eektors play last week?

Last week, specifically? Like, March 1-7?

[mykonian]

basically from when he came back from V/LA, which is around piss's kill.

[toolenduso]

More of the same compared with his play before he went on V/LA, really. It's pretty low-key and mostly noncommittal. I wouldn't be surprised if his slot was scum, but I think town has better options today.

[toolenduso]

What do you think of his play since he came back from V/LA, mykonian?

[MonkeyMan576]

TheDudeAbides will be prodded if he doesn't post in 12 hours.

[Aquanim]

Aqua

, I've understood that other than the two of us inadvertently agreeing and defending one another throughout parts of this game - we have had little direct interaction.

(Would you say this is accurate in our association so far?)

Mostly accurate, yes. I could have asked you some more questions and such but trying to interact with the people sitting on the sidelines seemed to me to be a far better proposition than getting involved in wallpost-flinging.

If I were lynched today, I wouldn't be bothered if it were out of the idea - that it'd be very informative and useful for the town. (Nevertheless, I don't want to be lynched.) You've seemed to have noticed this as well. I just want to see your vision on my lynch playing out here:

What would you do, or think, if I flipped

town?

Who would you suspect to be scum?

I'd still think Metalcyanide was scum, and I'd be very suspicious of Mykonian and InsidiousLemons in particular on your wagon at present (though I would scrutinise Elyse and tool as well). eektor and TheDudeAbides would continue to look sketchy for not taking a position on either wagon at this stage. My read on Boonskiies would likely shift one way or another based on the content he's been promising.

What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum?

I would probably still play my own reads, mostly. Even if I knew with certainty you're town, I know with certainty that I'm town too, and I understand my own reasons for making reads better than I understand yours... and the better I understand the reads I'm trying to push, the more convincing I am. Hiding behind other people's reads also makes me less accountable for my statements, which is something I consider almost against my win-condition as a town player.

How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

Well, you've fought back against your lynch. Even if I might wish you'd done it differently (which is to say, more concise and less wallposts) effort is all I have a right to ask for. I don't like that this day has focused just about only on you and the players attacking you (to the exclusion of encouraging other players, who I am scumreading more, to contribute) but I don't think that is something you set out to accomplish, even if it was (partially) a result of the way in which you defended yourself.

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum? Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid? Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

Obviously if you flip scum your reads were not the genuine thoughts of a townie trying to solve the game, and therefore they are of limited use to me. I might look at them to try to work out which were serious pushes to try to get somebody lynched and which were bussing done for form's sake.
In terms of your hypothetical scumbuddies... for starters, a scum flip on you would put Elyse off the table, for a couple of days at least. I don't see her bussing you in this way as very plausible. Mykonian as your partner is slightly more plausible but I'd need an exceptionally good case to do anything about it, even if I came to that conclusion. Given that your wagon has been a primary focus of the entire day I'd be especially looking hard at the people who haven't been committing to much (eektor, TheDudeAbides, Boonskiies... yes I know he's voting for Metal but that's about all he's done, he could switch easily enough) and people trying to push an alternate wagon (which is to say, RadiantCowbells). InsidiousLemons would be entirely plausible as scum bussing you for towncred, toolenduso less so.

...I'm not sure I actually eliminated anyone there. I'm not making many townreads this game, and I'll have to rethink a lot if you flip scum.

[toolenduso]

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum?

I would start by going back and looking at the way people interacted with you and your wagon during D1, then move from there.

Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid?

Yes, as a matter of principle.

Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

I don't think answering this question before your flip helps town, and could in fact help scum. Suffice to say, I have some ideas.

[mykonian]

What do you think of his play since he came back from V/LA, mykonian?

It's less in your face, but I agree, there's been entire series of posts that are posts but don't actually add anything. I don't like his reaction to the daykill. His early game was worse, first 3 pages he was a prime candidate for a taly partner (which we can talk about if taly actually flips scum). Later on that gets less obvious as well. Basically it looks like someone who settled in a little.

