New York 182 - Game Over

[Sakura Hana]

Choo choo

Vote: Varsoon

Hi Thor
Hi Marquis
Hi Varsoon
Long time no see

[Sakura Hana]

Current townreads: Everyone voting Varsoon
Current scumreads: Anyone that has posted after Thor has posted and didn't vote Varsoon.

[Sakura Hana]

hey sakura

i think it's awesome that you didn't say hi to me

Didn't realize you replaced someone, Hi!

[Sakura Hana]

Current townreads: Everyone voting Varsoon
Current scumreads: Anyone that has posted after Thor has posted and didn't vote Varsoon.

Jackie S.
New York, NY
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5.0 star rating 8/28/2013
This place is closed! Seriously the saddest thing to happen to sushi! They could no longer afford their rent.

Always friendly, always affordable. I will miss you Sakura Hana & your banana tempura!

Don't worry we can lynch your innards after we flip scum Varsoon.

[Sakura Hana]

do you love me now, sakura?

[Sakura Hana]

do you love me now, sakura?

6 is a good number, why would you ruin it
why are you doing this
why did you let it habben
ids habbending
y dozen u stob dis

You should bus your partner while you can still look good doing so, if you do i promise i'll wait 2 days to lynch you instead.

[Sakura Hana]

well now we all know the real reason dgb is "retired"

No hi back? You hurt me!

[Sakura Hana]

Or...I guess you could avoid that wagon and keep doing that.

Why do you townread Varsoon? Or is it that you scumread Elusive, or scumread some people voting fro Varsoon (though then I would presume you'd vote them...?)

Your vote doesn't seem to make much sense.
Clarify?

@Sakura - good posting. Let's just random speed lynch Varsooon and see what happens.

okay now I think I know what's going on
with 21 players, it'll take quite a while to whittle down enough players to make the game solvable
a two week long day with this many players, it's likely that there won't be much important information so you're trying to make some
I don't townread anyone right now; to do so would be foolish
VOTE: varsoon

What

why would I waste my time reading another game that I didn't play in

What you're seeing is Thor being Thor.

man why are all the dogs in this game so bad.

Not enough bait to bite.

[Sakura Hana]

what are the implications of varsoon flipping green
what are the implications of varsoon flipping red
what are the implications of varsoon flipping blue
what are the implications of varsoon flipping grilled cheese

You die in all of them... except grilled cheese, then you solve world's hunger, and then we grill you instead.

[Sakura Hana]

can i get a doggy counterwagon going?

Sure!, There's no scum wagon without a counterwagon on town you know! I knew something was missing.

[Sakura Hana]

sakura i love you but i'm going to ignore you until i can commit to a read on you

things work better that way

And what are you doing to get said read?

[Sakura Hana]

Well that doesn't work for me since i get reads out of interaction...
Unless you have some sort of deep reason to not want to interact with me.

[Sakura Hana]

What is the point of talking about he replacing out and whether people were rude to him or not, it doesn't help the gamestate.
I'm rather interested in Silverwolf's reply to Thor's questions.

[Sakura Hana]

everyone's pissed at me

I'm not <3

[Sakura Hana]

Ok THAT makes sense, i remember harassing you a bit on PvZ due to thinking you were scum, sorry about that.
I'll give you some space for now then, but i'll eventually have to interact with you to form a read on you, and the sooner the better otherwise imma start thinking that you just want the right momment to try to strike me emotionally.

PEd: lolwoot.

[Sakura Hana]

why aren't people quicklynching marquis? ferserious

VOTE: marquis

What makes you think he should be voted over Varsoon or Silverwolf?

[Sakura Hana]

because he's scum
duh

why?

[Sakura Hana]

Wow hated? that's why you managed to become a magnet of votes! (joking i know what hated means).
I didn't know Hated/Loved were Normal roles.
As for everyone wondering about the wagon on Varsoon, and Thor's questioning that's Thor being Thor.
A Translation of Thor's intent for those that don't know him:
Thor likes early wagons run up as high as L-1 as soon as possible.
Such wagons can get interesting reactions from other people and the person being wagoned.
Since Varsoon should be a nullread at most for anyone and has the highest ammount of votes, he assumes the only reason someone wouldn't vote him is because of a townread or him, or a scumread on someone else. Hence his questioning.

Notice also that when i said i was townreading the people voting Varsoon some people jumped in to vote in. Me harassing people not voting him as possible scum partners was waiting to see who and how would cave in to pressure. choof became a scumread out of that, Gorky whatchamacallit became a townread instead, antihero im still not sure on, but if he's town he'll become obvious eventually. I agree with pisskop about the replace out being null, but i just can't find it in me to think that his feelings about not knowing what was going on weren't genuine.
Anyway, copper decides to vote Varsoon and leave, not even thoughts, not even reaction about the wagon being formed, so i'm going to go there now.

Unvote
Vote: copper

PEd: Good morning anti

[Sakura Hana]

Although i haven't been around for a while, is there still this thing about 1 non-normal role on normals and 2 non-normal roles on large normals?

[Sakura Hana]

why translate thor?

For people that are confused about the quickwagon on Varsoon, since i know it's thor being thor regardless of alignment.

