New York 182 - Game Over

[notscience]

Hey varsoon

I have two options for you

Sheep me

or die

Because I'm about the only chance you'll get of living today, and as either alignment that's probably important to you

So

Sheep me

or die

[House]

He told you himself he is getting better at it.

I can say I'm getting better at finding scum, but are you going to sheep me on every wagon I vote?

[copper223]

If I do it would be because I'd believe you to be always right, which is unlikely, but this is not as much me asking you to join if you don't think Anti is scum, it's more about figuring out if you have what I comsider to be a valid reason to say he is town.

[ZZZX]

Because I'm about the only chance you'll get of living today, and as either alignment that's probably important to you

NS is town.

[Flubbernugget]

This game has a lot of opportunities for scum to hide, none of which I see you taking. I could scum read you if you'd like

"Scum lurks in this town", "Scum could be voting or they could not be", "Some scum could pile on Varsoon" etc etc

Statistically speaking the bigger the game are, the less scummy actions have consequences (the risk of being lynched in D1 is 1 out of # of players). Thus your talk about bussing, hiding and everything else while valid in limited environment where mistakes are paid swiftly isn't in this game. As such, I'm flagging you for being very general with your statements for which you risk nothing and you look like scumhunting. As the game progress, I'm expecting to see more specific cases with more thought-out motives behind your accusations.

Droog had three posts at the time of my read on him so you can calm your tits and stop trying to only

look

busy

[droog]

UNVOTE:

[House]

If I do it would be because I'd believe you to be always right, which is unlikely, but this is not as much me asking you to join if you don't think Anti is scum, it's more about figuring out if you have what I comsider to be a valid reason to say he is town.

Yeah, he sucks as scum and I've yet to see any games of his where he doesn't.

[Otolia]

Droog had three posts at the time of my read on him so you can calm your tits and stop trying to only look busy

Maybe you should take your she-male fetish in 62 if it's still exists, people there will be able to help you controlling those urges. Nonetheless it's a general comment on the way you behave not only with droog but with others too.

[Gorkington]

she-male fetish

Hm.

people there will be able to help you controlling those urges

Oh.

Hm.

[Sakura Hana]

copper's push on obvtown anti is not sitting well with me, specially with the argument "his scum game has improved".

[Marquis]

uh

[Otolia]

she-male fetish

Hm.

people there will be able to help you controlling those urges

Oh.

Hm.

You too got something you want to confess. Don't be afraid, I'm here for you sweety

[Varsoon]

Hey varsoon

I have two options for you

Sheep me

or die

Right on and stuff but like
Sakura and FoD are great wagons
and I'm a bad player.

What've you even got on FoD other than, y'know, the stuff I'm really trying to OMGUS him for?

[Gorkington]

I think I should be offended.
Maybe.
Hm.
I'll let you guys know if I figure it out.

Also, Varsoon don't you frikkin ignore me/ignore Thor asking you to pull up specifics of where you found Anti's switch on you to seem most like posturing.

[Sakura Hana]

Varsoon what the hell?

[Sakura Hana]

Like

and I'm a bad player.

This is the last thing i expected to ever see you say, do you want to destroy every last bit of respect i had for you.

[Varsoon]

Sakura, I ain't here to win your respect
I'M HERE TO WIN GAMES, YAAAAAA

I think I should be offended.
Maybe.
Hm.
I'll let you guys know if I figure it out.

Also, Varsoon don't you frikkin ignore me/ignore Thor asking you to pull up specifics of where you found Anti's switch on you to seem most like posturing.

I dunno, I couldn't care less, I hate being people's lap dog in games where they're all
"SHOW ME DA POST WHERE DAT HAPPENED"
I'm like, "Come on, dude, we're reading the same game. You can see it just as hard as me."

I'll be right back with a post from Anti that you guys will inevitably bitch at me for and disagree with because you're predictable. :3

[Sakura Hana]

Sakura, I ain't here to win your respect
I'M HERE TO WIN GAMES, YAAAAAA

Yeah, like that one time you gave up and replaced out, you totally were doing that to win the game right?
Like the way im seeing it here you're doing the exact same thing without the replace out.

[Gorkington]

Coulda said you just don't care about actually convincing us that Anti is scummy before instead of just ignoring us.

[Gorkington]

"I DONT WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND MY THOUGHT PROCESS BUT I EXPECT THEM TO TOWNREAD ME ARBITRARILY FOR NO REASON"
-Varsoon 2012
*fireworks*
pewpewpewpewbam.

[Gorkington]

Are you not voting anyone right now?
Jeze.
Jezeeeeeee.

This game.

[Varsoon]

Under spoilers, but this is the progression I'm talking about:
Warping from me to Silver (when I'm still pretty pertinent) without much being -said- there,
then he pokes around with the whole 'is hated normal' and being iffy about it before ABSOLUTELY losing his shit and using all-caps and

HUEG WORDS IN BOLD

Then he unvotes and votes pisskop for awhile
Then kinda meh-votes back to me like, "Oh, yeah, whatever, Varsoon, eh."