I do not like that slot.

[Boonskiies]

Yeah! Lynching people! Ungh!

[Taly]

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum?

I would start by going back and looking at the way people interacted with you and your wagon during D1, then move from there.

Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid?

Yes, as a matter of principle.

Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

I don't think answering this question before your flip helps town, and could in fact help scum. Suffice to say, I have some ideas.

Tool, I had a WHOLE other flurry of questions:

What would you do, or think, if I flipped town?

Who would you suspect to be scum? What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum? How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

Why are you answering only what you most likely think is the truth? That's ignoring the rest of my post and what info that it was meant to get, and the discussion that it was meant to create which is relevant entirely to the idea that I COULD BE LYNCHED fairly soon.

Plus, you've made your vote and read on me fairly obvious - this answering post is just filler.

[Taly]

Yeah! Lynching people! Ungh!

If I didn't want 2 people in this game out of here right now,

Spoiler: *hint hint*

One of them recently voted me, reference to the most recent vote chart, and the other person takes the record of my vote being on them for the longest in this game.

you'd take my vote, solely on your fluff posts, and the idea that I think town is giving scum a win invitation through the things that have happened in this game. AKA, the possibility of people like you, are scum, and waiting around to see what the town does - scratching their heads.

[toolenduso]

Wow, somehow I totally missed the questions you asked about if you flipped town. Lemme answer those now, even though...for some reason you don't want me to? Even though you said in that post that you wanted everyone to answer?

[Taly]

807

Well Aqua, I think everyone who isn't on my wagon at this point probably believes I'm town. (Because there has been enough times where I could have been hammered, and even now.)

I honestly believe at least half the scum team is still bussing on my wagon, and pushing for my lynch.

***1)

The initial case Elyse put on me was 25 pages ago.

2)

The wagon is still going... Even after Odds death, and now Metals wagon is up to par with mine.

3)

It was a fairly weak case, and considering the logistics that I am a noob, I am younger, and people kind of misrepped what I've said in a sense - this is an unhealthy D1 lynch choice. I won't say my age and experience as an excuse, but it definitely adds into how I've played.

4)

I've explained myself and my scum reads, and even town reads to an extent.

***5)

I really have not been that defensive and image-focused, at least... I'm not anymore. -_- I'm done with defending myself and arguing with some of these people.

6)

I've said all I can, and I'm still probably going to be lynched - and if I happen to survive to D2, I'm going to have a hell of a time trying to get back into a safe position with people.

7)

I don't know how people can say I've faked my role claim, and play... Obviously if people aren't too stupid to see it now, I'm a bit frustrated by all of this.

***8)

You know, the entire scum team can be on my wagon right now - They know I'm town. Nobody else has said much in my defense other than me trying to get people to see my side through 80% of this game. They're still on my wagon even after all other things have happened, this tells me they're taking advantage of the town. And if half the people on my wagon are town..... I'm not going to continue on this.

Oh well, this is me probably at my worst anyways.

[Taly]

Wow, somehow I totally missed the questions you asked about if you flipped town. Lemme answer those now, even though...for some reason you don't want me to? Even though you said in that post that you wanted everyone to answer?

What are you talking about? I NEVER said that I didn't want to hear what you said - It's just the answers you gave were ones people already knew about. I DID want you to answers, EVERYTHING. So I can see your visions on both sides.

Why are you answering only what you most likely think is the truth? That's ignoring the rest of my post and what info that it was meant to get, and the discussion that it was meant to create which is relevant entirely to the idea that I COULD BE LYNCHED fairly soon.

That was ALL I said to this:

In post 801, Taly wrote:
What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum?

I would start by going back and looking at the way people interacted with you and your wagon during D1, then move from there.

In post 801, Taly wrote:
Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid?

Yes, as a matter of principle.

In post 801, Taly wrote:
Who do you think would be the most likely suspect(my partner) if I flipped scum?

I don't think answering this question before your flip helps town, and could in fact help scum. Suffice to say, I have some ideas.