[Sakura Hana]

The purpose of a flash wagon is to give the impression you are going to lynch a player and see how others react

And how does this fit in with saying absolutely no words when voting in the wagon or in interactions with the players in/out of the wagon?

I voted there to keep the momentum going after gorkinton and choof stopped it and I had no opinion on Varsoon's alignment at the time, nor was I going to say what I thought about the wagon

Your opinion is valuable, it's obvious you wouldn't have a legit opinion on Varsoon, but why did you avoid making any other comments? for what reason?

that it was a big reaction test, while it was going on as that would defeat it's purpose, what opinions did you have on the wagon?

Well obviously, but you could still have played it out like we did, that would at least tell me that you were legit interested in what people would say or do in response to the wagon. My opinion on the wagon is as i laid out on my latest post (Thor being thor, being good opportunity to reaction test, getting some reads that i explained outta it) I suggest you go and re-read it.

PEdit: I unvoted Varsoon to vote copper so at the very least he's not hammered yet.
PEdit2: Too many posts :<

[Sakura Hana]

Why are you arguing with Anti about semantics?

[Sakura Hana]

do you think im arguing with him or making a dumb joke

Hard to tell with your progression, my bad.

[Sakura Hana]

or maybe I confued one of House's posts with yours orz.

[Sakura Hana]

what do you think of copper other then your interest in his reactions right now

More like lack, thereof, normally i would expect a town player to get reactions instead of playing their pokerface, which is why i'm poking him.
Not saying scums dont get reactions, but he being careful and silent during the whole ordeal is driving me nuts.

[Sakura Hana]

Wow i've never seen an RQS done outside of newbie games, but what do you even plan on getting out of those questions that help you read someone's alignment?

- Why are you picking out my naked vote in particular?
- Why do you have a nullread on Choof?

Because I don't like naked votes.
Re-read my post again i told you what i found scummy and townie from him.
@elusive: Hated means they need 1 less vote to get lynched.

[Sakura Hana]

elusive: Number 4 is BS because this is a closed setup. It feels like you just copy/pasted it from a set of questions you asked in an open game.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, why were you insisting up a Silverwolf/Varsoon dichotomy/binary, especially when Silver only had 2 (if I can count) votes at the time?

I didn't actually count the votes, but i saw some people piling on silverwolf so i placed you both as the largest wagons or at least as the people being voted, no other reason.

[Sakura Hana]

Also SH why are you defending Silverwolf. Are you town reading him.

I was going to say i'm not defending him, rather im kind on the nullish with a bit scummy side for reasons i'm going to explain on my reply to Varsoon!

@Sakura: So... where are you now on that since the whole Silver wagon AND silver re-voted me?

I think it's more of a newb tell rather than anything, felt like he didn't know what was the best thing to do and decided to reapply the pressure when Thor called him out on it, i'd say null leaning scum. I'm more interested in what Mr Pokerface copper though, because the safer play was just to vote and not say anything nor engage with anything, even if he thought it was a reaction test, he could've simply played it out like i was doing.

[Sakura Hana]

Speaking of reads, im currenty town reading antihero due to his setup spec debate actually, his annoyance seems legit if he's town due to the hated claim (I have meta reasons for townreading him too but i'll leave that on the table for now as it'd be better to see who actually scumreads him).
I'm probably never going to move varsoon from the null pile unless there's a cop scan on him, i'll let others sort him out i always get his alignment wrong.
Marquis being wary of emotional outbursts from both of our sides, i'd like to think it's town since it's better for the game health overall.
Null leaning scum on elusive because he's done nothing other than ask an RQS that he himself agreed can't get any alignment relevant responses from and not doing really anything yet.
The others im not sure yet / haven't interacted enough / need more content.

Also strength of reads is directly proportional to how much i've interacted with each of them.

[Sakura Hana]

i always get his alignment wrong.

Oh wait actually i think the only game i got his alignment wrong was touhou upick 2 wasnt it... maybe im confusing it with someone else... meh whatever.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh yeah, and im thinking Gorkington's recklessness/carelessness is town.

[Sakura Hana]

What I saw was a bunch of naked votes and you selecting mine for as of yet unexplained or conflicting reasons, like:"I don't like naked votes", fair enough where's the pressure on Boon, Pisskop, Marquis and Antihero, or are you claiming a naked vote plus fluff filler like a "yo" is less scum indicative?

Except anti did explain his vote, he wanted me to love him (a.k.a he voted to go with the flow of my reaction test, so null).
pisskop voted with a "hi" or "yo" in this case, on top of that the vote happened before Thor's post or mine which is when i was actually reaction testing people and he did contribute to the whole debate, while you didn't.

then my questions about the setup spec are bad but antihero's are good, yeah okay majorly Nobel Prize winning points there.

Antihero was complaining about the existance of a Hated in a Normal game, that is a town reaction.
Your setup spec was "How to play this setup?" Sure i'm going to hack the website and see every role in play in this

closed

game to tell you how to play this setup. I think you're just being silly for the sake of being silly.

I have a townlean on silverwolf because there seems to be no narrative attempt from her, more like spontaneous posts based on what is happening and her emotional state which is something town is more likely to do.

Considering I get a lot of emotional outbursts as either alignment, i can tell you that emotion is not indicative of town, and Thor pointed out why it could be faked, or did you miss that too?