Like, in 285 he breaks down all the different angles but is so awkward and confbiased and falseflagging that he leaves no leeway for 'What if town'
It read to me as the Silverwolf wagon going nowhere and him coming back to my wagon trying to breathe lots of life into it for all the wrong reasons.
Like, somehow, the fact that hated isn't a normal role just sloooowly dinged and that's irrefutable evidence of scumminess despite literally everything else.

It's the -rhetoric- that bugs me. The rhetoric.

Spoiler:

VOTE: varsoon

do you love me now, sakura?

VOTE: silverwolf

is hated normal?

could have same issue with a doublevoter.

doublevoter is whitelisted and has precedence

hated is NOT whitelisted and has NEVER been used in any normal setup before

i'm not hammering on this because LOLSETUPSPEC. i'm hammering on this b/c hated is a claim that buys you pretty cheap towncred but is impossible to verify and in this case i'm having doubts that it's even possible

i don't buy the claim

VOTE: varsoon

I think people should consider play first and foremost,

as if roleclaims aren't part of "play."

you're playing a gambit and i'm not letting you get away with it. there's definitely a scum motivation for claiming hated and it's pretty simple. you claim hated and everyone doesn't lynch you because they believe you. and... oh look you even have a lylo clause so no one can justify policy lynching you before lylo.

thing is, in this case, that doesn't stack up with what i know about normals or how the normal review process works or the philosophy behind normals.

here's a quote from the wiki

Mechanics which are explicitly Non-Normal include:

Those affecting a role's alignment (no Cults).

Anything which significantly affects the core mechanic of majority/plurality lynches (no Kingmaker, for example).

Anything resolving with a random element, with the exception of missed night choices. It must be included in the public ruleset if you are resolving night choices in this way.
Post Restrictions (other than those included in the ruleset, such as "No quoting your Role PM").
Lying to the players, including False Role Reveals and "Scum Masons".
Night action redirection (no Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, or Redirector).
Returning "No Result" to Trackers who do not see their target go anywhere (in favor of "Your target did not visit anyone").
Alignments other than Mafia/Werewolf, Pro-Town, and Serial Killer (no Survivor, Lyncher, or Jester).
Hydra accounts.

i think it's fair to say that hated pretty significantly affects the core mechanic of majority lynches BECAUSE IT COMPLETELY REMOVES IT. plurality lynches are mostly used for speed games and bulge makes no allowances in the rule set for that so that's not really applicable here.

the spirit of having reviewers look over the set up for "normalcy" is that everyone is on the same page and everyone can go to the wiki and look up how a role is "normally" treated. with hated, there's a pretty big gray area in the lylo clause and there's not a well-defined, standard "way" you can go look up and see how it's treated. and hated's not the only role that's like this. look at the other ones:

Non-Sane Cop, Blank Vig, Non-Sane or Quack Doctor, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Mafia Mason, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector, Framer.

you see stuff like "redirector" and "bus driver" because it has weird role interactions and brings up questions like "are people TOLD they're bus driven/redirected?" and there's no standardized answer for that because it all varies based on how the mod needs to balance the games.

this kind of speculation could play a role in THEME games, but the NRG doesn't tolerate stuff like this.

the claim is fake and i don't believe it and i think you're scum.

@Marquis: Then doubt me, but don't give me rope over my claim. If you're going to lynch me, do it over something worth a damn.

well here, how's this?

you're shotgunning w/ the interactions w/ silverwolf. the wagon is sketchy but then silverwolf is awkward herself...? so who's scum, all of them?

doesnt doublevoter affect daystate in the same way?

DOUBLE VOTER IS CONFIRMED, PUBLIC, ALMOST NEVER HAS A LYLO CLAUSE, HAS BEEN USED BEFORE IN A NORMAL GAME AND IS

FUCKING WHITELISTED

HATED IS NONE OF THOSE THINGS

if you bring up this point again, i will scream

oh wow look at how much that beefy, scum-driven varsoon wagon just started

FUCKING THRIVING

after the hated claim.

mhm
mhm
mhm

so, you're still willing to vote me on the basis of your fake hated claim and the fact that i actually have reviewed and designed setups and know what the fuck i'm talking about.

explain that now.

holy shit lol

UNVOTE:

[Gorkington]

ok you actually got quotes ty
im just being mad because i havent eaten food today.
fuck.

[Varsoon]

"I DONT WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND MY THOUGHT PROCESS BUT I EXPECT THEM TO TOWNREAD ME ARBITRARILY FOR NO REASON"
-Varsoon 2012
*fireworks*
pewpewpewpewbam.

Are you not voting anyone right now?
Jeze.
Jezeeeeeee.

This game.

YEAH YOU'RE RIGHT
I do plenty to establish a basis, it's not my fault if people don't read it.
I hate the predictable game where people scumread for arbitrary reasons, ask for others to back up their positions, and even when they do, the scumreading people are too crossed-armed and confbiased to step off.

It's garbage.

I'm not voting or pushing anything hard for a reason, man. I don't want there to be a Varsoon-lead counterwagon. That shit would be dumb.

[Marquis]

sakura is thinking what i'm thinking and it's weird