It had NOTHING about me not wanting to hear your answers, I just wanted to hear a FULL answer that is HELPFUL.

Wow.... I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, passive-aggressive, and misleading - or all of the above at once.

[toolenduso]

If you were to flip town:

Who would you suspect to be scum?

Again, I don't think it's to town's advantage to have a bunch of people answer this question.

What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum?

Claims? Not sure what you mean about that.

Cases? I mean, I would look over them again to see if anything was more persuasive upon second reading (or third in some cases), but other than that -- just because a person is town doesn't make them right.

How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

Well you've evoked responses from a lot of people, so if you are town then we'd have a lot to look at. But I'm not really sure why this point matters. Are you, like, asking for feedback on your play?

[toolenduso]

I NEVER said that I didn't want to hear what you said

Are you being serious right now? This post right here:

Plus, you've made your vote and read on me fairly obvious - this answering post is just filler.

...isn't you telling me that you don't care what I have to say? Because that's exactly how it looks.

I mean if it's a misunderstanding then OK, but I don't understand how you put those words together in a sentence and mean anything else.

Also:

I honestly believe at least half the scum team is still bussing on my wagon, and pushing for my lynch.

Please define the word "bussing."

[Taly]

Again, I don't think it's to town's advantage to have a bunch of people answer this question.

You don't need to repeat this.

Claims? Not sure what you mean about that.

Cases? I mean, I would look over them again to see if anything was more persuasive upon second reading (or third in some cases), but other than that -- just because a person is town doesn't make them right.

Scum reads and my reasoning, my claim on being a town PR, most of what I've said so far in this game to my defense.

Well you've evoked responses from a lot of people, so if you are town then we'd have a lot to look at. But I'm not really sure why this point matters. Are you, like, asking for feedback on your play?

It matters COMPLETELY, if it gives ANYTHING worthy to reference back at. It matters quite a bit to me because my flip on town would reveal I've been truthful entirely in this game. I'm not asking feedback in the since that I care of what you think of me - because honestly, I really could care less about that.

But the question matters because it shows just how much people have been paying attention to what I've been saying in this game...

[eektor]

Aqua

, I've understood that other than the two of us inadvertently agreeing and defending one another throughout parts of this game - we have had little direct interaction.

(Would you say this is accurate in our association so far?)

If I were lynched today, I wouldn't be bothered if it were out of the idea - that it'd be very informative and useful for the town. (Nevertheless, I don't want to be lynched.) You've seemed to have noticed this as well. I just want to see your vision on my lynch playing out here:

What would you do, or think, if I flipped

town?

Who would you suspect to be scum? What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum?

How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum? Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid? Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

**

This question can apply to anyone else in this game

, I'm just directing it at Aqua for arbitrary reasons and - getting insight on the idea of my lynch today. Since he has brought this up the most, and probably the most helpful in asking this type of question.

**

I will answer this if you can tell me what is your reasoning for asking the set of questions about if you flipped scum.

[Taly]

...isn't you telling me that you don't care what I have to say? Because that's exactly how it looks.

I mean if it's a misunderstanding then OK, but I don't understand how you put those words together in a sentence and mean anything else.

Stop trying to find hidden meanings, I've said what I meant, and I meant what I've said. And I didn't say that I didn't want to hear you.

I just said that your answers weren't helpful. It meant nothing else.

Please define the word "bussing."

Keep in mind, I can be using some very poor term usage right now.... But what I mean by bussing?

>At least 2 people are pushing for something to happen in a very strategic but off-handed way.

Basically, I'm saying - IN THE CONTEXT OF THE POST - that some of the people on my wagon, are coordinating with one another - or they're just trying to push for a lynch where there are several factors that have played along with it indicating that it is either false, or a weak case.

[toolenduso]

Scum reads and my reasoning,

Same answer as what I said about your cases.

my claim on being a town PR,

Uh...if you flip town, then we'll have your role confirmed. What thoughts could I possibly have about that that would sway my view on the game?

most of what I've said so far in this game to my defense.