[Sakura Hana]

Plus are you trying to say this is a bad read from me and I am not very good or that this read is scum indicative?

No, I'm trying to see where you're coming from, because i like to take people's read progressions into account when forming reads and you being super reserved isn't helping.
But now that i see where your thought progression went from with the whole reaction test ordeal i can see why you decided to stay shut, my scumhunting method is different, and i will acknowledge that as the reason you're probably pinging me for the time being.

Moving on

Unvote
Vote: elusive

[Sakura Hana]

PS. Copper is town because he looked up choof's one complete game on here and saw that he was town and accurately described his meta. So copper reads town to me unless Many Extreme Things.

What the fricken fuck?

[Sakura Hana]

vote: gork

Are you gonna post a reason with that?

[Sakura Hana]

So let me get this straight, you think he's town because he put

effort

into looking into someone's amazing ammount of

one game

to determine that the person did an emotional outburst as town and ergo, must be town here?

[Sakura Hana]

It's a closed setup I get that part but it has some limits, yes? Like its prolly not possible for 12 vigs because of balance? That is answerable, yeah?

Literally no limits within the Normal Game wiki page and as long as the NRG says yes. Obviously balance, etc, etc, but that's pretty much up to each person's debate, while 12 vigs is an exageration yes, we dont have any flips or claims aside from the hated, trying to figure out the entire setup based on that and give advice is as silly as you asking for that sort of advice, picture everyone's vanilla and go from there until more information is availaible.

[Sakura Hana]

omgusing me but playing coy.

Wait what, are you talking about copper here?

[Sakura Hana]

No empty threat mate, the way you are approaching the game with those cookie cutter scumreads, you are scum because you post a smile, clearly buddying up, you are scum because you answered the question, clearly overexplaining, you are scum because you scumread me back and I am an easy lynch because I was being mean, clearly scum looking for an easy lynch, without any kind of analysis or thought about what the actual content of the posts is and what other different (and I think well explained) motivations I had is useless and dangerous town to leave around or scum looking for superficially scummy BS, either way you are not going to help me win.

Oh right, i almost forgot i was gonna comment on this and then completely forgot copper said it...
Welp now i feel like an idiot.

[Sakura Hana]

Despite fake claim, Thor also brings some good points about Varsoon not doing anything with the info that i missed.

Unvote
Vote: Varsoon

Still keeping a close eye on Elusive. Also i don't like the current votes on gork, one was made by omgusy arguments and the other was naked.

[Sakura Hana]

It was this:

Were you...planning to...y'know...start?
Or was the expectation that the rest of us would take you at your word and do the work for you?

If others mentioned it beforehand, then yeah i missed it.
The fakeclaim thing i was already leaning on for a while.

[Sakura Hana]

SAKURA i am not getting the same buddying experience from you that thor is apparently getting please fix this

Well EXCUSE me while i was hunting the people that i didnt like from the whole flashwagon situation first before I went over the whole "Varsoon is fake claiming" thing. You managed to convince me with #285

[Sakura Hana]

@Sakura - you missed it hard.

I blame my tunnel vision orz
I'll go back and reread and check where it was mentioned.

[Sakura Hana]

i mean... varsoon's response to the quickwagon isn't even really THAT great b/c "my wagon's as good a place to start" isn't followed up by... anything.

ok i see it now, sorry anti

[Sakura Hana]

So you sorta missed three posts - or read 2 of them with no context.

Looking back on it, I actually missed 4 posts (I replied to Gorki's post then forgot to read the others after making my reply since i was kind of in a hurry).

[Sakura Hana]

Jeesh im gone for the whole night and there's like 7 new pages.... ehh too lazy to go and read them all.

I'm not whining about the insane amount of posts, I'm complaining about the inanity of the majority of them. Considering 4 players have asked for replacement just 48h into the game should be an indication that what you are doing is not enjoyable for some.

yeah and 3 of those replace outs were because this game was too fast for them.

Concerning the game itself, D1 was moving down a useful path. Varsoon said he had the Hated modifier, but admitted to lying about that shortly afterwards.

You're forgetting a step, he only admitted to lying

after he was called out on it by Anti

Yeah, I should feel bad.
But I won't.
I'll stand by my play. Whatever.

If by play you mean sit there and do nothing... sureeeee

House's investment in there being a cop in the setup bothers me

What is that supposed to mean?...
*reads ISO*
Wait what? i don't get it, your whole ammount of 4 posts are.... worth nothing.

The reason I'm not voting Varsoon is not everyone in the game has posted yet or posted substantially.

Yet you are voting Flubber, thanks for confirming of my scumread on you. Flubber might be town pending a flip of you and/or Varsoon.
And you said this to Flubber:

What is your town vs. scum meta, Flubber? Why does it seem like you're so scummy all the time?

Like what the hell

Run of the mill roles might be countered.

From the sounds of it, Hated isn't a common role in these games, which lowers the likelihood of a counterclaim.

Rather it never appears on a Normal game because it's

not a whitelisted role

Hope i didnt miss anything important in the rest of the pages.

[Sakura Hana]

Why isn't otalia worth a vote?

Varsoon is more worthy of it right now.

[Sakura Hana]

Also what does that question have anything to do with my post?

[Sakura Hana]

Because I'm highly offended that you think theyre worth nothing

So tell me what they are worth then?

[Sakura Hana]

Here i'll show you your whole iso up to that point:

You fuckers blew this game up

^
No content

VOTE: otalia

why are people ignoring this

^
No explanation

Because I like to lynch scum

^
Still no explanation

House's investment in there being a cop in the setup bothers me

^
No idea where you're coming from.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm pretty sure otalia's scumtells are obvious

What scumtells?
They're obviously not obvious (lol) to me at least.

[Sakura Hana]

The majority of his iso is iioa about varsoon

Actually iioa, and a scumread on Varsoon, an "Currently i dig thor" whatever that means, and an opinion about verifying Varsoon's hated modifier (or rather verifying he doesn't have it).
Which is more than your single scumread in your whole ISO.

[Sakura Hana]

Both of you have almost nothing in your ISOs either way.

[Sakura Hana]

While I agree he's suspicious my issue with you is that you didn't have a problem voting for flubber but you want to "wait for more people to post content" before voting Varsoon. It's not even related to Varsoon himself to begin with.

[Sakura Hana]

From my Point of View you either:
A) Want more people to post content before you decide on who to vote... which doesnt make sense since you voted flubber.
B) Think Flubber's more scummy than Varsoon, in which case why people posting content would be relevant to you voting Varsoon?.

So what I think is you're unsure on busing Varsoon and want your scum partners to tell you what to do, which is why i think the vote on Flubber could potentially indicate Flubber being town, this is however pending on Varsoon's or your flip.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm not voting varsoon BC I don't want day to end when not everyone has posted.

Except that's not what you said, although that makes more sense than what you said.

[Sakura Hana]

@Varsoon: As far as I know, you've also fake claimed as scum and taken it back, tho that happened way back when i was hydra with DocP.

[Sakura Hana]

And yes you haven't done anything other than say i'm scum for being... inconsistent? that's really unlike you.

[Sakura Hana]

I mean it's really old meta, but doing it before certainly means you can do it again:

Well, because I am Roleblocker.

Well, it's not a matter of lying to town. My Role PM says that I am a roleblocker.
Is it possible we're both Roleblockers?

Yeah, I probably should.
I crumbed this, but I doubt it'll gain much credence.
I'm just vanilla town. I've been trying to expose Saki's PR claim as truthful or not, which is why I backed down when I found out that it was.

It’s that time. You guys have chosen a player to send to the lynching block. (Finally.)

You guys chose Varsoon. He turned out to be a

Mafia Roleblocker.

It is now Night 1.

Open 512 Game Link
PEd: @elusive: I play how I play and idc if you like it or not.

[Sakura Hana]

Well I guess technically he wasn't lying since he was scum roleblocker in that game, but you get the picture.

[Sakura Hana]

If you were my scumbuddy I'd be bussing the shit out of you.

That's what his partners are probably doing right now tbh.

[Sakura Hana]

So you're admitting his flip buries associatives tomorrow in wifom and should know any varsoon lynch is a gamble and are somehow okay with that.

Nope.
Read one of my first posts this day phase and you can see where i'm going with this.

[Sakura Hana]

does anyone else besides pisskop want me to replace out, because i will without argument if anyone says something.

No anti, dont break my heart!

[Sakura Hana]

pisskop: stop being a jerk, people are replacing out because the game's too fast not because anti's a jerk.

[Sakura Hana]

should I vote varsoon

Yes, he claimed hated and when he got heat from it he took it back.

[Sakura Hana]

His latest posts are making me dubt tho, because if he was scum he'd be lurking the hell out of this game

[Sakura Hana]

Flubber, Otolia, elusive are all good candidates for scum too.
I'm less certain on Flubber now that he's actually POSTING CONTENT, tho i called him out on that earlier.
Otolia is still doing nothing regardless and just wants to see Varsoon dead no matter what.
elusive is... odd, probably my weakest scumread of the 3 at this point.

Albert did absolutely nothing but here's a summary on what things have been going down as a summary:

We flashwagon Varsoon, and i reaction test people outta it.
Varsoon claims Hated, people start unvoting.
Anti calls him out on his fake claim because Hated isn't a Normal role.
Varsoon admits to lying <- This is the part where most people are going like (Would he admit to lying as scum?), if you ask my opinion yes he would, and he had no choice either way.
People start arguing about ^
People are taking stances, pisskop starts being a jerk to anti, people replace out due to game being too fast.
Discussion between me, flubber and Otolia about them doing nothing.
Flubber and Varsoon finally start making sense.
Here we are.

[Sakura Hana]

So now that you're here i wanna interact with you because you should be easy to sort out.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura if you haven't already sorted me out there's not much I can do to help you

I am waiting till you start producing content, shouldn't be too hard for you, now right?

[Sakura Hana]

he should be put at L-1 to test his claim.

Are you even reading.

[Sakura Hana]

he should be put at L-1 to test his claim.

Are you even reading.

What do you mean?