Wouldn't really matter -- what would matter is the way other people still alive reacted to your defense.

If you're town, then once you're dead your words don't have a whole lot of bearing on the game.

[toolenduso]

I didn't say that I didn't want to hear you.

Then you ought to work on the way you word things.

Keep in mind, I can be using some very poor term usage right now.... But what I mean by bussing?

>At least 2 people are pushing for something to happen in a very strategic but off-handed way.

OK that makes a lot more sense. For future reference, "bussing" means one scum player either voting or pushing a case on their partner (ie, throwing them under the bus).

some of the people on my wagon, are coordinating with one another - or they're just trying to push for a lynch where there are several factors that have played along with it indicating that it is either false, or a weak case.

Care to name names?

[Taly]

Aqua

, I've understood that other than the two of us inadvertently agreeing and defending one another throughout parts of this game - we have had little direct interaction.

(Would you say this is accurate in our association so far?)

If I were lynched today, I wouldn't be bothered if it were out of the idea - that it'd be very informative and useful for the town. (Nevertheless, I don't want to be lynched.) You've seemed to have noticed this as well. I just want to see your vision on my lynch playing out here:

What would you do, or think, if I flipped

town?

Who would you suspect to be scum? What would you think about my prior claims and cases on who I thought was scum?

How much of a help have I been as town - if my flip revealed that I was being truthful?

What would you do, or think, if I flipped scum? Would you think my reads on everyone would be invalid? Who do you think would be the most likely suspect

(my partner)

if I flipped scum?

**

This question can apply to anyone else in this game

, I'm just directing it at Aqua for arbitrary reasons and - getting insight on the idea of my lynch today. Since he has brought this up the most, and probably the most helpful in asking this type of question.

**

I will answer this if you can tell me what is your reasoning for asking the set of questions about if you flipped scum.

It just seemed really dumb to only talk and ask about one reality of my flip if I wanted to get responses from people on their thoughts on BOTH realities of my flip.

Oh, I've said this before, and I'll repeat it again - I am a Town RB, and most of the people that aren't on my wagon, either know or think I am town, or don't suspect me as scum.

But yeah, if I were just going to ask about town - it'd take away from people replying more freely about it - It'd also be detrimental to any credibility from any discussions and thoughts the questions could have erupted from peoples responses.

Basically, it wouldn't have helped town. It'd just be a bunch of answers of me wanting validation on other peoples reads and then it'd give full range for misreps which seriously has put this this town in a rendering progress cycle in D1.

[Taly]

Uh...if you flip town, then we'll have your role confirmed. What thoughts could I possibly have about that that would sway my view on the game?

You do realize, if I flip town... That'd give other people a reason to scrutinize you, right?

Plus, it'd validate all my "genuine posts" to be actually genuine in this game. It'd shed a whole other light on what I've said as a whole, and that should at least make you re-evaluate your game.

...At least, I would think a townie would do that.

Wouldn't really matter -- what would matter is the way other people still alive reacted to your defense.

If you're town, then once you're dead your words don't have a whole lot of bearing on the game.

I feel like this comment contradicts itself.

The people who reacted to my defense - their alignment and motives - are to be questioned for my town flip.

My words DO gain validity if in a town flip, due to me stating that I am town, and why I think people on my wagon are likely scum - even despite my death in the game. It would say that I was telling the truth, and SHOULD give - at least a townie brain - incentive to go back and investigate other possible roles on who voted, and why.

So on the contrary, my words will have a lot of bearing on the game post-my death.

Then you ought to work on the way you word things.

Stop trying to find hidden meanings, I've said what I meant, and I meant what I've said.

Sorry, you might want to think about the way you perceive and represent things.

Care to name names?

I've made my case and thoughts on mykonian pretty obvious in this game. Elyse is meh, honestly.

And FYI - You're on the fence for me - in terms of me wondering you're scum or not. Ask if you didn't get the memo.