There is absolutely 100% no way he's hated, this was brought by anti already, and that's what made varsoon retract his claim

[Sakura Hana]

No there is a strong suspicion that he might not be hated. By putting at L-1, we'll know for sure. That's the difference between being persuaded and being convinced. Proof is always better than assumption.

what part of

mod confirmed hated isnt a Normal role

didn't you understand. That's why Varsoon came and admitted to lying, seriously, i don't know if you're being silly because scum or for the purpose of being silly, but i'm gonna go with the former since this has been your basis of doing literally nothing this day.

[Sakura Hana]

sakura i don't understand what your varsoon stance even is

Me neither:

His latest posts are making me dubt tho, because if he was scum he'd be lurking the hell out of this game

Do you think Varsoon/Otolia together makes any kind of sense Sakura?
Because I don't.

I agree with you on that.

[Sakura Hana]

Do you think Varsoon/Otolia together makes any kind of sense Sakura?
Because I don't.

I think it does

Why? what benefit does he gain from doing what he's doing.

[Sakura Hana]

if he was scum he'd be lurking the hell out of this game

What makes you think this?

Both games where i caught him as scum was because of that (on one of them he almost managed to mislynch me as town for playing the exact same way im playing this game, which is the one reason i think it's not like him to think im scum for being "inconsistent")

[Sakura Hana]

also insert contentless post so sakura cant read me because i dont want her to catch on im scum

Oh you.

[Sakura Hana]

notscience!

Why aren't you town hunting!
Why aren't you interacting with me!
Why aren't you doing anything instead of vote parking me for no reason without even forming a read on me.

[Sakura Hana]

Well it's kinda hard to question you on anything if you haven't even read the thread, I gave you a nice summary to get started up and you haven't even read that either apparently.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura and notscience are both scum.
/thread.

Oh snap, we gotta kill you tonight now

[Sakura Hana]

Stop buddying me sakura jfc.
You're lucky I have an appointment with Copper tonight or I'd get you instead.

What's wrong with buddying you? You don't like it?

[Sakura Hana]

Also i've come to the realization that my reaction test is starting to grow stale, specially since flubber decided to mess around with it.
Sigh...

[Sakura Hana]

Two of your scumreads are based on no content which isnt a scumtell and yo u should know that

Yeah but flubber was calling Otalia on lack of content, when back then he had even less content.

What is the motivation for c laiming it as either alignment

Survivalistic obviously.
My Otalia scumread has evolved to "He just wants to lynch varsoon to verify a claim already verified by the mod" and im just going

[Sakura Hana]

hypocrisy not a scumtell etc etc

Fun fact is that flubber started posting content after i called him out on that.

and survivalism isnt alignment indicative either

Well i can kinda agree on that, except most of what Varsoon's done since then is complain about him being an idiot, and calling me scum for being "inconsistent" which is

[Sakura Hana]

@Gorkington: How often have you played with notscience?

[Sakura Hana]

Also i think we've played once?

[Sakura Hana]

But you already said who your main was!
And i just want to look up that one game so i can figure out if you've seen my playstyle before.

[Sakura Hana]

Eh nevermind i guess it was someone else.

[Sakura Hana]

Oh god notty! switch back to your anime avatar!
loooooooooool
In all seriousness I'm having a hard time finding any reason to believe Varsoon's town, except for the fact that this doesn't look like the Varsoon from the Hiders game or THUpick2. Thing is I haven't played with scum Varsoon im months and since i caught him twice for the same reason, i'd believe he would fix something that easy to fix...

[Sakura Hana]

reread still incoming

You exist?

[Sakura Hana]

I want to have more confidence in Sakura Hana.

I want to have more confidence in me too!
Also who are you?

[Sakura Hana]

hahahaha
what a good joke
no one has ever made a snarky comment
to people who havent posted before

boy im glad you could share that contribution with us
:')

Apparently your reread has been incoming for 2 days, why do you still have nothing.

[Sakura Hana]

Will you have time for this game, im really tired of people replacing out due to it being too fast, it makes it annoying to find out their alignment, fortunately no one that i was interacting with has replaced out yet.... but still.

[Sakura Hana]

I have known droog to be a mid-low activity poster

That's certainly annoying u.u

[Sakura Hana]

Man someone has his ego way to big for their head.

[Sakura Hana]

No one's perfect, ever.
People like you piss me off.

[Sakura Hana]

You get pissed off too easily.

So what

[Sakura Hana]

So, that is an imperfection.

But that's okay.

.
.
.

[Sakura Hana]

Perhaps if you could stop throwing your rage, fake or not, town or not, around most of the games that you play, then you would be able to embrace greatness.

what the fuck
Are you deliberately trying to piss me off.

[Sakura Hana]

I'm just gonna ignore you for the rest of the game... for my own sanity and the health of this game.

[Sakura Hana]

"short"
lol, D1's already pretty long as it is.
What do you think of Flubber Otalia and Flames?

[Sakura Hana]

I keep forgetting that this is a large...
I guess part of it is because i haven't interacted with around half the playerlist yet. Or they just aren't doing anything.

[Sakura Hana]

How the hell is Otalia a newbie...

[Sakura Hana]

It sure is, as I can look in detail about who that particular player choose to interact with and why as opposed to just reading 10 pages of the thread every time I am able to check and forgetting what the first post was even about.

Yeah and then you ignore what every other player is talking about.

[Sakura Hana]

Also, we shouldn't forget to murder Formerfish if he lurks. Capiche?

Is that something meta related to formerfish or is just you simply disliking people lurking.

[Sakura Hana]

Can't you just put it in a single post? otherwise people are just going to complain about #AmmountOfPages again

[Sakura Hana]

wth i've never complained about post speed.
I just don't want more people replacing out because "Game too fast"

[Sakura Hana]

Do you think any of them did it
All because you gave varsoon voters town credit

Did you even read the whole post. This and 747 are giving me strawman vibes.

[Sakura Hana]

Haryana, please explain it again
If I got something wrong

Re: 747
In Plants vs Zombies Marquis and I kept going at each other to the point that I hurt his feelings with my scum hunting, because he changed his claim like 3-4 times or smth like that, and i couldn't believe he was town anymore, and we kept arguing, in the end we were both town.
In the Open game i forgot the number he mentioned I also got emotional to the point of yelling at people for not seeing the scumread i was seeing and ended up replacing out in frustration.
He said due to these 2 games he wants to ignore me until he can form a solid read on me, but it's hard for me to form reads with people unless I interact with them, so his method is going to hurt me being able to read him, but I can understand why he'd want such space so I gave it to him.

Re: The reaction test.
The reaction test wasn't only the people that jumped in immediately (like silverwolf and anti), but also how i kept harassing people and seeing who would cave in due to pressure and vote Varsoon or who would vote them for legit reasons, this is what happened with choof which gave me the scumread of the slot, anti joined in an awkward way so i didn't know at the time if he was town or scum but due to reasons i explain later on + meta i formed a townread on him.

[Sakura Hana]

Also if you cant pronounce my name just call me Sakura or Hana, either way works.

[Sakura Hana]

Why so you think floor
Is scum and not newb town?

Can you rephrase that i think you typo'd something there.

[Sakura Hana]

Unless you mean choof instead of floor.

[Sakura Hana]

I was wondering if you were talking about flubber or choof then flubber made no sense.
In either case he's newb yes, at the point i was thinking newb scum, then null, then newb scum again when he finally voted Varsoon.

[Sakura Hana]

So what do you think of choof and his replacement FuzzyLogic so far?

[Sakura Hana]

I still stand by my belief of:

town reading antihero due to his setup spec debate actually, his annoyance seems legit if he's town due to the hated claim

+ Meta.

[Sakura Hana]

Also i dont like how pisskop went from comparing anti to radiant cowbells to agreeing with Varsoon who he thinks is appeasing the town and for some reason quoting something he said from like 300 posts ago as soon as someone else jumped onto anti.

[Sakura Hana]

I already somewhat gave my thoughts at the time, but i didn't like it either.

[Sakura Hana]

Flubber, Otolia, elusive are all good candidates for scum too.

Maybe Flubber not so much anymore, but the other 2 have done nothing to make me think they might be town.
So you think that Scum elusive would imply Town Varsoon?
Would you think the opposite is true as well?
Would you see both Scum in the scenario you quoted?

[Sakura Hana]

copper's push on obvtown anti is not sitting well with me, specially with the argument "his scum game has improved".

[Sakura Hana]

Varsoon what the hell?

[Sakura Hana]

Like

and I'm a bad player.

This is the last thing i expected to ever see you say, do you want to destroy every last bit of respect i had for you.

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, I ain't here to win your respect
I'M HERE TO WIN GAMES, YAAAAAA

Yeah, like that one time you gave up and replaced out, you totally were doing that to win the game right?
Like the way im seeing it here you're doing the exact same thing without the replace out.

[Sakura Hana]

Hmm ok so you actually have something, I went back and checked, but im pretty sure you voted him before he unvoted you:

But yeah, Gork, I think people should consider play first and foremost, which is why votes like Marquis and Antihero's are not sitting well with me.
They are both votes that can be masked in arguments of setup speculation and role-reaction, rather than engagement with my rhetoric, votes, analysis, posts, etc.
It's a really nice place for scum to lay votes and get away with it and a really stupid place for town to build their arguments from,
and so yeah
VOTE: Antihero
I don't like how hardcore he pushed for that, because it feels like it's just trying to keep momentum on a wagon that people started to realize was stupid/a mislynch.

P-EDIT:
@Marquis: Then doubt me, but don't give me rope over my claim. If you're going to lynch me, do it over something worth a damn.

And this was also before you admitted to lying.
Then he unvoted you for:

the argument is pretty simple

varsoon claims hated --> hated isn't a normal role --> varsoon lied --> varsoon's lied BECAUSE he's scum

i backed out because of the arrow between the 3rd and 4th links. i've played w/ scum varsoon and town varsoon before and lying about being hated is something i could conceivably see him doing as town and actually admitting to lying is something that i really don't see him doing as scum.

i wouldn't put it COMPLETELY beyond the pale, but there's reasonable doubts now.

it wasn't just a little bitty thing that i was nitpicking at. it goes to the core of varsoon's alignment. lying about a role claim isn't just something you ignore and setup spec is part of how i scumhunt and part of what i do simply because i've run and reviewed so many games.

So uh, im rather wondering which is what made him revote you, if it was mine and Thor's arguments.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah, I was trying to win that game.

How do you win a game you replace out of...

[Sakura Hana]

And actually i didnt realize you had unvoted anti and were no longer voting anyone... what the hell?

[Sakura Hana]

he is a VI

wrt: Varsoon

sorry that was too funny.

[Sakura Hana]

I will be confirmed town tomorrow.
If I'm not, run me up for lynch.

I'm willing to let you go on this actually.

[Sakura Hana]

Unvote
Vote: Otolia

I swear to god if you're lying again im power lynching you tomorrow.

[Sakura Hana]

Lying about what ? And you grossly over-estimate your own ability to be coherent.

And I overestimated your ability to read.

[Sakura Hana]

I mean it's literally in the post above the one you quoted, unless of course you only pay attention to votes on you and you arent even paying attention to anything pertaining the person you're voting, which apparently was the only thing you were talking about this Day Phase to begin with.

[Sakura Hana]

Don't worry, i won't let Varsoon pull anything funny during the night

copper's push on obvtown anti is not sitting well with me, specially with the argument "his scum game has improved".

Interesting post, when has he become obv. town and how did you manage to translate tunneling in a way that doesn't seem genuine and being opportunistic on who he is pushing scum on to "he improved his scum game", which is not part of my scumread but rather my reply to House who seems like he is not willing to consider Anti scum "cause he would suck", misrep much?

He's been obvtown for a while, enough that i could make a town case on him, i probably mistook your case with your reply to House, so care to explain it again?

[Sakura Hana]

Oh wait I guess that's your case, i thought it was something else, he's not tunneling in a non-genuine way, nor is he being opportunistic, otherwise he wouldn't have jumped off the wagon to perform a re-analysis.

[Sakura Hana]

But if you're looking for opportunistic scum
v v

It looks a lot like a scum who doesnt want to give up what he thinks is low hanging fruit, frankly.

But we'll have plenty of time to get aquinted, I can see.

vote: Anti

^ ^
Look here.

[Sakura Hana]

@Sakura
Your initial reaction to my Anti scumread was that you stand by your initial read of Anti investigating the Varsoon roleclaim which is more likely to be Anti town, I already asked about why you think being aware of the setup and thus being the first to catch the lie is more likely to be a towntell so if you could answer that it would make me happy, and because of meta. The way you replied made me think you considered the possibility of Anti scum and decided you thought he was more likely to be town. Forward a few pages and now, without any meaningful comtribution from Anti you switched to having him as obv. town and apparently forgot about my initial case.

My case is that his tunnel on Varsoon may be fake because he starts with a very inflexible position, you are not hated so you must be scum, die, appeared to change his mind (at the time I thought he read my post about not only scum fakeclaiming and thought about it as well, but he later said he was scumreading my slot so I don't see why he would give particular weight to my thoughts) which now looks like leaving Varsoon alone because the wagon was stalling, only to jump up on it again when it was renewed by others, the Pisskop scumread is once again jumping on someone that Anti knows at least one player considers scummy cause I already said so myself, once again I thought we might be reading the game similarly but that scumread on my slot changed that, and is based on Pisskop being rude and unlikeable because he is using ad hominem and AtE's more than him being actually scummy. Finally he scumreads my slot when he thinks there is noone there to defend it, and considering he either sheeped or read at least 2 times (Varsoon arrow 3 to 4 and Pisskop) the game in the same way I did I find that read pretty opportunistic and he has yet to convince me he genuinely believed it.

No, you got it wrong, my townread on anti didn't come because of him investigating the claim, but was because of how annoyed he was about a Hated role existing specially since it isn't supposed to exist. Who benefits more from a player requiring less votes to be lynched Town/Scum? His frustration at the possibility of such a thing that would hurt town in the end is what gave me the town read on him, and his investigation managed to make Varsoon backtrack his claim, also later on he said that he hadn't seen varsoon lie and take it back like that as scum so he unvoted, to which I replied showing that he's perfectly capable of doing it as scum, and later on he eventually got back on him.

You're seriously scumhunting from a group voting your pet townread?

If my scumhunting was that limited i'd be voting you.

[Sakura Hana]

@Sakura
Ok I will re-read to see if I get the same townvibe from the frustration you claim is in these posts, I still don't get why your level of certainty on Anti apoeared to go up so much but it's not as big of a deal.

It never went "up" but coupled with meta it already was a pretty solid townread, like i literally can't see scum reacting in the way anti did to Varsoon's claim.
Scum would be going like "Ok so let's run him up to L-1 to verify it!" just like Mr. Otolia.

[Sakura Hana]

Thats pretty inflexible. Why, Id actually defend him a little, and know others woudl too.

Who, Otolia?

[Sakura Hana]

So what were you actually even referring to in that post.
PEdit: I'm not? You're the one who jumped on him opportunistically, regardless of my read on him that'd ping my alarm bells any time.

[Sakura Hana]

Also i dont like how pisskop went from comparing anti to radiant cowbells to agreeing with Varsoon who he thinks is appeasing the town and for some reason quoting something he said from like 300 posts ago as soon as someone else jumped onto anti.

It's right here and you haven't even responded to this yet.

[Sakura Hana]

Also I don't like how OkaPoka is suddenly following me to help me out. Gives me bad vibes because scum likes to buddy me a lot lately.
Why can't people just be freaking town, how many scum do we even have to deal with here.

[Sakura Hana]

IM FOLLOWING YOU?

NO

COME AND VOTE VARSOON WITH ME!

What can he even do if we let him live a night? he said he'd be confirmed town tomorrow right? And I already said i'd make sure he doesnt pull anything funny.

[Sakura Hana]

maybe he'll get his scumbuddy piss to claim cop and invest him.

That'd be quite suspicious, he said he'd be confirmed tomorrow, if someone else comes and claims a cop on him then i wouldn't trust it, if he has ways to confirm himself then he can go ahead and do that.
Basically he has to confirm himself on his own, not rely on someone to cop him, and if he doesnt then we'll powerlynch him then.

[Sakura Hana]

maybe he'll get his scumbuddy piss to claim cop and invest him.

That'd be quite suspicious, he said he'd be confirmed tomorrow, if someone else comes and claims a cop on him then i wouldn't trust it, if he has ways to confirm himself then he can go ahead and do that.
Basically he has to confirm himself on his own, not rely on someone to cop him, and if he doesnt then we'll powerlynch him then.

And you just got a townie lynch for free!
And you allowed mafia to get off the hook for a day!

CONGRATULATIONS!

I thought you were scumreading him?

[Sakura Hana]

Would you like a cookie for your brilliance?

But answer this:

Do you trust somebody who blatantly lied already?

It's Varsoon i can't trust anything related to Varsoon, but he's willing to be up on the chopping block tomorrow if he's not confirmed town, what difference does it makes to you if he dies today or tomorrow if according to you he's blatantly lying?

PEd: i thought i said i wouldn't let him pull anything funny during the night?

[Sakura Hana]

Wow whoever said this OkaPoka guy is fishing is right.
I'll just shut up and let him be.

[Sakura Hana]

Would you like a cookie for your brilliance?

But answer this:

Do you trust somebody who blatantly lied already?

It's Varsoon i can't trust anything related to Varsoon,

but he's willing to be up on the chopping block tomorrow if he's not confirmed town

, what difference does it makes to you if he dies today or tomorrow if according to you he's blatantly lying?

PEd: i thought i said i wouldn't let him pull anything funny during the night?

Ever learned what the word "but" means?

[Sakura Hana]

who are u suggesting to lynch?

I have multiple candidates on my scumreads from strong to weak

Otolia
pisskop
elusive
You
copper
Fuzzy

Take your pick

[Sakura Hana]

Really, i've already explained all of them but ok, i'll condense it for people unable to ISO like you.
Otolia: Not wanting to scumhunt outside of Varsoon and IIoA as pointed out by Flubber before, wanting to "confirm Varsoon's a hated" despite already being confirmed that he isn't.
pisskop: Lashing out at anti, making him look toxic just to end up voting him as soon as copper jumped onto him, thinking opportunistic scum atm.
elusive: too passive and careful about voting Varsoon back then when it mattered, rather jumping on Flubber and then doing nothing.
You: Role Fishing.
copper: Mostly coz i didnt like his reasoning for voting anti, but im doubting that read at this point.
Fuzzy: Left overs from choof, replacement hasnt made me feel any better but it's a stale read at this point.

[Sakura Hana]

I don't like 1/2 of those scumreads though.

Does that mean 1/2 as in half or as in 1 or 2.
Also which ones you dont like (besides obviously the one on you) and why?

[Sakura Hana]

So what do you think of my other scumreads? Disagree? Agree? Neutral? Why?

[Sakura Hana]

@Sakura
Ok I will re-read to see if I get the same townvibe from the frustration you claim is in these posts, I still don't get why your level of certainty on Anti apoeared to go up so much but it's not as big of a deal.

Also how did this go.

[Sakura Hana]

@Sakura
Ok I will re-read to see if I get the same townvibe from the frustration you claim is in these posts, I still don't get why your level of certainty on Anti apoeared to go up so much but it's not as big of a deal.

Also how did this go.

I don't see it, where is he frustrated? I see him explaining why he is "hammering" on it, because it buys you cheap towncred as a claim and is not likely to be accepted by the NRG, that looks like a logical and emotionless scumread to me.

But do you think scum would have tried to verify it was a fake claim in the way he did? Like it seemed to me he was annoyed with it because that would put town at a disadvantage.

[Sakura Hana]

Actually you have a point notty, he's attacking the people not their playstyle...

Unvote
Vote: Flames

[Sakura Hana]

Seriously...

Notscience is a bad player and an even worse mod. I think that he will get banned from modding in no time.

Do you want to respond to my point that you are the worst mod ever?

And your poor modding.

Stuff like this
Isn't even related to the game.
You're just trying to make notscience mad, i can't stand by and watch something like this happen

@Mod: Can we WOTC this guy, is this even allowed.

If the answer is no i want to run a policy lynch on this guy before he ends up hurting more people. And he has a high chance of flipping scum anyway.

[Sakura Hana]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p6380986
proof that Flames of disaster likes to piss people off as scum.

Ok that makes me even more confident.

[Sakura Hana]

notty couldn't you at least post those puppy pictures in spoilerboxes?

[Sakura Hana]

I still want to lynch Flames... SPECIALLY after what OkaPoka brought up about him trying to piss off players as scum.